Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
Jan 8th 2005, 4:47 pm
#1
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Florida , US
Posts: 51
Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
This past November 4, my fiance was refused a K-1 visa at the embassy in Bucharest, Romania, and issued a 221g marked only "return to BCIS". His interview was rough, and he was questioned twice. Ciprian was taken aback at her comments and the manner of the questioning and choked badly on his english in his nervousness. He was told bluntly that the CO believed this was simply an opportunity for him to come to the US. His passport and birth certificate were returned to him, but the CO kept his medical records. The CO told Ciprian she wanted to deny the petition as soon as she saw it, but that instead she was sending it back to "BCIS", and that he could return to the embassy when they were finished with it.
I called the Embassy and spoke with the interviewing officer. It was a very rough "conversation" (more like interrogation with me pleading and insisting there had been a terrible mistake) She made it quite clear that while she was sure I was sincere, she was sure he was not. She said he "couldn't even tell me why he loved you". (He responded simply, "because we are the same.") Although I pleaded, she insisted there was nothing I could submit to overturn her decision, but she did talk to me for quite some time, and several times I thought I might have been on the verge of convincing her to issue the visa. Had I maintained more composure and thought a bit more clearly (I had been awake and distrought for 36 hours by the time I was able to connect with her) I might have been successful. Finally I lost all composure began to stammer and choke, and she lectured me that would likely abandon me in the US and wander off free from repercussions from the USCIS in a short time.
I reviewed our approved petition, and while the forms are correctly filled out and the package well organized, it is as sparse on details of his commitment to me as it could possibly be. I had little idea about the "fraud profile" that we, from the information I provided, would seem to fit into, nor that I could have provided details about our relationship which seemed irrelevant to me at the time of my filing, but apparently might have helped distinguish us from this type of "profile". The petition shows no evidence of "engagement" other than our affidavit of intent to marry.
Ciprian brought supporting documents to the interview including many pictures of us together, and a pile of correspondence, most of which was FROM me, and hence, I feel that, together with the petition, showed a very skewed view of how much effort each of us has put into the relationship, with me on the very heavy side of the scale.
I was spooked by the prospect that this lady is a pro, and supposedly knows how to spot a fraud better than I.
I told Ciprian I was not sure we would ever get a visa for him to come to the US, but that I was willing to consider immigrating to Romania. He continued to talk with me daily online for hours, and he now calls me every day too. He assured me that if we planned very carefully, we could manage to create a secure existence there, and although I do love him more than I love the priveleges of living in the US, it is still a frightening prospect even for a remarkably non material American girl, due to the very austere economic conditions there.
It turns out that he did actually want to have a more "formal" engagement, and had hoped to surprise me with an engagement ring (which he had already purchased some months ago) upon his arrival in the US. I asked him to please promise to NEVER surprise me again.
I returned to Romania, and Ciprian put the ring on my finger, and Mama made a fabulous Romanian meal, and we celebrated together, despite the fact that we really did not know exactly how, when, or where we would live together. I re-confirmed that he is exactly who he said he was, and that he is, in fact, extremely sincere. He is a journalist and editor for the town newspaper , a TV correspondent (I saw him on TV!) and a loving son and only child of his widowed mother, with whom he lives. I already knew all of that, except the for the TV news correspondence job, which is relatively new. I promised to return to Romania to visit again in the spring.
Now that I have returned to the US, I am wringing my hands trying to think of a way to clear this up, and bring Ciprian here to the US with me soon. I have heard that I can expect it to take anywhere from 6 months to many years to have our petition readjudicated, and I have grave concerns that that same petition will be returned to the desk of that same CO, who already told us SHE DOESN'T LIKE IT.
I will certainly attend the next interview.
My question is, is it possible AND adviseable to file a new, more thoroughly documented fiance visa petition NOW before we marry and I try again K-3? Must I somehow "withdraw" my former petition first?
Is there any realistic reason to think I am on the heels of re-approval or the opportunity to appeal and should just wait? Do I HAVE to wait on my initial application to be readjudicated before I re-file a K-1 or K-3?
Please help. I feel so sad to think I might have to leave my country to live with my sweetheart.
