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Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Old Apr 4th 2008, 3:03 am
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by andoman View Post

So seriously if we can take a sneaky little shortcut, why not? I don't think I'm depriving anyone from life, liberty or happiness by doing this.


1. However you are considering inducing your girlfriend to break your country's law.

2. Furthermore, your actions you may well cause your girlfriend to be deprived of the life she deserves, that she may ultimately wish to lead, and potentially HER liberty and happiness.
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 3:07 am
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
I feel sorry for the girl......... does she even know what she is letting herself in for...
Who knows...lamb to the slaughter....
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 3:17 am
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by andoman View Post
I was wondering whether it would be possible to take advantage of these facts in order for my Irish girlfriend to be stay here 'legally' but still work for 6-9 months.
......................smaller companies won't notice. Normally under the VWP visa waiver program, she'd only be allowed to stay 90 days, and not work. But if she applied for the B-2 visitor visa, she could stay 6 months, AND be eligible to apply for extension. Obviously this does not grant work privileges. But if she can use the ITIN to get work, immigration wouldn't even know. Most importantly she would not be overstaying any visas.

Please comment on these ideas!
You clearly have a penchant for being devious and unscrupulous.
Perhaps you should "follow your calling" and actually get a job with the INS?
Or the nearest Ford dealership?
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 3:30 am
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by andoman View Post
Someone who bent the rules.
but who can evaluate my ideas from a practical standpoint.

Exploit the loopholes. Take some shortcuts. This is the American way.

So seriously if we can take a sneaky little shortcut, why not?
Hi:

I am amused. I'm pretty good at finding loopholes. That is what I often do in my practice.

How to put this? In tax law -- there is a difference between "evasion" and "avoidance." Your OP was pure "evasion" with almost no "avoidance" components. She wants to the J-1 to actual work in that job and to be with you? Fine, no problem with that.

A guiet joke among the immigration bar and agencies are the women accompanying an L-1A executive will either be L-2 if they are the legal wife, or L-1A executive assistant /L-1b "specialized knowledge" for the mistress. That mistress one is a stretch -- but it is done.
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 4:30 am
  #50  
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by andoman View Post
Alright this might not be the forum for me!
I think you might be right.
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 4:47 am
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

[QUOTE=KJ2007;6156384]If you care for your girlfriend, why would you risk the consequences? She could get caught. She could get banned. Those are pretty serious downfalls to your plan. [QUOTE]

I agree. why would you girlfriend risk doing this and maybe getting caught and being banned for reentry to the US for how many years? Or has that all changed now?

If she ever plans on returning in the future to be with you permanently it's not worth the risk.
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 5:06 am
  #52  
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Hi Andoman

I may be one of those people with a more "progressive" attitude as you put it. Given the current chaotic and arbitrary state of the US immigration and visa processing, it's thoroughly understandable if people are looking for loopholes. Millions of people living in the US have "illegal" status but work and pay their taxes regularly.

Being illegal is quite acceptable in many circles. Recently there was a letter in the New York Times from someone with a tax question regarding their "illegal" wife. The newspaper's attorney did not refuse to answer the question because it would be "helping someone who is illegal" He just answered the question without making a moral judgment, which is quite typical here as I am sure you know.

Unfortunately, however, this forum is not the place to put questions such as yours. The mods understandably don't want it to get a reputation as a place where you can get advice on anything that might be frowned upon by the US authorities. Some regular posters have worked hard to get to the US legally, which I applaud. But often, as a result, some don't like to see people cut corners.

Your plan sounds too complicated for me to give advice on, but good luck with it. As an alternative, and at the risk of getting into trouble myself, I would suggest she applies for a B2 or B1 in Dublin or Belfast and then applies for an extension just before the 6-month stay is up. Even if the stay is refused, I think she could remain while the decision on the extension was made, which could take months. There are ways of delaying things I guess. Dunno if this is a viable scenario to get the nine months all at once, just an idea.

