Telling which truth to immigration
Mar 22nd 2007, 7:10 am
#17
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,253
Mar 22nd 2007, 7:31 am
#19
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,253
Mar 22nd 2007, 11:58 am
#20
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: Telling which truth to immigration
Indeed, truth is *always* subjective. My truth may not be the same as your truth. However, USCIS' truth trumps both! You should not be presenting a version of the truth, but the truth. I'm also old enough to know that "truth" and "fact" are often used interchangeably when they should be used conjunctively.
I used to think that Mr. Spock was right when he said, "It is not a lie to keep the truth to yourself." but the older I get, the less sure I am of that - we were all idealistic in the 60's. I think the question should be, "Which facts is she willing to disclose?" Think about it.
Ian
The question is; which aspect of truth should she be paying most attention to ?
Ian
Mar 22nd 2007, 3:25 pm
#21
Powder Maggot
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 4,452
Re: Telling which truth to immigration
WTF? You... I mean your friend, should tell the truth. Which usually goes along the lines of enjoying spending time in the US, vacation, blah, blah, visiting friends, etc... If she can't defocus from the chase enough to manage that, well, she'll have fun in the frying pan. Tracym has the right idea.
Mar 22nd 2007, 3:29 pm
#22
Powder Maggot
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 4,452
Re: Telling which truth to immigration
Nah, try this.... And would you know whether your watch is correct anyway? Indeed, was the standard chosen for our determination of time correct in the first place? What is time? Can you see it? Can you feel it? No, I don't have an f-ing clue what time it is and nor do you, Mr. Nice Friendly POE Guy!
Mar 23rd 2007, 7:26 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Telling which truth to immigration
"AdobePinon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] m...
>
>> Indeed, truth is *always* subjective. My truth may not be the same as
>> your truth. However, USCIS' truth trumps both! You should not be
>> presenting a version of the truth, but the truth. I'm also old enough
>> to know that "truth" and "fact" are often used interchangeably when
>> they should be used conjunctively.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to think that Mr. Spock was right when he said, "It is not a
>> lie to keep the truth to yourself." but the older I get, the less sure
>> I am of that - we were all idealistic in the 60's. I think the
>> question should be, "Which facts is she willing to disclose?" Think
>> about it.
>>
>> Ian
>
> WTF? You... I mean your friend, should tell the truth. Which usually
> goes along the lines of enjoying spending time in the US, vacation,
> blah, blah, visiting friends, etc... If she can't defocus from the chase
> enough to manage that, well, she'll have fun in the frying pan. Tracym
> has the right idea. AdobePinon
So can I ask you, do you it think best to be reluctant about ever
mentioning her long term aim of
wanting to settle in the U.S and start her own business there? JWBH
Indeed, truth is *always* subjective. My truth may not be the same as
your truth. However, USCIS' truth trumps both! You should not be
presenting a version of the truth, but the truth. I'm also old enough to
know that "truth" and "fact" are often used interchangeably when they
should be used conjunctively. Ian
At the risk of boring some of you rigid but making some sense of this; two
thousand years of buddhism and eight thousand years of hinduism have come to
a certain 'convention' in the use of language around this topic.
If Truth (capital T) represents the real world (i.e. Reality) then
understanding Truth can only be something we can aspire to.
Our 'sense of Reality' or our truth (small t) always falls short, by
definition, since as you say it is to some extent subjective.
So when you say, She should not be presenting a version of the Truth, it is
in fact impossible not to do so. Since that is all we can ever do. (unless
we are an enlightened buddha
) How much sincerity is in her version is
of course the central issue.
Although always saying 'tell the truth' is a lovely idea, purely as a
philosophical question ?
This is not to say that we should necessarily tell lies of course. But do
we in fact owe complete
'sincerity of intent' to those institutions whose aims will not always
*coincide* with
our best interests? JWBH
news:[email protected] m...
>
>> Indeed, truth is *always* subjective. My truth may not be the same as
>> your truth. However, USCIS' truth trumps both! You should not be
>> presenting a version of the truth, but the truth. I'm also old enough
>> to know that "truth" and "fact" are often used interchangeably when
>> they should be used conjunctively.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to think that Mr. Spock was right when he said, "It is not a
>> lie to keep the truth to yourself." but the older I get, the less sure
>> I am of that - we were all idealistic in the 60's. I think the
>> question should be, "Which facts is she willing to disclose?" Think
>> about it.
