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From Breaking News:

That is the fastest way to earn an American citizenship.
Americans welcomes you to be one of them.


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From: Supernav

Illegal aliens are selfish. All they want is take take take, and give
nothing back.

Only american citizens and legal residents are supposed
to die - while illegals suck up our dollars and resources and plant
babies. Don't you know that yet?

-= nav =-


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

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From Lion in Winter

Originally posted by supernav
> Illegal aliens are selfish. All they want is take take take, and give nothing back.
>
>
Only american citizens and legal residents are supposed to die - while
illegals suck up our dollars and resources and plant babies. Don't you
know that yet?
>
> -= nav =-


So two people go to work and
produce goods or services, buy products (food, car, clothes, furniture,
gas etc.), pay rent or mortgage, have a family and buy more products,
have taxes deducted from their paychecks, pay sales tax, let their
children who are born here lay down their lives for the US and its
interests abroad. One of these people is a legal immigrant, one is not,
yet one contributes and one is just sucking up dollars?

We live in
the richest country in the world and you don't want to share a little
opportunity to achieve a better life? Who's selfish?


--
Lion in Winter


Posted via http://britishexpats.com

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From Supernav

>and you don't want to share a little opportunity to achieve a >better
>life? Who's selfish?

There's about 6 BILLION people who don't live in
>"the richest country in the world" (which is debatable).

YOU want to
>be the one to welcome them all into your home? Or do we only give the
>green cards to the ones who manage to sneak in via criminal methods?
>

Those people live in COUNTRIES with GOVERNMENTS. It's their
>government's JOB to provide them with a good standard of living -- not
>us.

If their government is killing them -- we'll take them in.
>Otherwise, they can stay home and work for change and education and
>prosperity for a bright future.

-= nav =-


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

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From Lion in Winter

Originally posted by supernav
> >and you don't want to share a little opportunity to achieve a >better life? Who's selfish?
>
> There's about 6 BILLION people who don't live in "the richest country in the world" (which is debatable).
>
> YOU want to be the one to
welcome them all into your home? Or do we only give the green cards to
the ones who manage to sneak in via criminal methods?
>
> Those people
live in COUNTRIES with GOVERNMENTS. It's their government's JOB to
provide them with a good standard of living -- not us.
>
> If their
government is killing them -- we'll take them in. Otherwise, they can
stay home and work for change and education and prosperity for a bright
future.
>
> -= nav =-

Relax. All 6 billion don't actually
want to live here, amazing as it may seem. As to those who come looking
for work, food for their children and a decent house, actually yes, I do
welcome them into my home, wherever that may be. It's too easy to tell
people to stay put and work for change when they are struggling to feed
themselves and protect their children and old people from famine and
disease. Do you have children? How far would you go to protect them?
Do you elderly parents to support? Suppose you couldn't? How would
that feel? The U.S. government provides nobody with a good standard of
living free. The wealth of the most dominant country in the world,
which owns that wealth in part through the exploitation of other
countries and their populations and resources(read countries with
petroleum and other mineral resources, plus the use of dirt cheap labour
in Mexico, Guatemala, China, Phillippines, etc. etc.) provides people
with the opportunity to work and actually get a decent wage for that
work. I, personally, begrudge nobody that opportunity. These people
are not "criminals" in the sense that they demonstrate anti-social
behaviour. They break the law of the U.S., yes, because there is no
other way for them to get in - but laws are made by people and are not
always right or even practical. They are certainly not politically
neutral, and if the history of Europe in the 20th century should have
taught us anything, it's that blind adherence to the law is not
necessarily a good thing.


--
Lion in Winter

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From End of World Poverty

Lion in water


Daing! you are good!

Thumbs up!

Rete

"Lion in Winter" <member14008@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Relax. All 6 billion don't actually
> want to live here, amazing as it may seem. As to those who come looking
> for work, food for their children and a decent house, actually yes, I do
> welcome them into my home, wherever that may be.

What a big heart you have. They are welcome as long they don't move into
your neighborhood.

Are you the one standing down at the hospital shelling out $100 bills to all
of the illegals who are demanding immediate healthcare yet have absolutely
no intention of paying for it? Are you the one spending your free time
educating every child of an illegal alien parent who managed to escape the
notice of the immigration authorities? How many are you personally bringing
into your home and feeding and clothing?

