garyg2018

Hello,

I am a bit confused if I should apply for a Visa or ESTA, in 2010 I was arrested for a copyright offence. I was taken to court by a company for using their audio/visual on my website and was found guilty. I was given a 6-month sentence in 2012 (the trial was complex and took 2 years) however it was suspended for 2 years and I did community service. I never went to prison.

In 2012 I also purchased an item that was found to be stolen, I got a £1000 fine and had to give up the item, of course, I did not know the item was stolen and was very angry at the time. I paid the fine and moved on.

Since then I have had no interactions with the police, never even pulled over while driving, nothing.

I don't know if my arrests mean I need to get a Visa? It says moral turpitude but I don't think my arrests come under that. But I don't know.

I was thinking about just applying for a Visa, but I keep reading people saying just apply for an ESTA. I did start a visa application, but I've not completed it or arranged a meeting with the embassy.

Looking for some advice from someone who knows more about this than me!

Thank you

civilservant

What exactly where you convicted of both times? The specific offence - Act and Section if you can. This makes a difference.

If the second was actually a conviction for handling stolen goods, this is almost the definition of a CIMT.

How did you avoid prison the second time? It seems to me that the suspended sentence must have still had some time to run when the other offence occurred.

garyg2018

The first was a breach of copyright, the second I honestly can't remember. I've tried searching emails for paperwork but cannot find a thing. I have applied for a police access report to see what they have down. I guess until that, I won't know for sure.

I just know the police took the item, I went to court for purchasing it, the judge fined me £1000 which I paid and the case was closed. I can only assume it was "handling stolen goods", I don't really see what else they'd put it down as.

The second offence took place while the first offence was ongoing, therefore I technically had no previous while it went through. That being said, the second offence was probably 2011, not 2012. As the first offence ended Jan 2012.

civilservant

I personally would not even bother with the VWP in this situation.

Section 22(1) Theft Act 1968

If this is indeed what you were charged and convicted of, it's a stone cold CIMT IMO. The maximum sentence is 14 years!

garyg2018

So I guess on the other hand, how likely am I to get a visa? Should I just save my money and find another destination?

I'll have to confirm the exact offence before proceeding.

civilservant

After 7 years without any interaction with the law, I think you would have a decent shot at a waiver. Do not, however, book anything until you have the visa in hand. Waivers can take 6 months+ after the interview if you are recommended for one.

garyg2018

Okay, thanks! Yeh, I read people saying they lie on the esta, but I want to do things properly and if I get rejected I get rejected. I'd rather do it properly and enjoy a holiday, rather than sit on a plane worrying if I'll even get in!

I have no plans to book until I have permission. May I ask how I should apply for the Waiver? Or is that just the same process as a Visa? Or do you mean an ESTA?

civilservant

You don't - the officer at the B2 interview will either recommend you for one, or he won't. If he doesn't, and he refuses the visa, then you have your answer.

garyg2018

Got it, I'll continue the process then thanks for your help!

shiversaint

The copyright case is an interesting one - it's not that easy to get done criminally for this so I would think it falls into the realms of fraud. Was it this part of the law you were caught on?

If so, I think that falls foul of CIMT too as it's fraudulent behaviour.

Don't bother with the ESTA. They are also non violent crimes and not drug related, so after 7 years, I agree with civilservant, you should be recommended for a waiver. Bear in mind it can take up to 6 months to receive, and there's no way to know exactly when you'll get it.

garyg2018

It began as a fraud case, but they downgraded it to copyright, which at the time they assured me has fewer consequences than fraud. Hopefully, that's true, but I know 100% that it was not fraud, as the conviction was changed from fraud to copyright on the initial charge (after the interview). I am going over the papers now to try and find the exact situation, but I know for sure it wasn't fraud.

garyg2018

For anyone interested, the copyright was Section 107 copyright. That took a lot of reading to find

And for the record, regarding the stolen item, I had no idea the item was stolen when I bought it otherwise I'd not have bought it! I will post back once I find out what charge they gave me.

shiversaint

It doesn't need to be actual fraud to be deemed as a fraudulent act, as far as I'm aware.

One way of defining a CIMT is something that is shocking or generally extremely distasteful to society - handling stolen goods definitely falls into that category. Making money off of someone else's work, whilst maybe not charged with fraud, could be perceived as something roughly equivalent to fraudulent behaviour, which the INA is pretty firm on being a really bad thing.

Section 107 is fairly obvious - which specific point? Should say something like (2)(a) or (2)(A)(b)(ii). Fairly important because this will distuingish whether the crime had intent or malice etc which could be the defining line.

Specificity is important here as I'm sure you are now aware. Will await to see what you were convicted of in both cases as it could fall either way, although on the face of it I still think it's straight for a visa.

garyg2018

The first offence was "COMMUNICATING COPYRIGHT WORK TO THE PUBLIC IN THE COURSE OF A BUSINESS Contrary to s107(2A) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988"

Basically, because I infringed copyright and we sold our product for a profit I was taken to court. Throughout, I never denied doing what I did, I just had no idea I was breaching copyright.

Regarding the second offence, I'll have to wait for my police report because I honestly can't remember, I might not have been done for the stolen item (it was a car part), I was actually pulled over for window tints, and then told one of my tyres was also below the legal limit. Because I would have got 9 points (already had 3) I would have lost my licence which I needed for work, therefore I was fined £1000 and given 6 points. I may not actually have been charged for the car item (which I purchase online and had no idea was stolen). I really need to get my report and see. I've already applied for it online. I'd not even thought about any of this until recently, as I decided I want to visit America on holiday with my partner.

Unfortunately, I can't find any emails with regards to the second case, so I can't offer any more than that at the moment.

I think I'll go down the visa route with the first offence. If I did an ESTA I'd still be worried if I were to be accepted.

civilservant

Sounds like a motoring offense.