Back2TheUSA

Hi; I'm a UK citizen, married in 2000 to my US citizen wife and presently living in the UK. We applied for an I-130 at the US Embassy in July 2008 - today (despite the postal fracas where we live), we received a letter from the Embassy asking for further information, specifically "Please provide a death certificate or divorce decree issued by a public authority to show that a public record exists of the death or termination of all prior marriage(s)." for my wife.

We sent a photocopy of my wife's final divorce papers along with the original I-130 application - the document I copied was issued by the Court in the town where she used to live and included an embossed seal from the court. The embossing is obviously not on the photocopy I sent originally. In the absence of any other information, I've sent a further copy of that document back to the embassy today.

Would there be anything else that they would have expected to confirm the termination of her previous marriage?

Thanks for any advice!

Folinskyinla

Hi:

It is pure speculation. First thought -- did you send the "decree nisi" or did you send the "decree absolute"? In posing this question, I am not assuming I know the UK law in place at the time -- but a lot of jurisdictions have two different decrees -- here in California, that used to be the case except the latin terminology was not used. Rather they were called "interlouctory" and "final" judgments.

It is quite common in places with the two decrees for couples not to do the last formality. And then it comes up in cases just like yours. If this is the case, you will need to contact a local solicitor. It may [note the "may"] to enter the decree absolute "nunc pro tunc" [latin signifying backdate] or you may need to finalize the divorce and then get married again.

Tracym

Do you mean your UK citizen wife?

Back2TheUSA

Actually, neither - I guess I need to clear my head and clarify my thoughts and proof-read my messages properly, since I just noted that I said *I* was a US citizen in my starter post [ well spotted, Tracy!]

Ok, let's try again ... I'm a UK citizen, my wife is a US citizen, we married in the US in 2000 (whilst I was on an H1-B visa) and subsequently moved to the UK. Now, we're trying to get back to the US.

The question from the US Embassy here in London was in relation to my wife's former marriage and subsequent divorce, all of which took place in the US, since she is the US citizen. They've not queried anything regarding my former marriage, since I sent them a copy of my decree absolute.

Apologies for my original mistake - I've been waiting on the mail for weeks, I took my wife to the airport for a trip to Italy this morning (lucky her!) and came back home to the letter from the Embassy. I'm not quite sure what else I can do right now, other than sending a further copy of her divorce document which included the official seal, but that's just a photocopy (as I was instructed) and I did send that with the original petition!

And don't even get me started on the taxes!!!

Tracym

No problem

I would send them a two-sided copy that includes the official seal, for sure.

Unless they are requesting an official copy at this point? In which case you'd need to get another from the county she was divorced in.

Back2TheUSA

I already mailed a further copy, showing the official seal. I'd have copied the other side also, but it's blank ...

The exact wording of the requests from the Embassy are:

"Please provide a death certificate or divorce decree issued by a public authority to show that a public record exists of the death or termination of all prior marriage(s).""

and

"Please provide the full and final divorce decree and proof that the decree was filed in <county>, <state>, for the marriage between the petitioner and <former husband>"

I guess that means they won't accept the document I sent and I'll need to get ahold of a certified copy of a filing record from the court?

Tracym

Wow, I don't know.

So you sent a photocopy of the all pages of the decree, and it shows some stamps from the courthouse? I would have thought that would work.

I had to have a certified copy, but I believe that wasn't needed until my (now husband's) interview.

It's possible they just lost the thing, I don't know what further to say - perhaps someone else will come along and offer some better advise (forum is slow on the weekends).

If you do need to get another official copy, it can be a bit of a pain. You'd have to call the county where she was divorced, and request a copy. The potential hitches are... I had to send in a (US of course) cheque, and I wonder if they would mail it overseas - you might have to have it sent to a friend and forwarded on. Hopefully this won't be necessary.

Wish I could help more - check back, hopefully some other members will comment.

Back2TheUSA

Tracy, thanks for the great advice ... as a holding action, I've sent them another copy of the document with the seal and as a longer term solution (I trust), I've called a friend in the local area and asked her to get to the court house on Monday and organise the copies. Our friend is the local town's version of a pitbull and I'm pretty sure I'll have the copies in my hand by next weekend.

And, by the way, when I called the courthouse back in June for a certified copy of our marriage registry entry (I lived in the town for five years), they were more than happy to mail stuff to the UK and I do still have a local US$ bank account in the town. Of course, the British accent does get one "special treatment" sometimes and I am fortunate to have one of those

I was just depressed to get this kind of request - and especially today - I've been plotting the dates shown on the US Embassy website for London since we originally started this process. Weirdly, the site claims that as at September 15th, they're processing applications from the week after we filed - clearly, the London Embassy is in a different timewarp to the rest of us, since it's only September 13th here, just 20 miles north of the Embassy!