Sincerely,
Jaci
I called the Embassy and spoke with the interviewing officer. It was a very rough "conversation" (more like interrogation with me pleading and insisting there had been a terrible mistake) She made it quite clear that while she was sure I was sincere, she was sure he was not. She said he "couldn't even tell me why he loved you". (He responded simply, "because we are the same.") Although I pleaded, she insisted there was nothing I could submit to overturn her decision, but she did talk to me for quite some time, and several times I thought I might have been on the verge of convincing her to issue the visa. Had I maintained more composure and thought a bit more clearly (I had been awake and distrought for 36 hours by the time I was able to connect with her) I might have been successful. Finally I lost all composure began to stammer and choke, and she lectured me that would likely abandon me in the US and wander off free from repercussions from the USCIS in a short time.
I reviewed our approved petition, and while the forms are correctly filled out and the package well organized, it is as sparse on details of his commitment to me as it could possibly be. I had little idea about the "fraud profile" that we, from the information I provided, would seem to fit into, nor that I could have provided details about our relationship which seemed irrelevant to me at the time of my filing, but apparently might have helped distinguish us from this type of "profile". The petition shows no evidence of "engagement" other than our affidavit of intent to marry.
Ciprian brought supporting documents to the interview including many pictures of us together, and a pile of correspondence, most of which was FROM me, and hence, I feel that, together with the petition, showed a very skewed view of how much effort each of us has put into the relationship, with me on the very heavy side of the scale.
I was spooked by the prospect that this lady is a pro, and supposedly knows how to spot a fraud better than I.
I told Ciprian I was not sure we would ever get a visa for him to come to the US, but that I was willing to consider immigrating to Romania. He continued to talk with me daily online for hours, and he now calls me every day too. He assured me that if we planned very carefully, we could manage to create a secure existence there, and although I do love him more than I love the priveleges of living in the US, it is still a frightening prospect even for a remarkably non material American girl, due to the very austere economic conditions there.
It turns out that he did actually want to have a more "formal" engagement, and had hoped to surprise me with an engagement ring (which he had already purchased some months ago) upon his arrival in the US. I asked him to please promise to NEVER surprise me again.
I returned to Romania, and Ciprian put the ring on my finger, and Mama made a fabulous Romanian meal, and we celebrated together, despite the fact that we really did not know exactly how, when, or where we would live together. I re-confirmed that he is exactly who he said he was, and that he is, in fact, extremely sincere. He is a journalist and editor for the town newspaper , a TV correspondent (I saw him on TV!) and a loving son and only child of his widowed mother, with whom he lives. I already knew all of that, except the for the TV news correspondence job, which is relatively new. I promised to return to Romania to visit again in the spring.
Now that I have returned to the US, I am wringing my hands trying to think of a way to clear this up, and bring Ciprian here to the US with me soon. I have heard that I can expect it to take anywhere from 6 months to many years to have our petition readjudicated, and I have grave concerns that that same petition will be returned to the desk of that same CO, who already told us SHE DOESN'T LIKE IT.
I will certainly attend the next interview.
My question is, is it possible AND adviseable to file a new, more thoroughly documented fiance visa petition NOW before we marry and I try again K-3? Must I somehow "withdraw" my former petition first?
Is there any realistic reason to think I am on the heels of re-approval or the opportunity to appeal and should just wait? Do I HAVE to wait on my initial application to be readjudicated before I re-file a K-1 or K-3?
Please help. I feel so sad to think I might have to leave my country to live with my sweetheart.
Sincerely,
Jaci
Jan 9th 2005, 9:52 pm
#2
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,430
Re: Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
Originally Posted by Jaci
This past November 4, my fiance was refused a K-1 visa at the embassy in Bucharest, Romania, and issued a 221g marked only "return to BCIS". His interview was rough, and he was questioned twice. Ciprian was taken aback at her comments and the manner of the questioning and choked badly on his english in his nervousness. He was told bluntly that the CO believed this was simply an opportunity for him to come to the US. His passport and birth certificate were returned to him, but the CO kept his medical records. The CO told Ciprian she wanted to deny the petition as soon as she saw it, but that instead she was sending it back to "BCIS", and that he could return to the embassy when they were finished with it.
I called the Embassy and spoke with the interviewing officer. It was a very rough "conversation" (more like interrogation with me pleading and insisting there had been a terrible mistake) She made it quite clear that while she was sure I was sincere, she was sure he was not. She said he "couldn't even tell me why he loved you". (He responded simply, "because we are the same.") Although I pleaded, she insisted there was nothing I could submit to overturn her decision, but she did talk to me for quite some time, and several times I thought I might have been on the verge of convincing her to issue the visa. Had I maintained more composure and thought a bit more clearly (I had been awake and distrought for 36 hours by the time I was able to connect with her) I might have been successful. Finally I lost all composure began to stammer and choke, and she lectured me that would likely abandon me in the US and wander off free from repercussions from the USCIS in a short time.
