ian-mstm

They may be US citizens but they can not currently prove it... and the officer is not obligated to believe what you say. If they are US citizens, then their GCs are no longer valid... even if they have not yet reached their expiry date. You are caught in a situation where you children are not PRs but you can not prove they are USCs. Perhaps you should postpone your trip to Europe until your family has proper documentation.

Ian

Ned

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > Hello,
    > I have received citizenship through naturalization a few weeks ago.
    > Can my kids (age < 17 years) still travel using their current Green
    > Cards? I do not have enough time to obtain birth certificates from
    > abroad to apply for the passports for them and I do not have enough
    > time to go through N-600 process before our planned trip to Europe.
    > Any other option? Thank you and best regards.
    > Leszek

There's no sense in applying for a Certificate of Citizenship. It costs
more and takes longer to get than a US passport. To travel, your kids will
need US passports anyway. It makes sense to get US passports first and
apply for a Certificates of Citizenship later (if you really feel the need
to get them).

All US citizens must enter the US with a valid US passport when returning
from Europe. Within the next couple of years, this may also be true of US
citizens returning from places like Canada and Mexico.

So you have no choice - you must obtain the kids' birth certificates and
obtain US passports for them if they want to re-enter the US legally. You
can get expedited service and receive a US passport in a day or 2 as long as
you're prepared to pay the extra fees.

If you still don't have time to do this, the only other possible option
might be to exit the country on foreign passports (although this is still a
dodgy thing for a US citizen to do and possibly also illegal under US law so
beware), obtain the kids' birth certs while you are in Europe and then apply
(requesting expedited service) for the US passports at a US
embassy/consulate in Europe. That way you'll have the passports for the
trip back to the US. However, you may be asked questions if someone notices
the passport date of issue.

Ned

Rete

Frank

The children do not take the oath. They become USC as derivatives of their parents. All they need is to show their green card, parent(s) naturalization certificate, foreign passport and/or birth certificate and parents marriage certificate and they qualify for their own US Passport as proof of US Citizenship.

The N-600 is not a requirement either but is beneficial if somewhere down the line they need to show hard proof of their naturalization.

Rete

Rete

You don't exit the US on a passport. You only need to show photo identification at the airline counter to board the plane. I've been to Germany and have never been asked to show my passport when leaving.

Rete

Sir

You have to prove their identity. You have to prove that they are your children and/or that you are their parent, whichever way you wish to look at it. It is not that difficult to understand. Sorry don't mean to sound harsh but you are not looking at the entire picture here. Did you not bring the birth certificates with you when you traveled to the US as residents? What did you use to prove their ages for school enrollment?

Can't a family member send them to you via courier if they are still at someone's address in the old country?

Rete

Rete

Sir

Again, think about it. You say you are going to Europe. I am assuming you are visiting the country you came from. Will country allow you to enter it without your passport. Will that government take your word for it that you are a citizen of that country?

Your children need never apply for the N-600. If they have their US Passports that is all they need. But you need to have a birth certificate showing where they were born and to WHOM they were born. Why? Because their naturalization is a derivative of yours so they have to prove they are your children. It is really simple and not a stupid rule of the government. The CIS is a different agency than the US Passport Agency. Just because you gave your children's birth certificate to the INS/BCIS/USCIS years ago does not mean that it was placed on record for every US agency to view.

Rete

Ned

"Rete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] m...
    >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >> > Hello,
    >> > I have received citizenship through naturalization a few weeks
    >> > ago.
    >> > Can my kids (age < 17 years) still travel using their current Green
    >> > Cards? I do not have enough time to obtain birth certificates from
    >> > abroad to apply for the passports for them and I do not have enough
    >> > time to go through N-600 process before our planned trip to Europe.
    >> > Any other option? Thank you and best regards.
    >> > Leszek
    >> There's no sense in applying for a Certificate of Citizenship. It
    >> costs
    >> more and takes longer to get than a US passport. To travel, your kids
    >> will
    >> need US passports anyway. It makes sense to get US passports first
    >> and
    >> apply for a Certificates of Citizenship later (if you really feel the
    >> need
    >> to get them).
    >> All US citizens must enter the US with a valid US passport when
    >> returning
    >> from Europe. Within the next couple of years, this may also be true
    >> of US
    >> citizens returning from places like Canada and Mexico.
    >> So you have no choice - you must obtain the kids' birth certificates
    >> and
    >> obtain US passports for them if they want to re-enter the US legally.
    >> You
    >> can get expedited service and receive a US passport in a day or 2 as
    >> long as
    >> you're prepared to pay the extra fees.
    >> If you still don't have time to do this, the only other possible
    >> option
    >> might be to exit the country on foreign passports (although this is
    >> still a
    >> dodgy thing for a US citizen to do and possibly also illegal under US
    >> law so
    >> beware), obtain the kids' birth certs while you are in Europe and then
    >> apply
    >> (requesting expedited service) for the US passports at a US
    >> embassy/consulate in Europe. That way you'll have the passports for
    >> the
    >> trip back to the US. However, you may be asked questions if someone
    >> notices
    >> the passport date of issue.
    >> Ned
    > You don't exit the US on a passport. You only need to show photo
    > identification at the airline counter to board the plane. I've been to
    > Germany and have never been asked to show my passport when leaving.

