chatarra

Hi,

My US fiancee will shortly be submitting the I-129F application. I am
a UK citizen and have known her almost two years now. I have visited
her 5 times now using the visa waiver facility and have never had any
problems at immigration but having looked at the forms we need to fill
out, I see something that worries me.

Back in 1984 I worked for a UK company that wanted to send some of us
out to California for 3 months on secondment to a company that my
company was doing business with - they were a totally separate
company. My company applied for H1-H2 visas (I think) for us and mine
and another person's application was rejected on the grounds that we
did not qualify for that particular visa as neither of us had a
mathematics or computing science degree. My company then talked to
their US lawyers and resubmitted the applications, saying that we were
coming over for a temporary secondment to their subsiduary on the east
coast. This was accepted, as it was an inter-company secondment.
Instead of flying into San Francisco, our company arranged for us to
fly into New York and we were instructed to tell immigration that we
were transferring to the location of the subsiduary. We got through
immigration at JFK with no problems and next morning flew from JFK to
Monterey via Salt Lake City. 3 months later we flew back out of San
Francisco.

That was the last time I visited the US until November of 2002.

It looks to me that my company was guilty of visa fraud (and they were
a very big, well known computer manufacturer so they weren't a bunch
of cowboys). So I have a few questions if anyone here could answer
them please...

1) The company committed the visa fraud - we were told it was all ok,
that their immigration lawyers in the US had sorted out the problem.
We never saw any of the paperwork as I recall, could I therefore be
classed as guilty of visa fraud due to the actions of my company? I
wasn't a director, just a techie.

2) Should I mention that visit on the application forms?

3) If I mention it but just supply the dates and state it was on
business, will there be any reason for them to question that trip?

4) Could my K1 application be refused due to the events of 1984?

Sorry for all the questions but although I'm tempted to forget I ever
came to the US in 1984 I don't want to risk lying on the forms and
possibly cause problems for the K1 application..

Thank you for any advice you can give.

FlyergirlUK

My only advice is to never lie on these forms, give any details that are asked for. If further details are requested then supply them. If you have done nothing wrong then there is nothing to fear.

Rete

where was the fraud? I don't see it. You were here on a temporary visa, not an H-1B, and left within the time frame given for your visa. So, again, where is the fraud?

Rete

vade

First of all, no one comes in through port of entry without some form of Visa or Visa waiver documentation. I feel there had never been any fraud involved. You are justifiably concerned because you are uninformed about the process or visa that was issued.
After your H1B H2 denial, your company probably submited an application for L1 visa, which is what you probably gained entry.
There should have been a I-94 card and arrival stamp in your passport to document entry.
So, relax there is most definately no fraud involved. Also, K1 (DS-156) application, ask if you have been denied visa before, say yes H1B and when. (DS 230) ask dates of US entry, list your entry dates and if visa type is unknown, then write unknown.
Be honest and you will be fine.
Regards.

chatarra

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:15:26 +0000, vade
<member20726@british_expats.com> wrote:

    >First of all, no one comes in through port of entry without some form of
    >Visa or Visa waiver documentation. I feel there had never been any fraud
    >involved. You are justifiably concerned because you are uninformed about
    >the process or visa that was issued.
    >After your H1B H2 denial, your
    >company probably submited an application for L1 visa, which is what you
    >probably gained entry.
    >There should have been a I-94 card and arrival
    >stamp in your passport to document entry.
    >So, relax there is most
    >definately no fraud involved. Also, K1 (DS-156) application, ask if you
    >have been denied visa before, say yes H1B and when. (DS 230) ask dates
    >of US entry, list your entry dates and if visa type is unknown, then
    >write unknown.
    >Be honest and you will be fine.
    >Regards.


That is excellent advice, thank you and thank all who have responded.
My concern about a possible fraud was that the company I worked for or
rather their US lawyers, deliberatly misled the authorities in order
that I and my colleague would be granted a visa. No, I did not
overstay (I think the visa I did get was valid for a year); I was just
concerned that it could be interpreted by the authorities as visa
fraud and that as I was the visitor it would be my fraud.

