Support E2 reform
Oct 12th 2008, 5:38 am
#46
Carmel Indiana
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 749
Re: Support E2 reform
You seem to find it the fault of others that they are not sympathetic to your cause. You've got an audience that you assume will be sympathetic but it appears it is not. Do you think it might be something in your presentation?
One problem is that you surround yourself with fellow sufferers, and this produces a very uncritical approach to forming your arguments.
1/ You infer that you are more worthy than "illegals".
2/ You infer that you are more worthy than family-sponsored immigrants.
3/ You claim that you are more worthy than those who gained a green card through employment.
4/ You claim that it is the fault of others that you did not research the visa properly.
There are arguments that can support your cause without alienating everyone. The e2reform.org site is actually quite good at this, and generally manages to avoid these traps.
But I'm afraid the performance in this this thread is nothing short of dire, and E2-ers come across as bitter and twisted.
One problem is that you surround yourself with fellow sufferers, and this produces a very uncritical approach to forming your arguments.
1/ You infer that you are more worthy than "illegals".
2/ You infer that you are more worthy than family-sponsored immigrants.
3/ You claim that you are more worthy than those who gained a green card through employment.
4/ You claim that it is the fault of others that you did not research the visa properly.
There are arguments that can support your cause without alienating everyone. The e2reform.org site is actually quite good at this, and generally manages to avoid these traps.
But I'm afraid the performance in this this thread is nothing short of dire, and E2-ers come across as bitter and twisted.
Does E2 have Duality of Intent?
Or a "jump on, then bitch like **** clause"
Oct 12th 2008, 5:56 am
#47
Carmel Indiana
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 749
Re: Support E2 reform
We came on E2 because it was that or nothing. Over time we realised that the limitations were discriminatory when viewed in comparison to other visas.
Oct 12th 2008, 10:14 am
#48
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: Support E2 reform
We came on E2 because it was that or nothing. Over time we realised that the limitations were discriminatory when viewed in comparison to other visas. We have learned much by experience that we were not aware of prior to becoming E2 investors, much of it from contact with other E2ers whose families have been/will be dessimated by their children aging out or who have suffered huge financial losses due to visa renewal denial.
...
These are two reasons why the E2 restrictions are discriminatory and need to be changed.
Many organizations are fighting on behalf of illegals and politicians are divided on the issue. No one is fighting for hard-working, English-speaking people who give so much and ask nothing.
We may not be fleeing a third-world country or seeking asylum, but we paid dearly for the privilege of living and working here. .
...
These are two reasons why the E2 restrictions are discriminatory and need to be changed.
Many organizations are fighting on behalf of illegals and politicians are divided on the issue. No one is fighting for hard-working, English-speaking people who give so much and ask nothing.
We may not be fleeing a third-world country or seeking asylum, but we paid dearly for the privilege of living and working here. .
As a constructive thought, you might want to clarify your thoughts. I have found your post to be confusing. For clarity sake, I edited out the extraneous parts. You are stating that the E-2 is a discriminatory visa in comparison to other other non-immigrant visas. You give two reasons:
1. Others are fighting on behalf of illegals. This does not reflect current discrimination. Rather, E-2's are favored in comparison to illegals. However, I think a fair argument can be made that if illegals are granted benefits, so should E-2's.
2. The comment about third world people seeking asylum. That position will drive people absolutely nuts. Even with immigration restriction, many people still hold dear to the Emma Lazarus poem. Also, asylum is tied into international conventions. Using asylees as evidence of discrmination really makes you look bad.
Good luck.
Oct 12th 2008, 11:03 am
#49
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: In a darkened room somewhere.............
Posts: 34,034
Re: Support E2 reform
I'm afraid I'm another one that fails to understand what you have to complain about. I understand that you are upset you or your children may have to leave the US after contributing to it for years, but as others have pointed out, you knew this before you went there and it was a risk you choose to take - nobody forced you. It's rather like me ordering a hamburger in a restaurant and then complaining when I don't get a steak instead.
You say you 'came on E2 because it was that or nothing' - so why not choose nothing and either stay in the UK or go elsewhere? Particularly as you had children and knew that there was a strong possibility they would be kicked out of the country when they turned 21 - hardly fair on them. I have children too and I wouldn't put them in that situation in the first place, and find it at best irresponsible that you and others have done.