You do not always need to file a tax return to get an ITIN - it depends what visa you are on. But I think you need to with a J1.
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 6:41 am
  #53  
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

If I said the things I want to say to the OP I would probably get banned.

I met my future wife, we travelled back and forth for several years, spent a lot of money communicating every day and then decided we wanted to get married and then we filled out the correct paperwork and had to be apart for a further year until I finally got my visa. I have since spent a tidy amount of our money filing more paperwork this side. Why should I like anyone else on this forum help you break the law?

People are looking at your post practically and giving you sound advice (legal). The advice though is seen by you to be unpractical as it doesn't fit your scheme of finding loopholes (illegal).
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 2:00 pm
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by andoman View Post
Now does anyone know about the exploit I've talked about?
No one here will help you... I think that's pretty obvious from the comments you've received so far. You can rant about the inequities of life, or how unfair the system is, or how corrupt our elected officials are... but, in the end, you want our help and we're unwilling to help you. Now, you decide on your best course of action from here... but don't expect us to help you.


sex slave trader? Guilty as charged.
Why would you willingly admit to a felony in an public forum? You should know that people have posted here and reported that they were questioned by immigration authorities based on information those authorities read in *this* forum. Contrary to rumor, immigration authorities do *not* have a sense of humor.

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Old Apr 4th 2008, 3:06 pm
  #55  
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

if you say shes all for it - have you shown her this thread so she knows the consequences should she go ahead and get caught? (i would bet not)
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 3:55 pm
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by andoman View Post
Since the American immigration system is fúcked up from the start, I thought why not take advantage. Exploit the loopholes. Take some shortcuts. This is the American way.
It's not this American's way. Your existence insults me and your words bring bile up my throat. Do what you want, you lazy bastard, someday it'll catch up with you, and I'll laugh.

P.S.
You rotten POS.

Last edited by another bloody yank; Apr 4th 2008 at 4:01 pm. Reason: added "Rotten POS"
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Old Apr 4th 2008, 5:21 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by andoman View Post
I was wondering whether it would be possible to take advantage of these facts in order for my Irish girlfriend to be stay here 'legally' but still work for 6-9 months.

1. The IRS is prohibited from talking to immigration USCIS.
2. Executive Order 41 prohibits NYC emergency services and the NYPD from disclosing immigrant status in most situations
3. We know a company who can sponsor her under the J-1 Exchange Visitor Trainee visa even tho they know, and we know she wouldnt want to work there.
4. If you get the J-1 visa, you can legally obtain a social security number.
5. Even though the USCIS would say she'd only be allowed to work at the trainee program, her SSN would be totally valid with the IRS. (Taking advantage of the two departments being disconnected).
6. So she should be able to use that SSN to get work here in NYC.
7. She also shouldn't have any problems coming home, because she wouldnt be overstaying any visa.

Let me explain my situation. I'm an American living in NYC. (I was born here). I have an Irish girlfriend [yes I know this is BRITISH expats, but forget about that for now]. She's living in Ireland and I'm here in NYC. She'd like to come here for about 6 or 9 months and have a 'work holiday' here, working in retail. Ya know like those programs they have in Australia. But she's not eligible for the work holiday programs because she's not a third year university student.

Here's a more illegal version of exploiting the communication barrier between IRS and immigration. The IRS issues something called an ITIN number. Basically it allows someone to file a tax return without a social security number. Except some people are using them to get employment 'the horror'. This doesn't work obviously for a big firm, but smaller companies won't notice. Normally under the VWP visa waiver program, she'd only be allowed to stay 90 days, and not work. But if she applied for the B-2 visitor visa, she could stay 6 months, AND be eligible to apply for extension. Obviously this does not grant work privileges. But if she can use the ITIN to get work, immigration wouldn't even know. Most importantly she would not be overstaying any visas.