You're not? That means that other are doing it for you. What a Big Heart
you have. Just show up in the newsgroups and announce to everyone how big
your heart is and you don't have to lift a finger any higher than what it
takes to type the message.

Your heart is so big and caring that you will jam a gun into the head of
every one of your neighbors so that they are forced by the police powers of
the State to assuage your guilt feelings and so you can sleep better at
night knowing that "You Care" yet others are carrying the load, often
against their will. What a big heart you have. You hate your neighbor by
robbing him to pay the person who has his own country he should be
reforming. I can't vote in other countries, but the illegal alien can.
Instead of working within their own political structure, it is so much
easier to exploit your Big Heart and dupe you into making sure politicians
here do what the illegal couldn't get their own to do.

> It's too easy to tell
> people to stay put and work for change when they are struggling to feed
> themselves and protect their children and old people from famine and
> disease.

What is this? Are you saying that the Ends Justify the Means? No level of
criminality is unacceptable as long as the ends of "protecting their
children" (at the expense of the host country they are leeching) is met?
How about just breaking into houses and stealing everything in sight? How
about murder for hire? Hey, its for the children! Apparently forging
documents, stealing tax dollars, operating motorvehicles without a license
or insurance and a host of other crimes are acceptable in your sight. You
have morally disqualified yourself from judging against any wrong as long as
the ends is subjectively noble.
Read the rest of this message... (116 more lines)

Rete

From End of World Poverty


> What a big heart you have. They are welcome as long they don't move into
> your neighborhood.

He never implied that

>
> Are you the one standing down at the hospital shelling out $100 bills to all
> of the illegals who are demanding immediate healthcare yet have absolutely
> no intention of paying for it?

Actually that is a moot argument, these individuals do pay taxes and
if fact they were legalized then tax compliance would be easier for
them, so no one but themselves will pay through their taxes for those
expenses.


>Are you the one spending your free time
> educating every child of an illegal alien parent who managed to escape the
> notice of the immigration authorities?

No need to. Again, federal and state taxes from income earned by these
individuals would cover these costs the same way they do for any of
us.


> How many are you personally bringing
> into your home and feeding and clothing?

I'd probably take in a family for a few days until they could begin
working and paying taxes like anyone else.

<sniped>

>
> Your heart is so big and caring that you will jam a gun into the head of
> every one of your neighbors so that they are forced by the police powers of
> the State to assuage your guilt feelings and so you can sleep better at
> night knowing that "You Care" yet others are carrying the load, often
> against their will.

See the previous point, each immigrant would finance her/his public
cost.


> What a big heart you have. You hate your neighbor by
> robbing him to pay the person who has his own country he should be
> reforming.

That is a bit philosphical actually, and much has been said as to the
direct relationship of the wellbeing of the U.S. may have to the poor
conditions of some of these countries. But nonetheless, reform can
also begin from the outside.


> I can't vote in other countries, but the illegal alien can.

You would need to inquire about the signficance, or lack thereof, of a
vote in a third world country to understand how negligible a vote can
be in these countries some times.

<sniped>


> > It's too easy to tell
> > people to stay put and work for change when they are struggling to feed
> > themselves and protect their children and old people from famine and
> > disease.
>
> What is this? Are you saying that the Ends Justify the Means? No level of
> criminality is unacceptable as long as the ends of "protecting their
> children" (at the expense of the host country they are leeching) is met?

Maybe then native americans should deport us all, we are guilty as
charged of such criminality against their country and culture. Would
you dare apply your argument in that context? I did not think so.


> How about just breaking into houses and stealing everything in sight? How
> about murder for hire? Hey, its for the children! Apparently forging
> documents, stealing tax dollars, operating motorvehicles without a license
> or insurance and a host of other crimes are acceptable in your sight. You
> have morally disqualified yourself from judging against any wrong as long as
> the ends is subjectively noble.

How about telling native americans you are friendly people and then
stabbing them on the back? or how about creating a slave trade. Slave
labor upon which much of this country's wealth was amassed?....maybe
you should not go into the criminality argument, lest we end up asking
who came first? the chicken or the egg?


>
> > Do you have children? How far would you go to protect them?
>
> By breaking a host of laws? So would you become a drug dealer to "protect
> your children"?

Read the part about "an unjust law ceases to be a law". How about the
former "Black crow" law, by which "negroes" were legally prohibited to
do the same things white americans could? should such a "negro" obey
the "Black crow" law so that he would be deemed legally
correct?..Ilogical argument again

<sniped>

I sniped the previous for it is answered with the answer I gave about
aliens paying for federal, state and sales taxes.