I will do what you suggest; putdown the denial of visa and explain if
asked.

Thanks again to you all.

lairdside

I think he's concerned about possible misrepresentation.

The company may have claimed that they were transferring him to "a parent company, a branch, a subsidiary, or an affiliate of themselves" in order to meet the conditions for an L-1. (If in fact this is what they applied for, we do not know for sure).

He appears concerned that the company involved was not in fact a subsiduary but a client of his company.

Personally I feel that it is perfectly possible that no illegal act has taken place. There are four tests to determine if the U.S. and foreign entities are of the same qualifying organization: first, that business is executed in the U.S. during the entire stay of the L-1 Visa recipient; second, that business is transacted in another country while the L-1 Visa recipient is working in the U.S.; third, that there is more than just an agent's office in either the U.S. or abroad; fourth, that there is evidence of a systematic and continuous flow of goods or services within the context of a structured business with a business plan.

He could have been transferred to the subsiduary office of his existing company and then .contracted to the client's company as an employee of his own company to perform the work.

Not usual.

lairdside

Ok.

Who paid your salary during your period of employment in the US?

Regardless of location who was responsible for administering your contract?

Who you perform duties for and who your employer is considered to be are often different concerns.

Mtravelkay

Rete wrote:

    > where was the fraud? I don't see it. You were here on a temporary
    > visa, not an H-1B, and left within the time frame given for your visa.
    > So, again, where is the fraud?


It looks like the company wanted him to work in the US and applied for a
visa. The visa was denied and the company sent him to work in the US
anyway, under a different visa. However, it sounds like he was told to
lie at immigration in NY and he did just that. The lie was to tell
immigration that he was transferring to the US (L-1??) when he wasn't
really being transferred. If he knew he wasn't being transferred, and he
told immigration he was, then to me it would seem that the offense was
committed by him.

chatarra

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:18:41 +0000, lairdside
<member5824@british_expats.com> wrote:

.
    >Ok.
    >Who paid your salary during your period of employment in the US?
    >Regardless of location who was responsible for administering your
    >contract?
    >Who you perform duties for and who your employer is
    >considered to be are often different concerns.

The UK company paid my salary and all my expenses (whether my company
then invoiced the US company I have no idea). I and the others were
there just to help out get something finished that was running very
late and that my company needed. At no time was I ever employed by the
US company.

chatarra

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:23:35 GMT, mtravelkay <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Rete wrote:
    >> where was the fraud? I don't see it. You were here on a temporary
    >> visa, not an H-1B, and left within the time frame given for your visa.
    >> So, again, where is the fraud?
    >It looks like the company wanted him to work in the US and applied for a
    >visa. The visa was denied and the company sent him to work in the US
    >anyway, under a different visa. However, it sounds like he was told to
    >lie at immigration in NY and he did just that. The lie was to tell
    >immigration that he was transferring to the US (L-1??) when he wasn't
    >really being transferred. If he knew he wasn't being transferred, and he
    >told immigration he was, then to me it would seem that the offense was
    >committed by him.

The visits were intended to be temporary, there was never any intent
to work in the US i.e. take up a job in the US and be administered and
paid by a US company. We were merely sent to help out for a few weeks
as my company needed the product being produced by the US company,
that was very late by this time. But you are correct, it is the fact
that we were told to lie to immigration that concerns me - we were
never meant to cheat the system i.e. gain an advantage, it was merely
to bend the rules as you can see from the fact we only stayed our
alloted time of 3 months. All this may be moot as it may not become
an issue but there is concern all the same so perhaps I may need a
lawyer.

lairdside

Did you lie? I'm not sure that you did.

You transferred to the US subsiduary of your company (abeit physically for 1 day only), however the parent company employed you for the entire duration of your stay.

They then sent you on an assignment, in your capacity as a representative of that company, to perform services for a client.

Like Rete, I personally don't see the fraud.

But please address your concerns with an immigration attorney for a definitive and qualified answer.