inquisitive40

This is the same Texas that wanted to break away and not be a part of the Union? That has often talked about having a fence around their state to control who comes and goes into "their state".
I have been through Texas a couple of times and people seemed fine BUT I have not lived there so I could not be a good judge, all I really know about Texas is from their media coverage as described above.

As for Missouri, I lived there for over a year and they definately were very much "are you from around here?" mentality and that was in St Louis suburbs.

As for hard copies, where do you know of that has any important documents which are all computerized? Banks use paper for setting up accounts, utility companies still use paper for their account setups (signing for your new utility) , as far as I am aware anything which is being applied for in regards of any new account is stil paper based, we can all change stuff to existing accounts paperless but not new accounts.

I personally would not be very comfortable with all my data "only stored" on computer, I know only too well that systems crash and even with the best backups things can still go wrong, one major ISP a few years back lost 100s of users web sites due to a multiple redundent RAID setup having multiple hard drive failure, would people be happy here if they got a letter telling them all their data was lost due to a hardware failure, in reality if it were ALL paperless there might not even be a list with the applicants names left in the system to send a mail out to say that their application was lost due to hardware failure.

Patrick

Folinskyinla

Hi:

I find it hard to believe that you have not heard of ING "Orange" accounts. But then again, you already have to have a bank account with another bank to set up the ING Orange savings account.

inquisitive40

Actually you are correct I have not heard of ING "Orange" accounts. My only experiences here the US with opening up new accounts has been all through paper applications which all had to have id presented to show who you are etc. No matter how things went with paperless filing, it would still need the supporting documents to be presented on paper.

I have many years experience with computers and I really would not be happy with USCIS TOTALLY relying on a computer for it's applications, someone even hacking their system could cause havoc.

Patrick

Folinskyinla

FYI

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/voting2facts.html

http://www.vote.caltech.edu/

J Moreno

Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote:

    > inquisitive40 wrote:

    > > How could you possibly conceive a paperless filing?
    >
    > Oh horrors! :-(

    > > With that system it would be much MORE likely to screw up (a simple
    > > mis-typed name by the applicant would cause the system to lose a file
    > > and maybe even automatically reject an applicant).
    >
    > How do you figure?!? Most likely all those forms would end up being PDF
    > files (knowing the gov) and thus there would be no "keying" on textual
    > fields as name...

Well, PDF files wouldn't be what they *should* use, but it very well
might be what they *would* use....

Look, if iTunes can sell 1,000 songs a minute then the US Government
ought to be able to handle 10,000 applications a day, with a higher
degree of reliability.

--
J. Moreno

inquisitive40

iTunes website could automatically process as many song sales as the server will allow, with NO human intervention except when the system goes down. USCIS handles peoples entire future in the US, it is not selling songs.

Patrick

Hypertweeky

Got that right!!

Andrew DeFaria

inquisitive40 wrote:

    > Actually you are correct I have not heard of ING "Orange" accounts. My
    > only experiences here the US with opening up new accounts has been all
    > through paper applications which all had to have id presented to show
    > who you are etc. No matter how things went with paperless filing, it
    > would still need the supporting documents to be presented on paper.
    > I have many years experience with computers and I really would not be
    > happy with USCIS TOTALLY relying on a computer for it's applications,
    > someone even hacking their system could cause havoc.

I don't think anybodys suggesting 100% computerized and paperless - just
a whole lot more automated than it is now.

--
Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (T)hrowup

Andrew DeFaria

Folinskyinla wrote:

    > FYI
    > http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/voting2facts.html
    > http://www.vote.caltech.edu/

Interesting. Still I have no doubt that electronic voting can be
implemented wrong. Just as I have no doubt that it can be done right.
The problem is that this is the government we are talking about here and
they don't have the best track record with such things....

--
All I want in life is a warm bed, and unlimited power.

trasmus

And you believe everything you see in the media right?? *hmph* Anyway, you can open an account just as easily online these days (and yes I do have an ING account) they even have NETBANK, which is a bank located solely on the internet, which I have had an account for the past 3 years and never have I had a problem with them storing my information. The same with utilities, you can sign up online or over the telephone. Where have you been living?? under a rock? You need to catch up with the times, everything is computerized these days, or should I say ALMOST everything.

Michelle

Andrew DeFaria

inquisitive40 wrote:

    > iTunes website could automatically process as many song sales as the
    > server will allow, with NO human intervention except when the system
    > goes down. USCIS handles peoples entire future in the US, it is not
    > selling songs.

I agree that there are certain aspects of the process that just have to
be done with a qualified human being making judgments and validating the
authenticity of paper documents. This is not to say, however, that there
are not huge portions of the process that can and should be a lot more
automated.

If the IRS can accept electronically filed tax returns often dealing
with huge amounts of money then I see no reason why a lot of the current
processes in the USCIS could not be made much more efficient and
automated. Then again it takes them 10 years to create a database... But
I digress...

Sometimes there are technological stumbling blocks. But more often there
are just mental stumbling blocks and resistance to change that hold up
things a lot more than the ability to technologically achieve
automation. For example, I can go online and perform all kinds of
trading of my retirement funds including totally draining them. However
if I move must call up the financial institution in order to change the
address were the statement is sent! Why can't I do that online? Some
stupid law for my "protection". I'm much more concerned with some hacker
draining my accounts than receiving my statements!

Then again, if the world was a sensible place men would ride side
saddled! :-)

--
Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone
going faster is a maniac?

J Moreno

inquisitive40 <[email protected]> wrote:

    > iTunes website could automatically process as many song sales as the
    > server will allow, with NO human intervention except when the system
    > goes down. USCIS handles peoples entire future in the US, it is not se-
    > lling songs.

You say that like peoples lives don't depend upon computers every
single day in this country....they do.

And as if buildings don't burn down, sprinklers go off or toliets back
up and flood a room, people trip and a file end up in a trash bin,
typo's made on paper forms, mail simply thrown away.

We use computers not because they are spiffy little machines, but
because they make things faster and more reliable.

--
J. Moreno

Matthew Udall

Just like Andrew's comparison of Google and the USCIS, I'll bet (but I don't know for sure) that the iTunes (whatever that is) relies on automation. When it comes to the USCIS, sure, they can set up something where "data" from a form could be delivered to them with blinding speed. But someone still has to send them "evidence" to substantiate their claim for the benefit they are seeking. OK, lets buy the Service Centers an array of scanners and have them scan everything into the electronic case file (although that "will" slow things down getting that done). So now the officer has the electronic case file. No amount of automation is going to eliminate the need for that officer to carefully examine the data and evidence, do the security checks required, and then apply the body of complicated immigration law to this person's unique situation and then render an opinion (approval, denial, RFE sent).

Actually, with the little experience I've had so far with e-filing and the USCIS, I absolutely "hate" the e-filing systems. Took "more" of my time than with the old system, never sure that they received what I sent when hitting the submit button, still have to send in physical evidence and hope it gets lined up with the file, etc. I like the old way of stuffing the forms, evidence and payment into one mailing, and knowing all arrived together.

Leslie

That makes a lot of sense. You'll base your opinion on something you heard from some vague un-named media source as opposed to what you actually experienced yourself.

Sheesh......

inquisitive40

And Americans don't think of Ireland full of Leprachauns and green fields and mountains??
Patrick