Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

Hi, hope someone can shed some light. We have applied for US citizenship for our 1 year old son on the grounds that my husband is a citizen and has lived there for the past 10 years. To cut a long story short they have told us that the only way we can prove his residence is by showing passports or contacting border control... tax returns (he has always been self-employed), lease agreements etc. properties owned etc. are not good enough because these don't necessarily prove physical presence.

We've handed in all his passports but since there are no exit stamps (I don't know anyone that has been given a stamp upon exiting the US), it makes it quite difficult for them to count up the days. Has anyone else been in this situation and had a hard time proving their presence? Surely we're not the first to be in this situation.. I find it kind of ridiculous that a country like the US has no accurate record of who is in/out of their country and can't understand why they don't give exit stamps. Would appreciate any feedback.. I just hope they aren't going to be complete jerks and try to tell us that my husband hadn't lived there long enough.. We thought we would have no problem at all since he had lived there from 2001-2010, but they're making it almost impossible for us... :thumbdown:

By the way we have contacted border control as well for records of my husband's entry and exit dates, but to date have heard nothing and can't find anyway to chase them..

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

When you say contacted I assume you mean a Freedom of Information Act request. There is a set time within which they should respond.

Reading http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/admin/fl/...ence_guide.xml gives the following contact information:

U.S. Customs and Border Protection
FOIA Division
799 9th Street NW, Mint Annex
Washington, DC 20229-1181

The phone number for the FOIA office is (202) 325-0150.

That said, it isn't clear if they have that information could need to ask under DHS TRIP or DHS US VISIT.

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

Which is wrong ... if you appealed to a court, they would almost certainly look at the totality of evidence. Who did you apply to - USCIS or the State Department?

Is your son a permanent resident? If so, and if he's living in the USA, he should be a US citizen regardless of (USC) parent's residence.

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

What I find funny is that what you were told, that tax records and utility bills and leases are useless and you need passport stamps is the exact OPPOSITE of every embassy page and even the state department site on applying for a CRBA. They all emphasize that passport stamps are ancillary, and they really want the other documents.

I think you may be up against a officer just jerking you around, have you tried making an appointment with a supervisor?

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

Julie, please explain your circumstances more. Where was your son born etc.

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

There's a lot of missing background information, but generally, the boy is a USC if all of the following 3 situations are true:

1) He is a US permanent resident (= green card);
2) He is in the legal and physical custody of a US citizen parent; and
3) He is under age 18.

If all 3 of these are true, then he IS a US citizen and you don't need to apply for citizenship for him. He is a USC as a matter of law, and all you need to do is apply for a US passport for him.

Ian

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

Folks, JulieinAustin is not IN the US anymore, per her previous last post.
I think we need more information to be able to help her.

For example, Julie, why are you applying for citizenship for your child? What form did you complete and submit to get the answers you did?

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

Thanks for all your replies :) sorry I should have been more clear about our background. My husband was born in Israel but is a US citizen because his father is american, so was naturalised when he was 18. He has lived in the US for the past 10 years and I was a greencard holder there for three years.. We just moved back to the UK at the beginning of last year because I was pregnant and didn't want to give birth over there and we wanted to be closer to our families and we've been living in the UK for about a year and a half.

My understanding is that our son is eligible for citizenship because my husband is a US citizen and has lived there at least five years after the age of 14. The US embassy in London are giving us a hard time trying to prove that he had actually lived there for said amount of time. I honestly thought it would be much easier for us since he had been there for such a long time. We went there the other day to try and submit more evidence such as tax returns and college documents from 2003. We were told the tax returns were no help but the college docs may possibly help. We have lease agreements as well from the last five years and were also told that they're also insufficient... :frown: Finding the whole experience very frustrating!

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

Great, thanks for this.

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

Ultimately the final say isn't with the Embassy, it's with the US courts, if the worst comes to the worst. But you probably want to avoid this.

This is what the embassy's own website says:
http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new...-presence.html

Tax returns don't help much on their own but they can be part of a dossier of evidence showing presence in the USA. Especially State tax - if he lived in a state with income tax, and filed state returns?

Also, there is an organization for American citizens overseas and they might be able to help deal with the embassy: http://www.aca.ch

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

Who is "they?" What, if any, application has been filed?

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

Actually it is five years total, but only two of the five years need to be after the age of fourteen.

Just to let you know if you get nowhere with this your husband can file for an immigrant visa for your son and once he enters the USA he will instantly naturalize to a US citizen. The downside of this is its more expensive and your son will be a naturalized citizen not natural born.

I am trying to gather any documents I can for applying for a CRBA with the USA embassy for my own son, I had posted a topic because odd circumstances lead to me not having much of anything to prove physical presence. From reading people's experiences online on message boards and blogs it definitely strikes me that the process is very arbitrary. Even for those who qualify some people are approved with little trouble and for others it seems no amount of evidence is sufficient. Its possible they are discriminating against your husband because of his naturalized status and perhaps accent etc. Of course this is illegal and they will never admit it, but I don't doubt it happens.

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

You really are a piece of work!

Ian

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

You really believe its totally impossible? It was just a general suggestion for something to think about and keep in mind, her husband submitted all requested documents and is given nothing but excuses. It could be a lot of things, all I offered was a thought.

Re: Proving physical presence for citizenship application for son
 

I missed this the first time around. Downside? Being a naturalized USC has a downside?

You strike me as the worst kind of snob... someone who believes that those of us who are naturalized USCs are somehow inherently inferior to someone who is born a USC. This explains why you're trying so desperately to prove your own son was a USC at birth. You can't stand the thought that your own son might not be as worthy as some kid who was born in the US but whose parents are illegal. Your every post smacks of entitlement and superiority, and nothing but contempt for those of us who weren't born a USC.

Ian