>>
>> Ian
>
> WTF? You... I mean your friend, should tell the truth. Which usually
> goes along the lines of enjoying spending time in the US, vacation,
> blah, blah, visiting friends, etc... If she can't defocus from the chase
> enough to manage that, well, she'll have fun in the frying pan. Tracym
> has the right idea. AdobePinon
So can I ask you, do you it think best to be reluctant about ever
mentioning her long term aim of
wanting to settle in the U.S and start her own business there? JWBH
Indeed, truth is *always* subjective. My truth may not be the same as
your truth. However, USCIS' truth trumps both! You should not be
presenting a version of the truth, but the truth. I'm also old enough to
know that "truth" and "fact" are often used interchangeably when they
should be used conjunctively. Ian
At the risk of boring some of you rigid but making some sense of this; two
thousand years of buddhism and eight thousand years of hinduism have come to
a certain 'convention' in the use of language around this topic.
If Truth (capital T) represents the real world (i.e. Reality) then
understanding Truth can only be something we can aspire to.
Our 'sense of Reality' or our truth (small t) always falls short, by
definition, since as you say it is to some extent subjective.
So when you say, She should not be presenting a version of the Truth, it is
in fact impossible not to do so. Since that is all we can ever do. (unless
we are an enlightened buddha
) How much sincerity is in her version isof course the central issue.
Although always saying 'tell the truth' is a lovely idea, purely as a
philosophical question ?
This is not to say that we should necessarily tell lies of course. But do
we in fact owe complete
'sincerity of intent' to those institutions whose aims will not always
*coincide* with
our best interests? JWBH
Mar 23rd 2007, 11:11 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Telling which truth to immigration
On Mar 23, 12:26 pm, "JWBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "AdobePinon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > WTF? You... I mean your friend, should tell the truth. Which usually
> > goes along the lines of enjoying spending time in the US, vacation,
> > blah, blah, visiting friends, etc... If she can't defocus from the chase
> > enough to manage that, well, she'll have fun in the frying pan. Tracym
> > has the right idea. AdobePinon
>
> So can I ask you, do you it think best to be reluctant about ever
> mentioning her long term aim of
> wanting to settle in the U.S and start her own business there? JWBH
You are insisting on making this vastly more complicated than it is.
Is your friend planning launching into a two-hour monologue when the
border officer says "how are you"? As has been explained repeatedly,
she should say as little as possible and not lie. If she is asked "do
you have a long-term aim of wanting to settle in the U.S and start
your own business here" then she should say "yes". If she's not asked
that question, why would she mention the subject?
> "AdobePinon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > WTF? You... I mean your friend, should tell the truth. Which usually
> > goes along the lines of enjoying spending time in the US, vacation,
> > blah, blah, visiting friends, etc... If she can't defocus from the chase
> > enough to manage that, well, she'll have fun in the frying pan. Tracym
> > has the right idea. AdobePinon
>
> So can I ask you, do you it think best to be reluctant about ever
> mentioning her long term aim of
> wanting to settle in the U.S and start her own business there? JWBH
You are insisting on making this vastly more complicated than it is.
Is your friend planning launching into a two-hour monologue when the
border officer says "how are you"? As has been explained repeatedly,
she should say as little as possible and not lie. If she is asked "do
you have a long-term aim of wanting to settle in the U.S and start
your own business here" then she should say "yes". If she's not asked
that question, why would she mention the subject?
Mar 23rd 2007, 1:51 pm
#25
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: Telling which truth to immigration
Ian
Mar 23rd 2007, 2:36 pm
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Telling which truth to immigration
On Mar 21, 5:08 pm, "JWBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> A friend in her late thirties wants to leave the U.K. and settle in L.A. in
> the U.S. She likes the L.A. weather and is thinking of marrying someone in
> L.A., but has not yet done so.
>
> She has a multiple entra visa, and likes to visit the U.S. for about six
> weeks at a time and return to the U.K. for a few weeks to be with her
> Mother, before returning again to the U.S.
>
> She finds the U.S. immigration questions very stressful since she does not
> really know what to tell them. She is not short of savings so she can
> properly support herself when in the U.S.
>
> She suspects if she says she is thinking of getting married to someone in
> the U.S., it may create a response that limits the amount of time she can
> spend on visits. Since it might be that they feel she is just looking for a
> husband with the intention of using it as a means to get residence in the
> U.S., which is not the case.
>
> In the longer term she would like to start her own business in the U.S., but
> feels she must spend more time in the U.S. to get her bearings and see what
> sort of business she would like to get involved in.
