rtdavide

Hello,

I have a question on citizenship/nationality that I'm not sure where
to find a definitive answer.
I was born with dual American/Italian citizenship through the jure
sanguinis laws in Italy.
My mother, though born here in the states, was born to an Italian
immigrant that had yet to naturalize. So his Italian citizenship was
passed to her and then to me as well.
But here is where it gets tricky: I was adopted OUT of that family as
an infant to parents with only American citizenship.
Italian law seems to provide that Italian citizenship is not lost in
article 11 of its citizenship law:
"The citizen who possesses, acquires or regains a foreign citizenship
shall keep the Italian one. Nevertheless he may renounce the Italian
citizenship if he resides or settles down abroad."
http://www.legislationline.org/legislation.php?tid&lid36

>From the European Convention on Nationality, Strasbourg 6.XI.1997
http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/166.htm
Article 7 says:
1. A State Party may not provide in its internal law for the loss of
its nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State Party except
in the following cases: g. adoption of a child if the child acquires
or possesses the foreign nationality of one or both of the adopting
parents.

Which says that a member state, such as Italy, I suppose has the right
to provide for loss of citizenship in the case of adoption by
foreigners, like Germany, but is not required to do so.
Article 14 says:
"A state party shall allow children having different nationalities
acquired automatically at birth to retain these nationalities"
Again, rather than requiring the maintenance of dual citizenship, it
merely allows for it.

And it seems like Italian law allows it. Unlike the German laws which
specifically mention that adoption forfeits any previously held
citizenships and the fact that German law prohibits dual citizenship,
Italian law does seem to allow it.
Now, given that I was born, adopted and currently reside on American
soil, but am applying through the Italian consulate for recognition of
Italian citizenship: what would be the determiner- Italian adoption
laws, American adoption laws, both?

I have asked this question at the consulate and they don't seem to
know specifically, but have said they will check into it. I have never
heard back, so I am trying to research the question as much as
possible.

I know that typically adoption means that the adopted child loses all
rights pertaining to the biological parents, but the issue of
nationality seems like it may actually transcend that.
I'd like to know before I continue down an expensive path if I'm
wasting time on something that will end up shut off to me.

If this is not the forum for such questions, does anyone have
recommendations where I might ask such a thing?
I have tried several of the forums concerning citizenship jure
sanguinis, but my case is sort of different and no one seems sure.
Several have said that they believe I am still qualified, but I'd like
to have more than a pat on the back.


Thanks for any help,

dave

Noorah101

www.ailalawyer.com. Perhaps a 1-time consultation with an attorney will be able to get your specific questions answered.

Rene

Bob

probably better off asking an Italian immigration lawyer than a US immigration though...

to the OP, might want to, if your male, looking into national service requirements, because if you didn't do it, that might make an issue of it...but then again, I think they've finally stopped national service recently.

JAJ

That's the crux of it. Some countries have laws that revoke the citizenship of a child adopted out to foreign parents. While others do not. You need to find out which category Italy falls into.

Not many in the U.S. are likely to know the answer to this. You need to discuss with the Italian authorities, and if they don't help, find an Italian lawyer who understands nationality issues. At a push, an American lawyer who regularly deals with Italian clients might be able to help but don't count on it.

rtdavide

On Apr 13, 8:27 pm, Bob <[email protected]> wrote:
> >www.ailalawyer.com. Perhaps a 1-time consultation with an attorney
> > will be able to get your specific questions answered.
>
> > Rene
>
> probably better off asking an Italian immigration lawyer than a US
> immigration though...
>
> to the OP, might want to, if your male, looking into national service
> requirements, because if you didn't do it, that might make an issue
> of it...but then again, I think they've finally stopped national
> service recently.
>
> --
> Posted viahttp://britishexpats.com

I posted the question on an italian adoption site that someone
recommended.
i'll have to wait and see what comes of that.
i'm just past the age for military/national service requirements.

Heather142

I am not sure this is of any help .. but ... my husband was adopted and his biological sister applied for an immigrant visa for him and it was approved. His birth certificate shows his biological mother and was marked as 'adopted' but was accepted as proof of relationship. A lawyer we spoke to many years ago could not see any difference in a visa for an 'adopted in' son as opposed to a visa for a son who was 'adopted out'.

