the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
#31
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
I understand that in some states there are citations for certain crimes that indeed "count" as an arrest, but from what I've been told being issued a speeding ticket in Oregon does not constitute an arrest.
#32
Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
You weren't free to go until you'd signed the summons -- it was an arrest.
#33
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
I'm still baffled by this... I don't mean to be an argumentative bastard, I'm just trying to figure it out for curiosity's sake.
I've discussed at length with my OH who's a lawyer and I still cannot understand how such a minor a traffic ticket, an infraction, can be considered an arrest.
There seem to be two schools of thought... one suggests that when you are given a minor traffic citation, you have effectively been arrested, booked, and released on your own recognizance until you appear in court or pay the fine. Another suggests that when you sign the ticket you are simply promising to appear in court or pay a fine and thus there is no need to arrest you and/or hold you until the court date. The ticket does therefore not constitute an arrest, whether you sign it nor not -- you have simply been cited and released (temporarily detained at most). In some states by all accounts you don't even have to sign the ticket.
I know if probably varies by state and I'm being pedantic, but the USCIS started it!
In addition, if all citations are technically arrests then why are they distinguished on the N400 form (which asks if you've been "cited, arrested or detained")?
I've discussed at length with my OH who's a lawyer and I still cannot understand how such a minor a traffic ticket, an infraction, can be considered an arrest.
There seem to be two schools of thought... one suggests that when you are given a minor traffic citation, you have effectively been arrested, booked, and released on your own recognizance until you appear in court or pay the fine. Another suggests that when you sign the ticket you are simply promising to appear in court or pay a fine and thus there is no need to arrest you and/or hold you until the court date. The ticket does therefore not constitute an arrest, whether you sign it nor not -- you have simply been cited and released (temporarily detained at most). In some states by all accounts you don't even have to sign the ticket.
I know if probably varies by state and I'm being pedantic, but the USCIS started it!
In addition, if all citations are technically arrests then why are they distinguished on the N400 form (which asks if you've been "cited, arrested or detained")?
#34
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
The Miranda warning isn't mandatory, doesn't have to happen immediately after you are arrested and may not happen at all.
Now, if you don't get a Miranda warning then the police may have a problem with using what you have said to them into evidence but the fact that you didn't get a warning certainly doesn't indicate that you have not been arrested.
#35
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
I think that the N400 is just trying to cast the net as wide as possible to make sure that you declare anything and everything that even might be considered one of the above ...
#36
Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
The cop wrote the citation. Failure to "Mirandize" precludes use of any statement made by the driver.
#37
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
I'm confused as to the difference between being detained and being arrested - if there is such a difference.
#38
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
I think there's a difference. A definition that explains where I'm coming from:
citation n. 1) a notice to appear in court due to the probable commission of a minor crime such as a traffic violation, failure to keep a dog on a leash, drinking liquor in a park where prohibited, letting a dog loose without a leash, and in some states for possession of a small amount of marijuana. Failure to appear can result in a warrant for the citee's arrest.
That last part makes the distinction clear IMO. A citation can *lead* to an arrest. If a citation was an arrest then how can you potentially be arrested again?! The difference between a detention and an arrest is just way to fuzzy for me to get my head around
Regardless of the pedantics in my case, the USCIS has requested information and I shall make my best effort to comply with that request. I will also document those best efforts in case I come up with nothing.
citation n. 1) a notice to appear in court due to the probable commission of a minor crime such as a traffic violation, failure to keep a dog on a leash, drinking liquor in a park where prohibited, letting a dog loose without a leash, and in some states for possession of a small amount of marijuana. Failure to appear can result in a warrant for the citee's arrest.
That last part makes the distinction clear IMO. A citation can *lead* to an arrest. If a citation was an arrest then how can you potentially be arrested again?! The difference between a detention and an arrest is just way to fuzzy for me to get my head around
Regardless of the pedantics in my case, the USCIS has requested information and I shall make my best effort to comply with that request. I will also document those best efforts in case I come up with nothing.