>
> What should she be telling the immigration authorities when she arrives in
> the U.S.? So as not to alienate them.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
i've personally witnessed a person (LAX) that just landed (same
flight), got turned around almost instantenously. this was approx. a
couple of decades ago, at the time it was relatively easier to go in
and out. but, he was detained and back to the next flight out.
shocking to watch something that real actually happened.
> A friend in her late thirties wants to leave the U.K. and settle in L.A. in
> the U.S. She likes the L.A. weather and is thinking of marrying someone in
> L.A., but has not yet done so.
>
> She has a multiple entra visa, and likes to visit the U.S. for about six
> weeks at a time and return to the U.K. for a few weeks to be with her
> Mother, before returning again to the U.S.
>
> She finds the U.S. immigration questions very stressful since she does not
> really know what to tell them. She is not short of savings so she can
> properly support herself when in the U.S.
>
> She suspects if she says she is thinking of getting married to someone in
> the U.S., it may create a response that limits the amount of time she can
> spend on visits. Since it might be that they feel she is just looking for a
> husband with the intention of using it as a means to get residence in the
> U.S., which is not the case.
>
> In the longer term she would like to start her own business in the U.S., but
> feels she must spend more time in the U.S. to get her bearings and see what
> sort of business she would like to get involved in.
>
> What should she be telling the immigration authorities when she arrives in
> the U.S.? So as not to alienate them.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
i've personally witnessed a person (LAX) that just landed (same
flight), got turned around almost instantenously. this was approx. a
couple of decades ago, at the time it was relatively easier to go in
and out. but, he was detained and back to the next flight out.
shocking to watch something that real actually happened.
Mar 23rd 2007, 5:19 pm
#27
Banned
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: San Francisco,USA.
Posts: 380
Re: Telling which truth to immigration
On Mar 21, 5:08 pm, "JWBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> A friend in her late thirties wants to leave the U.K. and settle in L.A. in
> the U.S. She likes the L.A. weather and is thinking of marrying someone in
> L.A., but has not yet done so.
>
> She has a multiple entra visa, and likes to visit the U.S. for about six
> weeks at a time and return to the U.K. for a few weeks to be with her
> Mother, before returning again to the U.S.
>
> She finds the U.S. immigration questions very stressful since she does not
> really know what to tell them. She is not short of savings so she can
> properly support herself when in the U.S.
>
> She suspects if she says she is thinking of getting married to someone in
> the U.S., it may create a response that limits the amount of time she can
> spend on visits. Since it might be that they feel she is just looking for a
> husband with the intention of using it as a means to get residence in the
> U.S., which is not the case.
>
> In the longer term she would like to start her own business in the U.S., but
> feels she must spend more time in the U.S. to get her bearings and see what
> sort of business she would like to get involved in.
>
> What should she be telling the immigration authorities when she arrives in
> the U.S.? So as not to alienate them.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
i've personally witnessed a person (LAX) that just landed (same
flight), got turned around almost instantenously. this was approx. a
couple of decades ago, at the time it was relatively easier to go in
and out. but, he was detained and back to the next flight out.
shocking to watch something that real actually happened.
> A friend in her late thirties wants to leave the U.K. and settle in L.A. in
> the U.S. She likes the L.A. weather and is thinking of marrying someone in
> L.A., but has not yet done so.
>
> She has a multiple entra visa, and likes to visit the U.S. for about six
> weeks at a time and return to the U.K. for a few weeks to be with her
> Mother, before returning again to the U.S.
>
> She finds the U.S. immigration questions very stressful since she does not
> really know what to tell them. She is not short of savings so she can
> properly support herself when in the U.S.
>
> She suspects if she says she is thinking of getting married to someone in
> the U.S., it may create a response that limits the amount of time she can
> spend on visits. Since it might be that they feel she is just looking for a
> husband with the intention of using it as a means to get residence in the
> U.S., which is not the case.
>
> In the longer term she would like to start her own business in the U.S., but
> feels she must spend more time in the U.S. to get her bearings and see what
> sort of business she would like to get involved in.
>
> What should she be telling the immigration authorities when she arrives in
> the U.S.? So as not to alienate them.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
i've personally witnessed a person (LAX) that just landed (same
flight), got turned around almost instantenously. this was approx. a
couple of decades ago, at the time it was relatively easier to go in
and out. but, he was detained and back to the next flight out.
shocking to watch something that real actually happened.