I'm really sorry, I wish I could sympathise as I do understand how awful it must be for you but anybody on an E2 is well aware of the pitfalls of the visa and if they're not happy with it they can simply not go.
I also have to take issue with your comment that 'often, a whole family is granted green cards because one parent gains sponsorship through employment. That parent can leave the employment after a very short period and the family can stay permanently without having contributed anything'. If a family is granted green cards because of one parent getting sponsorship via a US company then it means that that parent has very specialist skills that are needed in the US and therefore WILL contribute significantly to the country.
The US is the hardest country in the world to get into, they do not want and need normal people and therefore have no obligation to accommodate them. Most people trying to immigrate to the US understand this fact.
I'm sorry if you consider my comments to be 'snide or downright offensive' from somebody 'lucky enough not to be in your situation' - but it's a situation you've put yourself in and therefore I see no cause for complaint.
I wish you the best of luck with the petition but hope you understand why I will not be signing it.
You say you 'came on E2 because it was that or nothing' - so why not choose nothing and either stay in the UK or go elsewhere? Particularly as you had children and knew that there was a strong possibility they would be kicked out of the country when they turned 21 - hardly fair on them. I have children too and I wouldn't put them in that situation in the first place, and find it at best irresponsible that you and others have done.
I'm really sorry, I wish I could sympathise as I do understand how awful it must be for you but anybody on an E2 is well aware of the pitfalls of the visa and if they're not happy with it they can simply not go.
I also have to take issue with your comment that 'often, a whole family is granted green cards because one parent gains sponsorship through employment. That parent can leave the employment after a very short period and the family can stay permanently without having contributed anything'. If a family is granted green cards because of one parent getting sponsorship via a US company then it means that that parent has very specialist skills that are needed in the US and therefore WILL contribute significantly to the country.
The US is the hardest country in the world to get into, they do not want and need normal people and therefore have no obligation to accommodate them. Most people trying to immigrate to the US understand this fact.
I'm sorry if you consider my comments to be 'snide or downright offensive' from somebody 'lucky enough not to be in your situation' - but it's a situation you've put yourself in and therefore I see no cause for complaint.
I wish you the best of luck with the petition but hope you understand why I will not be signing it.
Oct 12th 2008, 2:29 pm
#50
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 27
Re: Support E2 reform
why? because you want to? It's got nothing to do with it, it's what the host country wants, and this is a reciprocal thing after all...
And hard working English speaking Brits, bit off putting...and partly why no one cares is because you can't vote, just the way it is and there are far more issues that need reform to do with immigration than this.
And hard working English speaking Brits, bit off putting...and partly why no one cares is because you can't vote, just the way it is and there are far more issues that need reform to do with immigration than this.
Good grief, Bob! How is it possible for an immigrant to be more reciprocal of his host country's benevolence than to invest money and create employment?
The fact that we cannot vote is completely irrelevent. Our employees can vote and it's their livlihoods that are in jeopardy when renewal time comes around.
You're wrong when you say no one cares. Congresswoman Heather Wilson cared when she introduced HR231. The congresspeople who co-sponsored the bill care. The congressman who is going to keep the bill alive cares.
If more of our fellow Brits card, we'd get a lot further a lot faster.
Whowever, you've pretty much told us that the people on this forum don't care, and I find that very hurtful. We are fighting a good fight for good people - your fellow countrymen, and you thumb your noses at us.
How nice it would have been if some of you had offered to pass on the information about E2Reform.org to those E2ers they now, wished us luck and left it at that. That would have been the friendly, helful, supportive thing to do. That's all I asked and what I expected from this forum.
Instead, you have been offensive, rude and completely unhelpful.
Well, to all of you who've got yours and don't give a rat's arse about the rest of us - up yours.
Oct 12th 2008, 2:36 pm
#51
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 172
Re: Support E2 reform
You guys are obviously right when you say that everyone who enters into an E2 visa knew or should have known what they were getting into, no question. But, do you not think that it is slightly unfair that these 'contributors' to the US economy are good enough to provide jobs for US citizens and pay US taxes but not good enough to be allowed to become perm citizens themselves, afterall what are the H and L visa holders doing for the economy that is SO much better than the E2 holders ?????????????