I reviewed our approved petition, and while the forms are correctly filled out and the package well organized, it is as sparse on details of his commitment to me as it could possibly be. I had little idea about the "fraud profile" that we, from the information I provided, would seem to fit into, nor that I could have provided details about our relationship which seemed irrelevant to me at the time of my filing, but apparently might have helped distinguish us from this type of "profile". The petition shows no evidence of "engagement" other than our affidavit of intent to marry.
Ciprian brought supporting documents to the interview including many pictures of us together, and a pile of correspondence, most of which was FROM me, and hence, I feel that, together with the petition, showed a very skewed view of how much effort each of us has put into the relationship, with me on the very heavy side of the scale.
I was spooked by the prospect that this lady is a pro, and supposedly knows how to spot a fraud better than I.
I told Ciprian I was not sure we would ever get a visa for him to come to the US, but that I was willing to consider immigrating to Romania. He continued to talk with me daily online for hours, and he now calls me every day too. He assured me that if we planned very carefully, we could manage to create a secure existence there, and although I do love him more than I love the priveleges of living in the US, it is still a frightening prospect even for a remarkably non material American girl, due to the very austere economic conditions there.
It turns out that he did actually want to have a more "formal" engagement, and had hoped to surprise me with an engagement ring (which he had already purchased some months ago) upon his arrival in the US. I asked him to please promise to NEVER surprise me again.
I returned to Romania, and Ciprian put the ring on my finger, and Mama made a fabulous Romanian meal, and we celebrated together, despite the fact that we really did not know exactly how, when, or where we would live together. I re-confirmed that he is exactly who he said he was, and that he is, in fact, extremely sincere. He is a journalist and editor for the town newspaper , a TV correspondent (I saw him on TV!) and a loving son and only child of his widowed mother, with whom he lives. I already knew all of that, except the for the TV news correspondence job, which is relatively new. I promised to return to Romania to visit again in the spring.
Now that I have returned to the US, I am wringing my hands trying to think of a way to clear this up, and bring Ciprian here to the US with me soon. I have heard that I can expect it to take anywhere from 6 months to many years to have our petition readjudicated, and I have grave concerns that that same petition will be returned to the desk of that same CO, who already told us SHE DOESN'T LIKE IT.
I will certainly attend the next interview.
My question is, is it possible AND adviseable to file a new, more thoroughly documented fiance visa petition NOW before we marry and I try again K-3? Must I somehow "withdraw" my former petition first?
Is there any realistic reason to think I am on the heels of re-approval or the opportunity to appeal and should just wait? Do I HAVE to wait on my initial application to be readjudicated before I re-file a K-1 or K-3?
Please help. I feel so sad to think I might have to leave my country to live with my sweetheart.
Sincerely,
Jaci
I called the Embassy and spoke with the interviewing officer. It was a very rough "conversation" (more like interrogation with me pleading and insisting there had been a terrible mistake) She made it quite clear that while she was sure I was sincere, she was sure he was not. She said he "couldn't even tell me why he loved you". (He responded simply, "because we are the same.") Although I pleaded, she insisted there was nothing I could submit to overturn her decision, but she did talk to me for quite some time, and several times I thought I might have been on the verge of convincing her to issue the visa. Had I maintained more composure and thought a bit more clearly (I had been awake and distrought for 36 hours by the time I was able to connect with her) I might have been successful. Finally I lost all composure began to stammer and choke, and she lectured me that would likely abandon me in the US and wander off free from repercussions from the USCIS in a short time.
I reviewed our approved petition, and while the forms are correctly filled out and the package well organized, it is as sparse on details of his commitment to me as it could possibly be. I had little idea about the "fraud profile" that we, from the information I provided, would seem to fit into, nor that I could have provided details about our relationship which seemed irrelevant to me at the time of my filing, but apparently might have helped distinguish us from this type of "profile". The petition shows no evidence of "engagement" other than our affidavit of intent to marry.
Ciprian brought supporting documents to the interview including many pictures of us together, and a pile of correspondence, most of which was FROM me, and hence, I feel that, together with the petition, showed a very skewed view of how much effort each of us has put into the relationship, with me on the very heavy side of the scale.
I was spooked by the prospect that this lady is a pro, and supposedly knows how to spot a fraud better than I.