OK, maybe it's not illegal. If so, I've given him an option that will allow
him to leave the country and get the US passports in Europe.

However, what happens if the plane leaves US air space but is forced to
return? For example, through some sort of emergency. Or what happens if it
never gets off the ground? Would his kids then have to come back through US
immigration as US citizens without US passports? Exiting the US as a US
citizen without a US passport may not be illegal but it may still be a dodgy
thing to do.

Ned

sgallagher

    > You don't exit the US on a passport. You only need to show photo
    > identification at the airline counter to board the plane. I've been to
    > Germany and have never been asked to show my passport when leaving.

It's true that there are no formal passport checkpoints when leaving
the US, but US law requires that a US citizen be in possession of a
valid US passport when leaving the US (except when travelling to those
places from which a passport is not currently required for re-entering
the US like Canada, Mexico, etc.). So, an American travelling to
Europe is supposed to have a US passport with him when he leaves the
US.

frrussre

I have flown out of NY or NJ many times. When travelling outside the country I/we have always been asked for our passports. Once at the checkin & again when boarding. Flew to UK Feb 2006, both of us showed our passports twice.
reg. Frank R.

snowbunny

Yep me too.

The kids' birth certs need to be applied for NOW since they may be asked for many times down the road that can't be foreseen.

Taking children without proper documentation across international lines is very risky, not just for immigration status, but if the authorities do not believe that you are their parents, they can arrest you for kidnapping until they find proof of the kids' identities.

As others have stated, you normally need a birth certificate at many junctures: to enroll in school, summer camp, get a driver's learners permit, you name it. How you've managed to squeak by this long without them is amazing, and you haven't answered those questions, so we have to assume that the only form of documentation they currently have is their green cards. Do they have Social Security Numbers or ITINs?

1) Apply for birth certificates.
2) Apply for passports.

If there is some problem in the country that holds birth certificates, such as war, that has either destroyed the certificates or makes getting them impossible, then say so, and work on how to proceed from there.

frrussre

leszekl, several wise people have responded. Looks like the verdict is in.
Extremely risky & illegal to take the children, without US Passports.
Reg. Frank R.

Leszek

Many thanks to everybody that responded.
It looks like the passport way is the only way.
Still I have the shadow of the doubt why US Green Card cannot be used
in place of birth certificate. It is much more difficult to forge
amoung other things.

Well , dura lex, sed lex...

Thank you again,
Leszek

Ned

"leszek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > Many thanks to everybody that responded.
    > It looks like the passport way is the only way.
    > Still I have the shadow of the doubt why US Green Card cannot be used
    > in place of birth certificate. It is much more difficult to forge
    > amoung other things.
    > Well , dura lex, sed lex...
    > Thank you again,
    > Leszek

Their Green Cards only prove that your children are permanent residents.
You still need their birth certificates to prove that they are *your*
children and therefore became US citizens derivatively when you naturalized.
Remember that there are 4 conditions for derivative citizenship. The Green
Card alone only proves that part of the requirements for derivative
citizenship were met. You definitely need their birth certificates for
their US passport applications.

See http://www.ptla.org/immigrants/english/citizenship.htm

On or after February 27, 2001, a child will become a U.S. citizen
derivatively as soon as all of the following things happen:
a.. the child is under 18 years old;
b.. the child is or becomes a permanent resident;
c.. a parent of the child is sworn in as a naturalized U.S. citizen after
February 27, 2001; and
d.. the child lives with and is in the legal custody of the parent who
became the U.S. citizen.
It does not matter in what order these things happen. The child will become
a U.S. citizen derivatively through his parent's naturalization as long as
all of these requirements are met before the child's 18th birthday. The
child could have been living outside the U.S. at the time his parent became
a U.S. citizen, as long as he later enters the U.S. as a permanent resident
to live with that parent while still under 18 years old.

Before February 27, 2001, to become a U.S. citizen derivatively the laws
were the same as above, except that if the child lived with both of his
parents, both parents had to become naturalized U.S. citizens before the
person's 18th birthday. If one parent naturalized while the child was under
18, but the other naturalized after the child's 18th birthday, then the
child did not become a U.S. citizen automatically and must file for
naturalization on his own.

Ned

Leszek

OK. Thank you.
And yes, they were admited to school, they have learners permits,
they've been to summer camps.
For all these activities a green card was sufficient - there was no
need whatsoever for the last 6 years to provide a birth certificate
from the country of origin.
Anyway, looks like this is the only way to get the passport.
Thank you!

Leszek

Ned, thank you for a complete answer.... Yes... I see now that I need
it.
Thank you again
Leszek