The flip side i guess would be if the US gov were to allow E2 holders to reside permanently would that not make a mochary of the EB5 visa, afterall the E2 and EB5 are quite similar in principal ( in my opinion).
The flip side i guess would be if the US gov were to allow E2 holders to reside permanently would that not make a mochary of the EB5 visa, afterall the E2 and EB5 are quite similar in principal ( in my opinion).
Oct 12th 2008, 2:38 pm
#52
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: Support E2 reform
Instead, you have been offensive, rude and completely unhelpful.
Well, to all of you who've got yours and don't give a rat's arse about the rest of us - up yours.
Well, to all of you who've got yours and don't give a rat's arse about the rest of us - up yours.
Oct 12th 2008, 2:47 pm
#53
BE Site Lead
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 92,170
Re: Support E2 reform
You seem not to understand the visa being reciprocal, meaning the same stick is thrown at those using the equivalent to get into the UK...thought that was a pretty simple thing to grasp.
Your employees aren't bothered if you sell up, as someone else will run the business, it's the US, there's no job loyalty or hadn't you realised?
And in the grand scheme when I said people don't care, well they don't, because it doesn't bring votes and politicians don't like getting involved with immigration as people don't understand the system and thus generally giving them bad press.
You've been given plenty of advice. Just because you didn't hear what you wanted to hear does not make that any less true or helpful.
People do care and they do understand your situation, but really, it's not like this wasn't a likely outcome knowing the limitations of the visa, so there's really no one else to blame for it, especially when there is so much information so easily available for people. There are plenty of options out there, and plenty of immigration fights worth fighting, but that does not mean people will agree with them, nor suddenly think you were hard done by as you chose to come to the US when you had other options.
Your employees aren't bothered if you sell up, as someone else will run the business, it's the US, there's no job loyalty or hadn't you realised?
And in the grand scheme when I said people don't care, well they don't, because it doesn't bring votes and politicians don't like getting involved with immigration as people don't understand the system and thus generally giving them bad press.
You've been given plenty of advice. Just because you didn't hear what you wanted to hear does not make that any less true or helpful.
People do care and they do understand your situation, but really, it's not like this wasn't a likely outcome knowing the limitations of the visa, so there's really no one else to blame for it, especially when there is so much information so easily available for people. There are plenty of options out there, and plenty of immigration fights worth fighting, but that does not mean people will agree with them, nor suddenly think you were hard done by as you chose to come to the US when you had other options.
Good grief, Bob! How is it possible for an immigrant to be more reciprocal of his host country's benevolence than to invest money and create employment?
The fact that we cannot vote is completely irrelevent. Our employees can vote and it's their livlihoods that are in jeopardy when renewal time comes around.
You're wrong when you say no one cares. Congresswoman Heather Wilson cared when she introduced HR231. The congresspeople who co-sponsored the bill care. The congressman who is going to keep the bill alive cares.
If more of our fellow Brits card, we'd get a lot further a lot faster.
Whowever, you've pretty much told us that the people on this forum don't care, and I find that very hurtful. We are fighting a good fight for good people - your fellow countrymen, and you thumb your noses at us.
How nice it would have been if some of you had offered to pass on the information about E2Reform.org to those E2ers they now, wished us luck and left it at that. That would have been the friendly, helful, supportive thing to do. That's all I asked and what I expected from this forum.
Instead, you have been offensive, rude and completely unhelpful.
Well, to all of you who've got yours and don't give a rat's arse about the rest of us - up yours.
The fact that we cannot vote is completely irrelevent. Our employees can vote and it's their livlihoods that are in jeopardy when renewal time comes around.
You're wrong when you say no one cares. Congresswoman Heather Wilson cared when she introduced HR231. The congresspeople who co-sponsored the bill care. The congressman who is going to keep the bill alive cares.
If more of our fellow Brits card, we'd get a lot further a lot faster.
Whowever, you've pretty much told us that the people on this forum don't care, and I find that very hurtful. We are fighting a good fight for good people - your fellow countrymen, and you thumb your noses at us.
How nice it would have been if some of you had offered to pass on the information about E2Reform.org to those E2ers they now, wished us luck and left it at that. That would have been the friendly, helful, supportive thing to do. That's all I asked and what I expected from this forum.
Instead, you have been offensive, rude and completely unhelpful.