I told Ciprian I was not sure we would ever get a visa for him to come to the US, but that I was willing to consider immigrating to Romania. He continued to talk with me daily online for hours, and he now calls me every day too. He assured me that if we planned very carefully, we could manage to create a secure existence there, and although I do love him more than I love the priveleges of living in the US, it is still a frightening prospect even for a remarkably non material American girl, due to the very austere economic conditions there.
It turns out that he did actually want to have a more "formal" engagement, and had hoped to surprise me with an engagement ring (which he had already purchased some months ago) upon his arrival in the US. I asked him to please promise to NEVER surprise me again.
I returned to Romania, and Ciprian put the ring on my finger, and Mama made a fabulous Romanian meal, and we celebrated together, despite the fact that we really did not know exactly how, when, or where we would live together. I re-confirmed that he is exactly who he said he was, and that he is, in fact, extremely sincere. He is a journalist and editor for the town newspaper , a TV correspondent (I saw him on TV!) and a loving son and only child of his widowed mother, with whom he lives. I already knew all of that, except the for the TV news correspondence job, which is relatively new. I promised to return to Romania to visit again in the spring.
Now that I have returned to the US, I am wringing my hands trying to think of a way to clear this up, and bring Ciprian here to the US with me soon. I have heard that I can expect it to take anywhere from 6 months to many years to have our petition readjudicated, and I have grave concerns that that same petition will be returned to the desk of that same CO, who already told us SHE DOESN'T LIKE IT.
I will certainly attend the next interview.
My question is, is it possible AND adviseable to file a new, more thoroughly documented fiance visa petition NOW before we marry and I try again K-3? Must I somehow "withdraw" my former petition first?
Is there any realistic reason to think I am on the heels of re-approval or the opportunity to appeal and should just wait? Do I HAVE to wait on my initial application to be readjudicated before I re-file a K-1 or K-3?
Please help. I feel so sad to think I might have to leave my country to live with my sweetheart.
Sincerely,
Jaci
Jan 10th 2005, 2:26 am
#3
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Florida , US
Posts: 51
Re: Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
Originally Posted by sphyrapicus
Have you retained counsel?
It didn't occur to me there was much reason to want to re-file until I read that 99% of internet (immigration) fraud schemes begin when the USC receives an e-mail from a foreign counterpart on an internet dating site. Usually this is a form letter crafted to sound personal and mass e-mailed to screen for potential suckers.
When I look at my K-1 petition now, I can see that had I simply written into the "how we met" thing about how and why I (the USC) wrote to my fiance first, it might have drastically lowered the probability of me and my fiance getting grilled by the CO . There are a few of these type of "simple" things I could have done, degrading my confidence in my original petition.
Perhaps many moons from now, the same petition SHE DIDN'T LIKE will show up re-approved on the CO's desk... probably while she's speculating about evil foreigners and stupid USC's, reading something like the USCIS publication FionasFiance posted about mail order brides...
http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/re...es/Mobappa.htm
Something she said to me on the phone was a nearly direct quote from this piece of literature, about how easy it is for the alien to ditch the USC and avoid repercussions from USCIS.
I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to re-file in the meanwhile, and possibly get a much nicer reception at interview time, regardless of the record of the previous petition's return.
*sigh*
Thanks for your concern, I do really appreciate it.
((Hugs))
Jaci
Last edited by Jaci; Jan 10th 2005 at 2:37 am. Reason: link added... interesting article
Jan 10th 2005, 10:57 am
#4
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 236
Re: Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
I would suggest you consult with an attorney. I had a very similar circumstance with my then fiancee. His petition was returned to BCIS and there was no way of getting them to approve in Abu Dhabi (he is from India and lived in the UAE so we went through Abu Dhabi). What I foolishly believed to be a simple process turned into a nightmare from hell. Luckily I had worked for a great immigration attorney, whom I promptly called and she advised me what to do. Things worked out beautifully and we have now been married for over 16 wonderful months.
If you are both committed and love each other, it will work out. Just a matter of time and patience.
Good Luck!
JG
If you are both committed and love each other, it will work out. Just a matter of time and patience.
Good Luck!
JG
Jan 10th 2005, 11:36 am
#5
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Florida , US
Posts: 51
Re: Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
Thanks for the encouragement JG.
