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the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Old Feb 23rd 2010, 6:46 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by meauxna
Do you know which city? If you were pulled on the freeway, I wonder if it wasn't the state police instead of a local cop?
Of course, it could have been a county sheriff, too.
It could well have been an Oregon State Trooper... I hope it was because I really cannot even remember the city. Could have been Ashland, Medford, Grant's Pass... no idea.

Originally Posted by S Folinsky
Precisely, that is the point I am making. If a person is pulled over by the law enforcement officer, and then given a citation, and then allowed to leave upon signing the citation -- that is an arrest.
I understand that in some states there are citations for certain crimes that indeed "count" as an arrest, but from what I've been told being issued a speeding ticket in Oregon does not constitute an arrest.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 7:20 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by wordfool
I understand that in some states there are citations for certain crimes that indeed "count" as an arrest, but from what I've been told being issued a speeding ticket in Oregon does not constitute an arrest.
You weren't free to go until you'd signed the summons -- it was an arrest.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 8:06 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

I'm still baffled by this... I don't mean to be an argumentative bastard, I'm just trying to figure it out for curiosity's sake.

I've discussed at length with my OH who's a lawyer and I still cannot understand how such a minor a traffic ticket, an infraction, can be considered an arrest.

There seem to be two schools of thought... one suggests that when you are given a minor traffic citation, you have effectively been arrested, booked, and released on your own recognizance until you appear in court or pay the fine. Another suggests that when you sign the ticket you are simply promising to appear in court or pay a fine and thus there is no need to arrest you and/or hold you until the court date. The ticket does therefore not constitute an arrest, whether you sign it nor not -- you have simply been cited and released (temporarily detained at most). In some states by all accounts you don't even have to sign the ticket.

I know if probably varies by state and I'm being pedantic, but the USCIS started it!

In addition, if all citations are technically arrests then why are they distinguished on the N400 form (which asks if you've been "cited, arrested or detained")?
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 8:27 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by ian-mstm
I always thought an arrest brought with it a mandatory recitation of your Miranda rights.
No.

The Miranda warning isn't mandatory, doesn't have to happen immediately after you are arrested and may not happen at all.

Now, if you don't get a Miranda warning then the police may have a problem with using what you have said to them into evidence but the fact that you didn't get a warning certainly doesn't indicate that you have not been arrested.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 8:28 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by wordfool
In addition, if all citations are technically arrests then why are they distinguished on the N400 form (which asks if you've been "cited, arrested or detained")?
I think that the N400 is just trying to cast the net as wide as possible to make sure that you declare anything and everything that even might be considered one of the above ...
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 8:34 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by ian-mstm
Isn't that more of a "detainment" than an arrest? I always thought an arrest brought with it a mandatory recitation of your Miranda rights. I could be wrong... wouldn't be the first time!

Ian
The cop wrote the citation. Failure to "Mirandize" precludes use of any statement made by the driver.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 9:24 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by fatbrit
You weren't free to go until you'd signed the summons -- it was an arrest.
If you are involved in a road traffic accident you ar required by law to wait at the scene of the incident and are not allowed to leave untill released by an officer, is that an arrest ?

I'm confused as to the difference between being detained and being arrested - if there is such a difference.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 9:38 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

I think there's a difference. A definition that explains where I'm coming from:

citation n. 1) a notice to appear in court due to the probable commission of a minor crime such as a traffic violation, failure to keep a dog on a leash, drinking liquor in a park where prohibited, letting a dog loose without a leash, and in some states for possession of a small amount of marijuana. Failure to appear can result in a warrant for the citee's arrest.

That last part makes the distinction clear IMO. A citation can *lead* to an arrest. If a citation was an arrest then how can you potentially be arrested again?! The difference between a detention and an arrest is just way to fuzzy for me to get my head around

Regardless of the pedantics in my case, the USCIS has requested information and I shall make my best effort to comply with that request. I will also document those best efforts in case I come up with nothing.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 9:55 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

I agree with the above definition.

I received via mail a citation to appear in court or attend traffic school. Not a sniff of an arrest.
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Old Feb 23rd 2010, 10:15 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by cpe111
If you are involved in a road traffic accident you ar required by law to wait at the scene of the incident and are not allowed to leave untill released by an officer, is that an arrest ?
Nope.

Originally Posted by cpe111
I'm confused as to the difference between being detained and being arrested - if there is such a difference.
It could be very important when you were actually arrested as a criminal defence in certain circumstances. Here, however, it's USCIS's catch-all and a pretty pointless debate. They want to know your encounters with cops where you were doing or thought to be doing something wrong. Since they're above the law anyway and don't currently semm to object to the odd traffic offense or 3, I don't see any point in not giving it to them.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 7:48 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

well after a few hours of phone work bouncing around the Oregon State Police, Jackson Country Court, Medford Municipal court etc. there was no record of me so I figured that maybe I got the ticket further up I-5 than I remembered. Et voila... Jospehine County Court had me on file and a certified copy of the zero-balance court record is on its way to me.

Turns out I got the ticket in Grants Pass (or Grant's Ass as I prefer to call the delightful place), npot Medford, a year earlier than I thought. So I put the wrong city and the wrong year on the N400. I presume such an inaccuracy won't be a big problem now I have the proof.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 7:57 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by Poppy girl
Oh heck WF lets see if I get the same notice, I sent mine last week N400 and indicated that I had been arrested on question 16..... a citiation, (red light violation) paid under $500 and no cops but I was under the impression that we had to declare a citation, I did not have an arrest either
Hi,

I got the yellow letter too- for disclosing a speeding ticket for $210 which I paid a week after getting caught in the speed trap...

(Actually, I cracked up while reading it and for a moment considered xeroxing and framing it.)

Later on, I was surprised when my interviewer asked for evidence on the case. Even though the instructions on the N-400 stated that further documentation was not needed for anything that involved fines under $500 I felt that getting into an argument wasn't the best way to go.

Luckily, I had brought a copy of the citation (and the check I had written) to interview. Seemed to be suffcient proof for the officer...

Good luck with your application!

Rebecca.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 8:06 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by shadowboxer
Hi,
(Actually, I cracked up while reading it and for a moment considered xeroxing and framing it.)
I chuckled too... it's kafka-esque to have a government department tell you that at some point you had been arrested without your knowledge
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Old Feb 25th 2010, 1:49 am
  #44  
 
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

Originally Posted by shadowboxer
Hi,

I got the yellow letter too- for disclosing a speeding ticket for $210 which I paid a week after getting caught in the speed trap...

(Actually, I cracked up while reading it and for a moment considered xeroxing and framing it.)

Later on, I was surprised when my interviewer asked for evidence on the case. Even though the instructions on the N-400 stated that further documentation was not needed for anything that involved fines under $500 I felt that getting into an argument wasn't the best way to go.

Luckily, I had brought a copy of the citation (and the check I had written) to interview. Seemed to be suffcient proof for the officer...

Good luck with your application!

Rebecca.


I sent the citation and the proof of receipt, and I do have the darling little pic of me going through the red light as the camera clicked me.
I also went to traffic school to stop me getting a point on my licence, lets see I am waiting
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Old Mar 13th 2010, 2:12 am
  #45  
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Default Re: the N400 speeding-ticket-as-arrest issue

If you've gotten a speeding ticket, do you check "yes" for committing a "crime or offense for which you were not arrested" AND for having "been arrested, cited or detained by law enforcement"?

BAH! Don't want to check yes on 2 things for 1 error, but don't want to "hide" anything either...
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