Heather

rtdavide

On Apr 17, 2:53 pm, Heather142 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I have a question on citizenship/nationality that I'm not sure where
> > to find a definitive answer.
> > I was born with dual American/Italian citizenship through the jure
> > sanguinis laws in Italy.
> > My mother, though born here in the states, was born to an Italian
> > immigrant that had yet to naturalize. So his Italian citizenship was
> > passed to her and then to me as well.
> > But here is where it gets tricky: I was adopted OUT of that family as
> > an infant to parents with only American citizenship.
> > Italian law seems to provide that Italian citizenship is not lost in
> > article 11 of its citizenship law:
> > "The citizen who possesses, acquires or regains a foreign citizenship
> > shall keep the Italian one. Nevertheless he may renounce the Italian
> > citizenship if he resides or settles down abroad."
> >http://www.legislationline.org/legislation.php?tid&lid 36
>
> > >From the European Convention on Nationality, Strasbourg 6.XI.1997
> >http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en...s/Html/166.htm
> > Article 7 says:
> > 1. A State Party may not provide in its internal law for the loss of
> > its nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State Party
> > except
> > in the following cases: g. adoption of a child if the child
> > acquires
> > or possesses the foreign nationality of one or both of the adopting
> > parents.
>
> > Which says that a member state, such as Italy, I suppose has the right
> > to provide for loss of citizenship in the case of adoption by
> > foreigners, like Germany, but is not required to do so.
> > Article 14 says:
> > "A state party shall allow children having different nationalities
> > acquired automatically at birth to retain these nationalities"
> > Again, rather than requiring the maintenance of dual citizenship, it
> > merely allows for it.
>
> > And it seems like Italian law allows it. Unlike the German laws which
> > specifically mention that adoption forfeits any previously held
> > citizenships and the fact that German law prohibits dual citizenship,
> > Italian law does seem to allow it.
> > Now, given that I was born, adopted and currently reside on American
> > soil, but am applying through the Italian consulate for recognition of
> > Italian citizenship: what would be the determiner- Italian adoption
> > laws, American adoption laws, both?
>
> > I have asked this question at the consulate and they don't seem to
> > know specifically, but have said they will check into it. I have never
> > heard back, so I am trying to research the question as much as
> > possible.
>
> > I know that typically adoption means that the adopted child loses all
> > rights pertaining to the biological parents, but the issue of
> > nationality seems like it may actually transcend that.
> > I'd like to know before I continue down an expensive path if I'm
> > wasting time on something that will end up shut off to me.
>
> > If this is not the forum for such questions, does anyone have
> > recommendations where I might ask such a thing?
> > I have tried several of the forums concerning citizenship jure
> > sanguinis, but my case is sort of different and no one seems sure.
> > Several have said that they believe I am still qualified, but I'd like
> > to have more than a pat on the back.
>
> > Thanks for any help,
>
> > dave
>
> I am not sure this is of any help .. but ... my husband was adopted and
> his biological sister applied for an immigrant visa for him and it was
> approved. His birth certificate shows his biological mother and was
> marked as 'adopted' but was accepted as proof of relationship. A lawyer
> we spoke to many years ago could not see any difference in a visa for an
> 'adopted in' son as opposed to a visa for a son who was 'adopted out'.
>
> Heather
>
> --
> Posted viahttp://britishexpats.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Actually, that sounds like good news. Any time I hear that someone in
a similar situation had no problem, then it gives me more reason to
believe that things will work out in my favor.
The lawyers statement seems to be a confirmation of what I suspect:
that citizenship/nationality is untouched by adoption in certain
cases. I know some places won't allow it, but as long as the specific
countries do, it shouldn't be a problem.

But that said, I would really like to have specific laws in hand, just
in case.
i'm trying to approach this as if I need to legally prove that I am
eligible.
My birth citizenship may still be intact because there are laws that
specifically say so, or it could be intact because there is nothing
written in the laws that would prevent it. I'm hoping to find a law
that specifically says I retain my birth citizenship despite the
adoption. That would be a clear indication to the consulate that my
application should go through.