#39
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
I agree with the above definition.
I received via mail a citation to appear in court or attend traffic school. Not a sniff of an arrest.
I received via mail a citation to appear in court or attend traffic school. Not a sniff of an arrest.
#40
Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
It could be very important when you were actually arrested as a criminal defence in certain circumstances. Here, however, it's USCIS's catch-all and a pretty pointless debate. They want to know your encounters with cops where you were doing or thought to be doing something wrong. Since they're above the law anyway and don't currently semm to object to the odd traffic offense or 3, I don't see any point in not giving it to them.
#41
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
well after a few hours of phone work bouncing around the Oregon State Police, Jackson Country Court, Medford Municipal court etc. there was no record of me so I figured that maybe I got the ticket further up I-5 than I remembered. Et voila... Jospehine County Court had me on file and a certified copy of the zero-balance court record is on its way to me.
Turns out I got the ticket in Grants Pass (or Grant's Ass as I prefer to call the delightful place), npot Medford, a year earlier than I thought. So I put the wrong city and the wrong year on the N400. I presume such an inaccuracy won't be a big problem now I have the proof.
Turns out I got the ticket in Grants Pass (or Grant's Ass as I prefer to call the delightful place), npot Medford, a year earlier than I thought. So I put the wrong city and the wrong year on the N400. I presume such an inaccuracy won't be a big problem now I have the proof.
#42
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
Oh heck WF lets see if I get the same notice, I sent mine last week N400 and indicated that I had been arrested on question 16..... a citiation, (red light violation) paid under $500 and no cops but I was under the impression that we had to declare a citation, I did not have an arrest either
I got the yellow letter too- for disclosing a speeding ticket for $210 which I paid a week after getting caught in the speed trap...
(Actually, I cracked up while reading it and for a moment considered xeroxing and framing it.)
Later on, I was surprised when my interviewer asked for evidence on the case. Even though the instructions on the N-400 stated that further documentation was not needed for anything that involved fines under $500 I felt that getting into an argument wasn't the best way to go.
Luckily, I had brought a copy of the citation (and the check I had written) to interview. Seemed to be suffcient proof for the officer...
Good luck with your application!
Rebecca.
#43
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Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
#44
Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
Hi,
I got the yellow letter too- for disclosing a speeding ticket for $210 which I paid a week after getting caught in the speed trap...
(Actually, I cracked up while reading it and for a moment considered xeroxing and framing it.)
Later on, I was surprised when my interviewer asked for evidence on the case. Even though the instructions on the N-400 stated that further documentation was not needed for anything that involved fines under $500 I felt that getting into an argument wasn't the best way to go.
Luckily, I had brought a copy of the citation (and the check I had written) to interview. Seemed to be suffcient proof for the officer...
Good luck with your application!
Rebecca.
I got the yellow letter too- for disclosing a speeding ticket for $210 which I paid a week after getting caught in the speed trap...
(Actually, I cracked up while reading it and for a moment considered xeroxing and framing it.)
Later on, I was surprised when my interviewer asked for evidence on the case. Even though the instructions on the N-400 stated that further documentation was not needed for anything that involved fines under $500 I felt that getting into an argument wasn't the best way to go.
Luckily, I had brought a copy of the citation (and the check I had written) to interview. Seemed to be suffcient proof for the officer...
Good luck with your application!
Rebecca.
I sent the citation and the proof of receipt, and I do have the darling little pic of me going through the red light as the camera clicked me.
I also went to traffic school to stop me getting a point on my licence, lets see I am waiting
#45
Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue
If you've gotten a speeding ticket, do you check "yes" for committing a "crime or offense for which you were not arrested" AND for having "been arrested, cited or detained by law enforcement"?
BAH! Don't want to check yes on 2 things for 1 error, but don't want to "hide" anything either...
BAH! Don't want to check yes on 2 things for 1 error, but don't want to "hide" anything either...