Well, to all of you who've got yours and don't give a rat's arse about the rest of us - up yours.
Oct 12th 2008, 2:48 pm
#54
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: Support E2 reform
You guys are obviously right when you say that everyone who enters into an E2 visa knew or should have known what they were getting into, no question. But, do you not think that it is slightly unfair that these 'contributors' to the US economy are good enough to provide jobs for US citizens and pay US taxes but not good enough to be allowed to become perm citizens themselves, afterall what are the H and L visa holders doing for the economy that is SO much better than the E2 holders ??????????
and are here at the request of US companies in the most part ...
The flip side i guess would be if the US gov were to allow E2 holders to reside permanently would that not make a mochary of the EB5 visa, afterall the E2 and EB5 are quite similar in principal ( in my opinion).
the same goes for H4 visa holder that cannot work ...
would be great if they could ..but they knew that before they came
and its accepted .. moaned about yes ..
Bu those are the rules
There could be lots of changes to suit every group ..
but the US goverment is not maling the rules to suit arrogant aliens ..
but to suit them ..as is their right ..
Oct 12th 2008, 2:50 pm
#55
BE Site Lead
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 92,170
Re: Support E2 reform
You guys are obviously right when you say that everyone who enters into an E2 visa knew or should have known what they were getting into, no question. But, do you not think that it is slightly unfair that these 'contributors' to the US economy are good enough to provide jobs for US citizens and pay US taxes but not good enough to be allowed to become perm citizens themselves, afterall what are the H and L visa holders doing for the economy that is SO much better than the E2 holders ?????????????
The flip side i guess would be if the US gov were to allow E2 holders to reside permanently would that not make a mochary of the EB5 visa, afterall the E2 and EB5 are quite similar in principal ( in my opinion).
The flip side i guess would be if the US gov were to allow E2 holders to reside permanently would that not make a mochary of the EB5 visa, afterall the E2 and EB5 are quite similar in principal ( in my opinion).
Why do you think all but one country don't allow the US to take part in the holiday workers visa?
It's a reciprocal deal, sure it's shit, but it's a big world out there, you don't have to go to Florida....and with the EB5 you have the option of saving a failing business somewhere.
Oct 13th 2008, 4:20 pm
#56
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 27
Re: Support E2 reform
Of course we were around and have worked tirelessly since then to raise awareness of the bill. The problem is, even the politicians don't understand how E2 works so are reluctant to co-sponsor it. Now, after all our hard work, they are starting to see that E2 investors are GOOD FOR AMERICA.
Oct 13th 2008, 4:37 pm
#57
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: Support E2 reform
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Of course we were around and have worked tirelessly since then to raise awareness of the bill. The problem is, even the politicians don't understand how E2 works so are reluctant to co-sponsor it. Now, after all our hard work, they are starting to see that E2 investors are GOOD FOR AMERICA.
Of course we were around and have worked tirelessly since then to raise awareness of the bill. The problem is, even the politicians don't understand how E2 works so are reluctant to co-sponsor it. Now, after all our hard work, they are starting to see that E2 investors are GOOD FOR AMERICA.
You ain't learning nothing are you ..
You have successfuly turned more people against you in a few days
than I ever thought possible ...
Oct 13th 2008, 4:39 pm
#58
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Support E2 reform
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Of course we were around and have worked tirelessly since then to raise awareness of the bill. The problem is, even the politicians don't understand how E2 works so are reluctant to co-sponsor it. Now, after all our hard work, they are starting to see that E2 investors are GOOD FOR AMERICA.
Of course we were around and have worked tirelessly since then to raise awareness of the bill. The problem is, even the politicians don't understand how E2 works so are reluctant to co-sponsor it. Now, after all our hard work, they are starting to see that E2 investors are GOOD FOR AMERICA.
Oct 13th 2008, 4:43 pm
#59
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 27
Re: Support E2 reform
[QUOTE=Ray;6867679]E-2 mainly employee minimum wage persons ..it most cases just a few ..some none .. H and L visa holder are highly paid employees of the highest order
and are here at the request of US companies in the most part ...