Please comment on these ideas!
I believe that what a number of people are trying to say is that you'll be stunningly lucky to get any significant positive advice from this forum... Most of the guys on here spent a lot of time and money getting themselves and their loved ones over to the US using the available legal methods.

I wouldn't expect people to reply saying "Damn, what a cunning plan! I wish I'd thought of that rather than spending thousands of pounds to follow those silly laws and oh, all of the days seperated from my loved ones could have been saved if I had only had the foresight to see what you have now made so clear! After all, the INS couldn't find their own ass with both hands let alone a single illegal immigrant in the midst of the maze that is New York City!! I would be leading you astray if I suggested anything other than that your plan will work and that you will end the nine months living happily ever after!"... Nah, not going to happen.

I spent 18 months seperated from my wife in order that we could get the visa issues sorted out legally... Let your GF go back home and make the necessary arrangements to get her back legally. If the long distance thing works for you, she'll be back when the visa is obtained, if not (like several people who occupy these forums) unlucky.

The law can be a bitch and you will find many a flaming hoop placed in front of you, but, if you have any intention of her staying in the US the rules need to be obeyed.

If you're having a problem getting over the idea of her going back to home for 6-9 months... How will you manage if she's thrown out of the country for staying/working illegally and not allowed back for a decade?

Buy an international phone card and a web-cam each.
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Old Apr 5th 2008, 12:41 am
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by CitySimon View Post
I believe that what a number of people are trying to say is that you'll be stunningly lucky to get any significant positive advice from this forum... Most of the guys on here spent a lot of time and money getting themselves and their loved ones over to the US using the available legal methods.

I wouldn't expect people to reply saying "Damn, what a cunning plan! I wish I'd thought of that rather than spending thousands of pounds to follow those silly laws and oh, all of the days seperated from my loved ones could have been saved if I had only had the foresight to see what you have now made so clear! After all, the INS couldn't find their own ass with both hands let alone a single illegal immigrant in the midst of the maze that is New York City!! I would be leading you astray if I suggested anything other than that your plan will work and that you will end the nine months living happily ever after!"... Nah, not going to happen.

I spent 18 months seperated from my wife in order that we could get the visa issues sorted out legally...
Hi:

I usually don't make moral judgments here and try to make legal answers. However, the OP did offend my moral sensibilities by the seeming lack of care about his girlfriend.

A lot of immigration lawyers, including me, make part of our livings from "janitorial work" when schemes like the OP suggest become [from my Army days] a big FUBAR or CF. I've seen too many immigration tragedies resulting from a person being deeply in lust and confusing it with love.
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Old Apr 5th 2008, 1:49 am
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

Originally Posted by Folinskyinla View Post
Hi:

I usually don't make moral judgments here and try to make legal answers. However, the OP did offend my moral sensibilities by the seeming lack of care about his girlfriend..
Well, that's the issue isn't it?... The OP isn't risking anything and yet he is asking his Girlfriend to come to another country and break the law to stay with him... He needs to ask himself the question: Would he be willing to break the law to illegally stay in Ireland to stay with her? I doubt it. However, I'd be happy for him to prove all of us wrong.


Originally Posted by Folinskyinla View Post
A lot of immigration lawyers, including me, make part of our livings from "janitorial work" when schemes like the OP suggest become [from my Army days] a big FUBAR or CF. I've seen too many immigration tragedies resulting from a person being deeply in lust and confusing it with love.
I am not an immigration lawyer (although I play one on TV) and fully appreciate where you are coming from with that one... The number of people who think they are the first people ever to think they have found a cunning loophole in legal law allowing them to slip into the US of A unnoticed must be amazing... They will be found and are found and thrown out however, the only one risking anything in this issue is this muppets Girlfriend.

Not a nice situation at all!
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Old Apr 5th 2008, 1:53 am
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Default Re: Staying here 'legally', but working illegally NYC?

The system isn't screwed up just because you can't get your way.

Spoiled brat.
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