scrubbedexpat099

I guess it is because you are not eligible to apply in the first place if you have.

henryh

Ian's point bears reiterating - attempting to enter with a 3-year ban in place gets you a lifetime ban.

crg

Let me refine this point a little. Attempting to enter with a 3-year ban may or may not lead to a longer ban. I'm not encouraging the attempt. The person could end up in a lot more trouble depending on how it all goes down.

Entering or attempting to enter without inspection (jumping the fence) would trigger a lifetime ban, but that isn't automatic for someone who presents themselves for inspection at an open port of entry just because they have a 3 year bar in place. There are several possible outcomes to such an attempt depending on a variety of factors that are too numerous to list.

scrubbedexpat099

There is a thread on another Board where the guy won the Lottery but had a 10 year ban due to attempting to enter on the VWP after an overstay, being held in custody and deported.

jxsteinberg

Thats quite interesting, do you know if he got his immigrant visa? The reason I is is I know of someone who had overstayed on the VWP by around 4mths, found out in that time they had won in the DV Lottery, flew back to New Zealand from Vancouver via driving over the border from Seattle, got all their documents in order, went to the interview, was successful and flew back here no more than 1-2 weeks after his passport with visa inside was returned. From memory at my immigrant interview they asked me if I had overstayed on the VWP so I guess he had to lie as well as on his initial forms

scrubbedexpat099

In the example you gave they did not have a ban.

This guy was deported after trying to re enter on the VWP. The ban was for the deportation.

helpmeplease123

I think this is probably the exception that people talk about rather than the rule (if you've seen he's just not that into you you'll get the reference!)

Seems like an incredibly stupid plan which could've backfired on him at several points during the process and not really worth the risk of a life time ban, especially if all this law breaking is for a partner, which I guess it normally is.

Also, no offence if it's someone close to you but i'm actually quite disappointed that the lottery is apparently so random (and not thorough) that this person took the place of another applicant who may actually respect laws. As I said, I hope this was an extreme exception.

scrubbedexpat099

Perhaps you could explain what was his problem?

I see none.

helpmeplease123

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking..

Violating the terms of the VWP and trying to avoid getting caught by sneaking across the Canadian border (which simply remind of the poster who tried to fool the system by going out through Mexico)...

On top of that, according to the poster of the message, this person then lied during the interview or on the forms for the DV visa.

The problem being, he could've gotten caught at any point in that process and incurred a long term or life time ban, really not worth it for 4 months... and in addition there are plenty of truthful, law abiding citizens who were unsuccessful in the DV lottery, which doesn't seem right at all to me.

Anyway, my main point was that the story sounds very risky and although it may sound tempting to the OP that this person got away with something similar and she may too. It is actually far more likely to backfire and cause massive problems instead.

scrubbedexpat099

Nothing inherently wrong with leaving through Canada.

I did not take that he lied about his departure date, a lie would be an issue even though the information was not material.

jxsteinberg

I don't know for a fact if he lied at his immigrant interview, i was just basing it on the fact that I was asked if I had ever overstayed on my previous visits to the US under the vwp. As for the documents I think he had been in the US under 90 days when he sent them off so.

I guess he technically didn't lie (assuming he wants asked the above mentioned at the interview) and as Boiler said theres nothing illegal about leaving through Canada but at the same time I understand your argument also.

Having said all this I think it would be foolish to come to America on a visa let alone under the VWP with the intention of overstaying until you won the lottery which obviously could take years and years, however I doubt this was his intention

I guess my friend got lucky and even though it was a risk it came off and once he had the lottery I don't really see how he could have got caught but of course its possible

scrubbedexpat099

He would not have been asked about it, he would have had to declare his previous visits. A short overstay would not have had consequences, one over 180 days would have .

scrubbedexpat099

The relevance here is that different circumstances have different consequences.

Similar does not count.

sandor333

If you try to re-enter in the future, they would still know that you have overstayed during the previous visit. This is because the entry and exit systems of DHS are linked and so when the CBP officer scans your ppt (the MRZ) it would become apparent that you left the US well after the date that you were permitted to stay under the VWP (this would then be verified at secondary inspection where they would carry out a more detailed search on the system).

That you were not given a green 94 form is no longer relevant because the VWP is now completely electronic. When you left the US the last time (if by air) your ppt would have been scanned at the check in desk and this would be the relevant act by which DHS would know that you left AFTER the permitted time. Airlines have an obligation to provide CBP with the passanger manifest within 48 hours of departure.

So to summarize, that you have a valid ESTA does not mean anything as others have said and regarding your specific question, they (DHS) would know that you have overstayed and therefore you'd be found inadmissible and would be deported from the US I can guarantee you 98.99%.

ian-mstm

There is no immigration exit control at most locations in the US, so...


... if they know at all, it'll be because of the airline reports.

Ian