Where on earth do you get your information??? All of my employees earn over $50,000 a year with at least another $15,000 in tips on top! Those E2 businesses that do not create employment and/or do not follow their business plan will be denied renewal. My employees care very much about my visa renewal because, if I go to the UK and do not return, the business will collapse and they will be out of work in a town where unemployment is rising every day. Obviously, I would lose everything I have ever worked for, What makes you think someone will just come along and save a business that has simply closed it's doors because the owner has not returned? How naive can you be? In case you hadn't noticed, businesses are folding all over the country. America needs investors moe than ever before.
This forum discourages Brits from E2 investment and claims it is not good for families, but plenty of encouragement is out there.
The following is copied and pasted from the website of a company called Business Force.
The E2 Treaty Trader Investor visa is rapidly becoming the #1 business immigration option for aliens. For as little as a $50,000 investment into a going concern that saves or creates at least two American jobs an Alien can bring their entire family with them. As a further incentive the spouse of the alien investor can immediately qualify for a work permit. By any measure that is a pretty good deal. For Brits we’re talking about raising only 25,000 - 30,000 pounds. Many Brits have well over 100,000 pounds in equity in their property as a result of the recent property boom. Unlike the US, property prices in the UK peaked much later and the dip experienced now is very minor indeed. So Brits are in a remarkably strong financial position to take their bite out of the American Apple.
The key message to our clients is to keep a close eye on the prize of opportunity because they are every where.
If you are thinking about moving to the US, call us email us or send in your consultation questionnaire with your comments. We’ll work with you, to help you find the best path in to the US. We are helping clients with their Student visa plans, work permit needs and green card aspirations. it’s what we do. If you are thinking about marrying an American and can’t figure out whether to get married here or abroad then let us talk you through the pros and cons. If you have reached a complete dead end with your immigration plans, then we may have a breakthrough answer for you. Get in touch today and let’s see how we can help you.
Chris M. Ingram, LL.M., ESQ.
and are here at the request of US companies in the most part ...
Where on earth do you get your information??? All of my employees earn over $50,000 a year with at least another $15,000 in tips on top! Those E2 businesses that do not create employment and/or do not follow their business plan will be denied renewal. My employees care very much about my visa renewal because, if I go to the UK and do not return, the business will collapse and they will be out of work in a town where unemployment is rising every day. Obviously, I would lose everything I have ever worked for, What makes you think someone will just come along and save a business that has simply closed it's doors because the owner has not returned? How naive can you be? In case you hadn't noticed, businesses are folding all over the country. America needs investors moe than ever before.
This forum discourages Brits from E2 investment and claims it is not good for families, but plenty of encouragement is out there.
The following is copied and pasted from the website of a company called Business Force.
The E2 Treaty Trader Investor visa is rapidly becoming the #1 business immigration option for aliens. For as little as a $50,000 investment into a going concern that saves or creates at least two American jobs an Alien can bring their entire family with them. As a further incentive the spouse of the alien investor can immediately qualify for a work permit. By any measure that is a pretty good deal. For Brits we’re talking about raising only 25,000 - 30,000 pounds. Many Brits have well over 100,000 pounds in equity in their property as a result of the recent property boom. Unlike the US, property prices in the UK peaked much later and the dip experienced now is very minor indeed. So Brits are in a remarkably strong financial position to take their bite out of the American Apple.
The key message to our clients is to keep a close eye on the prize of opportunity because they are every where.
If you are thinking about moving to the US, call us email us or send in your consultation questionnaire with your comments. We’ll work with you, to help you find the best path in to the US. We are helping clients with their Student visa plans, work permit needs and green card aspirations. it’s what we do. If you are thinking about marrying an American and can’t figure out whether to get married here or abroad then let us talk you through the pros and cons. If you have reached a complete dead end with your immigration plans, then we may have a breakthrough answer for you. Get in touch today and let’s see how we can help you.
Chris M. Ingram, LL.M., ESQ.
Oct 13th 2008, 4:57 pm
#60
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Support E2 reform
Esq?
Since when has that been a qualiication.
I am not too sure where to start with the contradictions in your post.
http://www.breakthroughusa.co.uk/buying-a-business/
The Lawyers site quoted, he mentions B&B, well I know at least one owner who would disgree.
Since when has that been a qualiication.
I am not too sure where to start with the contradictions in your post.
http://www.breakthroughusa.co.uk/buying-a-business/
The Lawyers site quoted, he mentions B&B, well I know at least one owner who would disgree.