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Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Old Feb 2nd 2020, 8:48 pm
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Default Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Hi All,
I am going to Florida, October 21. I have had a look at the Esta questions and don't believe I have any convictions that are CIMT's, list below. What do you all reckon?

Thank you in advance.

Caution for Common assault: 2006 aged 15
Caution for knowingly being carried in a veichle taken without owners consent 2010
Affray, result was withdrawn by prosecution and bound over in the sum of £500 for 12 months. 2011
Caution for being drunk and disorderly. 2013.

I'm 29 now and will be 31 when I go.

Thank you,

Last edited by CH90; Feb 2nd 2020 at 8:56 pm.
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Old Feb 2nd 2020, 8:56 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Sorry, the common Assault also ended with a police caution
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Old Feb 2nd 2020, 9:07 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

In my layman's opinion, none of those offences are CIMT.
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Old Feb 2nd 2020, 9:40 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Thank you. Would the knowingly being carried in a stolen vehicle not fall under the below. (copy taken from the link) Attempts, Aiding and Abetting, Accessories, and Conspiracy:

(1) (U) The following types of crimes are also considered to be crimes involving moral turpitude:

(a) (U) An attempt to commit a crime involving moral turpitude;

(b) (U) Aiding and abetting in the commission of a crime involving moral turpitude;

(c) (U) Being an accessory (before or after the fact) in the commission of a crime involving moral turpitude; or

(d) (U) Taking part in a conspiracy (or attempting to take part in a conspiracy) to commit a crime involving moral turpitude.

(2) (U) Conversely, where an alien has been convicted of, or admits having committed the essential elements of, a criminal attempt, or a criminal act of aiding and abetting, accessory before or after the fact, or conspiracy, and the underlying crime is not deemed to involve moral turpitude, then INA 212(a)(2)(A)(i)(I) would not be applicable.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 1:51 am
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Originally Posted by CH90
Thank you. Would the knowingly being carried in a stolen vehicle not fall under the below. (copy taken from the link) Attempts, Aiding and Abetting, Accessories, and Conspiracy:

(1) (U) The following types of crimes are also considered to be crimes involving moral turpitude:

(a) (U) An attempt to commit a crime involving moral turpitude;

(b) (U) Aiding and abetting in the commission of a crime involving moral turpitude;

(c) (U) Being an accessory (before or after the fact) in the commission of a crime involving moral turpitude; or

(d) (U) Taking part in a conspiracy (or attempting to take part in a conspiracy) to commit a crime involving moral turpitude.

(2) (U) Conversely, where an alien has been convicted of, or admits having committed the essential elements of, a criminal attempt, or a criminal act of aiding and abetting, accessory before or after the fact, or conspiracy, and the underlying crime is not deemed to involve moral turpitude, then INA 212(a)(2)(A)(i)(I) would not be applicable.
I think that the "knowingly being carried in a vehicle taken without owners consent" falls under items (b) Aiding and abetting, and/or (c) Being an accessory, in your list.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 5:15 am
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

That's what I thought. However, is TWOC considered a CIMT? The issue is that I have never been done for drugs, nor have I seriously injured anyone or seriously damaged anyone's property, so answering no to both of the esta questions would be the truth.

Last edited by CH90; Feb 3rd 2020 at 7:08 am.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 12:06 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Consult with an immigration attorney.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 1:32 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

I don't think the stolen car thing is really aiding and abetting, but is probably being an accessory, and theft of a car would be CIMT. I would apply for a visa. Doubt an attorney can tell you much else.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 1:44 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Originally Posted by shiversaint
I don't think the stolen car thing is really aiding and abetting, ....
Abet: encourage or assist (someone) to do something wrong, in particular, to commit a crime or other offense.

"Go on, do it! It'll be a laugh!" .... If you're with someone at the time a car is stolen, and ride away in it with them, I can't imagine how that wouldn't lead to a charge for "abetting".
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 2:11 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

However, is TWOC considered a CIMT?
It's a theft offense, so without question it's a CIMT.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 2:18 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Thanks for the input. The offence was being carried in a veichle taken without owners consent. Not theft of said vehicle.

Think I'll just play it safe. The reason I asked is because the answers to the esta questions would be no.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 2:22 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

I understand, but that wasn't the question you asked. I quoted the question I was responding too.

I think you need a visa to be on the safe side, so go ahead and get your criminal records together. I think you'll be fine and probably will be approved without need for a waiver.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 4:52 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Originally Posted by civilservant
I understand, but that wasn't the question you asked. I quoted the question I was responding too.

I think you need a visa to be on the safe side, so go ahead and get your criminal records together. I think you'll be fine and probably will be approved without need for a waiver.
​​​​​​Probably for the best. Would I still need to go to the embassy? I live in the Isle of man you see.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 4:53 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

If you want a Visa, that is where you are interviewed.
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Old Feb 3rd 2020, 5:17 pm
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Default Re: Should I apply for an Esta or a Visa

Would it not be wise to apply for ESTA anyway, answering all questions truthfully. If you're denied, then apply for the visa.

Otherwise, the visa may be denied because you are eligible to use ESTA... Then you're really screwed as you have a visa denial on your record.

It takes minutes and is much cheaper than a visa. What do you have to lose?
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