> > The U.S. government provides nobody with a good standard of
> > living free.
>
> "good" is a subjective term. Our welfare deadbeats in this country have
> larger living areas and more meat in their diet than your average western
> European. No one in need of emergency medical care is turned away despite
> having no intention of paying for services rendered. The lights, water,
> food, telephone, entertainment, police, medical and education systems ares
> ready 24/7/365. I would think that would be "good".

May I say? "taxes"?

>
> > The wealth of the most dominant country in the world,
> > which owns that wealth in part through the exploitation of other
> > countries and their populations and resources(read countries with
> > petroleum and other mineral resources, plus the use of dirt cheap labour
> > in Mexico, Guatemala, China, Phillippines, etc. etc.) provides people
> > with the opportunity to work and actually get a decent wage for that
> > work.
>
> And here comes the well anticipated "I Hate America" dreck typical of the
> left.

So you are a right-winger? The previous poster never showed traces of
hatred towards america. I believe you are oversimplifying.

<sniped for you obviously lack knowledge in the areas of history and
economical history of the world>

>
> > I, personally, begrudge nobody that opportunity. These people
> > are not "criminals" in the sense that they demonstrate anti-social
> > behaviour.
>
> Well we are a nation of laws not a nation based on mushy feelings. Illegal
> immigrants, by definition of being illegal are anti-social. If you can't
> accept that, then maybe it is their total disregard for our society's
> culture that would plant them firmly in the camp of "anti-social". In
> your perverted definitions, I guess booing the US soccer team and shouting
> "Osama, Osama" at Mexico vs US games here in the US isn't anti-social.
> Maybe their demands that we cater to their language and culture, rather than
> the other way around isn't a sign of being "anti-social". Maybe the fact
> they leech off the ~social~ system (ie education, medicine, law enforcement,
> entitlement programs) with no intention of compensating their hosts isn't a
> sign of being "anti-social". Maybe screaming for the repatriation of
> California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas isn't a sign of being anti-social.

LOL that was quite immature, I mean not to realize you are judging
billions of people on the reactions of a few, and even if it held true
for the majority, it only reveals the issues in international
relationships, nothing to do with unjust laws.


>
> > They break the law of the U.S., yes, because there is no
> > other way for them to get in...
>
> That is pure bullshit. Every country has its own laws and its own
> self-interest at stake in their immigration programs. Just because we
> aren't suicidal enough for your tastes and let every Antonio, José and
> Hector stream across our borders totally unimpeded,

Now that just shows your stereotypical attitude.

> it takes a peculiarly
> perverted sense of reasoning to conclude that there is "no other way for
> them to get in". You are begging the question. Why should we let them in?

Because this country was stolen from its original inhabitants, and
because as a moral consequence it became a country of immigrants which
have always helped pave the greatness of this country.


> Wasn't building the maquiladoros good enough? Isn't exporting
> manufacturing jobs deep inside the country good enough? Isn't ginving them
> favorable status in the production of food to be imported into the US good
> enough? Apparently not, giving them free and unrestricted access to every
> institution in this country seems to be the only thing acceptable to you.

That is where your reasoning faults again, the major benefits are for
corporate america, not the outsourcing country

>
> So why do you hate this country so much that you have no sense of pride or
> responsibility in maintaining it?

I think there is nothing implicit about the sense of pride or lack
thereof, by part of the previous poster. You seem to be resorting to
it for you ran out of arguments.

>
> > but laws are made by people and are not
> > always right or even practical.
>
> Who are you to judge? Laws are made by our elected representatives.
<sniped>

Same people who devised segreagtional laws...are those laws still
around??

>
> > They are certainly not politically
> > neutral, and if the history of Europe in the 20th century should have
> > taught us anything, it's that blind adherence to the law is not
> > necessarily a good thing.
>
> OK, we got your number. You are an advocate of lawlessness. Where each
> person does what is right in his own eyes.

I doubt the previous poster advocates lawlessness, I think he meant to
expose that positions such as yours are only a facade for racism and
bigotry. It has always existed - hopefully it will not one day.
However, some of us do believe you do not want to embrace immigration
(as your ancesters were embraced in the past) for you suffer from
racism and bigotry.

<sniped>

Lion in Winter

Then again, maybe not.