Jaci
Jaci
Jan 10th 2005, 1:10 pm
#6
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,430
Re: Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
Originally Posted by Jaci
I realize I need some. Before I wanted one it seemed like there were "expert" immigration attorneys swarming everywhere, and boy do I wish I hadn't let them put me off so much now, so this misunderstanding could have been avoided. The few I feel might be worth having confidence in in this matter seem to be too busy to get back to me, and one in particular I'm having a bit or trouble contacting at all, but I haven't given up. I'm hoping learning to ask better questions will help me get better answers, and I can see I have a long way to go. LOL
It didn't occur to me there was much reason to want to re-file until I read that 99% of internet (immigration) fraud schemes begin when the USC receives an e-mail from a foreign counterpart on an internet dating site. Usually this is a form letter crafted to sound personal and mass e-mailed to screen for potential suckers.
When I look at my K-1 petition now, I can see that had I simply written into the "how we met" thing about how and why I (the USC) wrote to my fiance first, it might have drastically lowered the probability of me and my fiance getting grilled by the CO . There are a few of these type of "simple" things I could have done, degrading my confidence in my original petition.
Perhaps many moons from now, the same petition SHE DIDN'T LIKE will show up re-approved on the CO's desk... probably while she's speculating about evil foreigners and stupid USC's, reading something like the USCIS publication FionasFiance posted about mail order brides...
http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/re...es/Mobappa.htm
Something she said to me on the phone was a nearly direct quote from this piece of literature, about how easy it is for the alien to ditch the USC and avoid repercussions from USCIS.
I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to re-file in the meanwhile, and possibly get a much nicer reception at interview time, regardless of the record of the previous petition's return.
*sigh*
Thanks for your concern, I do really appreciate it.
((Hugs))
Jaci
It didn't occur to me there was much reason to want to re-file until I read that 99% of internet (immigration) fraud schemes begin when the USC receives an e-mail from a foreign counterpart on an internet dating site. Usually this is a form letter crafted to sound personal and mass e-mailed to screen for potential suckers.
When I look at my K-1 petition now, I can see that had I simply written into the "how we met" thing about how and why I (the USC) wrote to my fiance first, it might have drastically lowered the probability of me and my fiance getting grilled by the CO . There are a few of these type of "simple" things I could have done, degrading my confidence in my original petition.
Perhaps many moons from now, the same petition SHE DIDN'T LIKE will show up re-approved on the CO's desk... probably while she's speculating about evil foreigners and stupid USC's, reading something like the USCIS publication FionasFiance posted about mail order brides...
http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/re...es/Mobappa.htm
Something she said to me on the phone was a nearly direct quote from this piece of literature, about how easy it is for the alien to ditch the USC and avoid repercussions from USCIS.
I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to re-file in the meanwhile, and possibly get a much nicer reception at interview time, regardless of the record of the previous petition's return.
*sigh*
Thanks for your concern, I do really appreciate it.
((Hugs))
Jaci
If an attorney is "too busy to get back to" you then I would probably not retain his / her counsel. The last thing you want is an attorney that you can never get a hold of. How are you deciding on who to contact? Are they being referred to you? Are they members of AILA? Do they have experience with the Romanian consulate? Do they have exceperience with 221(g) issues?
Jan 10th 2005, 1:16 pm
#7
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Florida , US
Posts: 51
Re: Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
Yup, referrals, AILA, but can't say for Bucharest or the 221g issue. I don't think I want one who doesn't at lease have 221g experience. I'm concerned about these guys not getting back to me. It can't be a good sign. 
Anyone have any suggestions? Today I'm focusing on my letter writing campaign.
Jaci
Anyone have any suggestions? Today I'm focusing on my letter writing campaign.
Jaci
Jan 11th 2005, 2:00 am
#8
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
Originally Posted by Jaci
I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to re-file in the meanwhile, and possibly get a much nicer reception at interview time, regardless of the record of the previous petition's return.
Jan 11th 2005, 11:16 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Please help. K-1 221g "soft denial"? Do I need to start over?
> Luckily I had worked for a great immigration attorney, whom I
> promptly called and she advised me what to do. Things worked out
> beautifully and we have now been married for over 16 wonderful
months.
> If you are both committed and love each other, it will work out.
Just a
> matter of time and patience.
> Good Luck!
> JG
JG...
What did the immigration attorney advise you to do?
M
> promptly called and she advised me what to do. Things worked out
> beautifully and we have now been married for over 16 wonderful
months.
> If you are both committed and love each other, it will work out.
Just a
> matter of time and patience.
> Good Luck!
> JG
JG...
What did the immigration attorney advise you to do?
M