I've also resolved an issue with the IRS on the phone last night - we worked out that we don't owe them any money from 2002, cos I dutifully filled out all the tax returns from when we moved from the US to the UK in 2002. I filled out 2002-2007 inclusive (all completely correctly!) except that we had already filed in 2002 and the IRS had two sets of documents which they simply added together, hence a demand for additional tax. Because I had resolved that just last night, I suspected the rest of the related processes would be straightforward, only to receive the Embassy's request this morning.

Oh well, I'm sure others have had worse issues ...

Again, my thanks!

Folinskyinla

Hi:

You posted an answer which quoted my speculation -- but you did not address my question. Have you READ the actual judgment/decree from the US? In an action to dissolve a marriage, the Court will have jurisdiction over several things -- status of the marriage, division of property, apportionment of debts & taxes, spousal support and support/custody of children. It is VERY COMMON for there to be a detailed "interlocutory" or "decree nisi" for all issues except dissolving the marriage and then a later "final" or "absolute" judgment/decree actually dissolving the marriage.

Another possible scenario is that parties in a dissolution action often obtain initial "pendent lite" order to take care of support, custody, injunctions, etc pending resolution of the proceedings. These orders are issued with the idea that life does not stop while the proceedings are pending. It is not uncommon for the pendent lite orders to reflect the ultimate disposition. However, again, they do not dissolve the marriage.

As I mentioned, unfortunately, it is not uncommon to have some type of judgment or decree which does everything BUT dissolve the marriage.

All you keep saying is that you got a copy of a judgment/decree/order from the court, but you don't give the CONTENTS of that document. Absent that knowledge, no one can give you information as to whether or not you have given the CORRECT document.

I am mentioning a fairly COMMON problem -- and it may very well be that you just got a generic request to give them the CORRECT document.

I often say that although I may be a lawyer, I am not YOUR lawyer. That still applies. However, as a lawyer, I can relate my experience over the years and seeing many cases. If you were my client [and you are not], I would ask to see the documents.

Good luck.

Rete

If the "copy" you have has an embossed seal on it, then that is the certified copy of your wife's divorce decree. Does the decree show any filing marks, i.e court data, record data?

Since you already mailed a second copy (a better one apparently since the seal is evident on the last copy sent) you have to wait until you hear back from them. You will if it is not acceptable.

That is one thing I always liked to stress to people when making copies of officially filed documents, be sure the filing marks are visible.

Back2TheUSA

Thanks for the further info. I didn't quote from the document I do have and have supplied to the Embassy, since it's neither an "absolute" nor a "nisi" decree, at least in the terms I understand as used in the UK.

The salient wording in the document appears to be "... the parties shall severably be at liberty to marry again as if they had never been married" - I guess that's the Pennsylvania equivalent of a UK decree absolute.

I do understand you're not my lawyer - in any event, I've asked a friend in the town to get me a certified copy of the relevant entry in the court records, which I trust will satisfy the USCIS officer who sent the letter to me.

Back2TheUSA

Thanks for that - yes, it has the seal and I did photocopy and send that with the I-130. The document is an original, has a reference number and is signed by a judge, who I understand is still actively er, judging?? The copy I sent with the I-130 and today's copy would be identical, made on my all-in-one printer in colour.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "filing marks", but I honestly think I've taken up enough of everyone's time with this.

Anyways, it might be moot, according to the UK TV news. At this precise time, my wife is en route via Alitalia from Rome to Palermo, Sicily for the next week. CNN just said that Alitalia are about to go into some form of liquidation and may not be able to guarantee any flights after tomorrow. My wife will doubtless enjoy living in Sicily, where I can move with impunity on my UK passport. If (when) she returns, I'll continue to worry about my US visa at that time.

Again, thanks all!

Folinskyinla

Hi:

I'm not a Pennsylvania lawyer, but it sounds good to me. By the way, in talking about terminology -- when California went over to no-fault divorce in 1969, the legislation was so intent on making a clean break with the past that the very term "divorce" was eliminated and replaced with "dissolution of marriage." [Curiously, from 1967 to 1973, California had a fairly conservative Republican governor -- a former movie actor named Ronald Reagan. He signed what is today considered "liberal" legislation reforming California marriage law and authorizing abortion.]

Back2TheUSA

Thanks again, Folinskyinla

My wife was probably one of the easiest folks to divorce [ as she keeps telling me ... and now, I'm thinking I should be worrying ]. Her ex and myself are friendly; her "kids" are 25 and 28, so independent. There was no arguing over assets - there weren't any - nor custody or support of the kids (who effectively have three supportive parents).

The biggest hassle in this entire saga has been caused by the UK Consulate in New York, when we applied to move to the UK for a period - the US folks now appear to be returning the compliment! Somehow, Sicily is beginning to sound more and more attractive!

Buena serata ...

Tracym

I shouldn't... but... LOL!

Seriously, of course, I hope it all gets sorted soon. You do seem to have some sort of "consulate curse" hanging over your head.

Filing marks - I think there's usually some sort of stamp with a date on it.

Don't worry about taking up folks time - that's what we all come on the board for