ITIN for visa waiver Canuck

Old Aug 8th 2003, 10:02 am
  #1  
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Default ITIN for visa waiver Canuck

I'm from Canada, but I spend most summers and christmas holidays in California under a visa waiver. I want to open a bank account here and obtain a california driver's license (I was pulled over a given a ticket for only having an Alberta license, despite repeatedly explaining that I'm not a resident of California - although I did purchase the car in California, so its registered there). I have been told I can do these things with an ITIN. I called the IRS for over 50 minutes and the 4th representative just read the W-7 form to me.

Does anyone know if I can apply for an ITIN under these circumstances?

Also, as a side note, why would one need an ITIN to file a tax return if they were not eligible to work (and thus not eligible for a SSN)??

Thanks in advance for your help!
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Old Aug 8th 2003, 12:23 pm
  #2  
S B
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Default Re: ITIN for visa waiver Canuck

kevin23 wrote:
    >
    > I'm from Canada, but I spend most summers and christmas holidays in
    > California under a visa waiver.

No you're not under a visa waiver. You're a Canadian and do not need a
visa ... end of story. The visa waiver is something entirely different.

    > I want to open a bank account here and
    > obtain a california driver's license (I was pulled over a given a ticket
    > for only having an Alberta license, despite repeatedly explaining that
    > I'm not a resident of California - although I did purchase the car in
    > California, so its registered there). I have been told I can do these
    > things with an ITIN. I called the IRS for over 50 minutes and the 4th
    > representative just read the W-7 form to me.

You are doing things that are very risky to your presence in the US.

First, it's no wonder that you got a ticket, and quite rightly so,
because your car registration, if it's in your name, says very clearly
that you are a resident of California, even if your DL is an Alberta
license. In buying and registering that car in California, you are
declaring yourself resident of California, therefore your DL must be
from California, for which you will forfeit your Alberta license. An
ITIN may not get you a DL. ITINs take MONTHS to get.

Opening a bank accound is generally not required by aliens, although not
unheard of, and does require an ITIN.

    > Does anyone know if I can apply for an ITIN under these circumstances?
    >
    > Also, as a side note, why would one need an ITIN to file a tax return if
    > they were not eligible to work (and thus not eligible for a SSN)??

If you spend more than 6 months per year in the US (and sometimes less),
you are potentially liable for income tax for the whole year in the US
from world income!


Opening a bank account, owning a US registered car, having a US drivers
license are all things associated with residence in the US. You must
have strong ties to Canada to offset these in Immigration's eyes. If
you appear at the border and the US Imm. officer gets wind of these
things, chance of a refused entry skyrocket.


Get rid of the US car, get rid of the DL, forget the bank account. They
will only cause you grief.

Otherwise, immigrate legitimately to the US.
 
Old Aug 14th 2003, 11:04 pm
  #3  
Blatt
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Default Re: ITIN for visa waiver Canuck

S B <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected] da.ca>...

    > First, it's no wonder that you got a ticket, and quite rightly so,
    > because your car registration, if it's in your name, says very clearly
    > that you are a resident of California, even if your DL is an Alberta
    > license. In buying and registering that car in California, you are
    > declaring yourself resident of California, therefore your DL must be
    > from California, for which you will forfeit your Alberta license. An
    > ITIN may not get you a DL. ITINs take MONTHS to get.

That is simply untrue. Car registration is required if the owner of
the vehicle is resident and it is required if the owner of the vehicle
does business in the state and it is espeically required if the car is
garaged there. Years ago I was required to have both NJ and NY plates
on the same vehicle. I did not need a NJ driver license.

The obligation to have a driver license depends on residence. Some
states (Fla.) allow a second license (normally you can only have one
North American license) but mark it "valid only in Florida". If you
don't live in California more than the period specified in the law you
can still drive a California registered vehicle.

As a practical matter you could register the car in a LLC or other
entity. Putting your US property in a LLC has certain tax advantages,
of which the most important is not constituting an element of domicile
(as to which the US law differs from the Canadian) or residence.

And you should plead not guilty to the ticket, and carry around proof
of adcquittal.

TINs should take no time at all. Certain numbers can be obtained
online or by phone by accountants and lawyers. I got one in 10
minutes.
 
Old Aug 15th 2003, 5:08 am
  #4  
S B
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Default Re: ITIN for visa waiver Canuck

Blatt wrote:
    >
    > S B <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
    >
    > > First, it's no wonder that you got a ticket, and quite rightly so,
    > > because your car registration, if it's in your name, says very clearly
    > > that you are a resident of California, even if your DL is an Alberta
    > > license. In buying and registering that car in California, you are
    > > declaring yourself resident of California, therefore your DL must be
    > > from California, for which you will forfeit your Alberta license. An
    > > ITIN may not get you a DL. ITINs take MONTHS to get.
    >
    > That is simply untrue. Car registration is required if the owner of
    > the vehicle is resident and it is required if the owner of the vehicle
    > does business in the state and it is espeically required if the car is
    > garaged there. Years ago I was required to have both NJ and NY plates
    > on the same vehicle. I did not need a NJ driver license.
    >
    > The obligation to have a driver license depends on residence. Some
    > states (Fla.) allow a second license (normally you can only have one
    > North American license) but mark it "valid only in Florida". If you
    > don't live in California more than the period specified in the law you
    > can still drive a California registered vehicle.
    >
    > As a practical matter you could register the car in a LLC or other
    > entity. Putting your US property in a LLC has certain tax advantages,
    > of which the most important is not constituting an element of domicile
    > (as to which the US law differs from the Canadian) or residence.
    >
    > And you should plead not guilty to the ticket, and carry around proof
    > of adcquittal.

You said it ... car registration is required if you are resident. Since
he bought and registered a car in the state, he declared himself to be
resident. Drivers licenses are also required as a result of residence.
So because he declared himself resident for the car reg. he clearly
needed a CA DL.

Drivers licenses are different from registrations in that by agreement
you can only have a license in one state at a time as a result of the
North American Drivers License Compact.

Not all states require registration as a result of working in the state.
Most simply base it on factual residence. Also, most states do have
agreements for people that work in one state and live in where there is
a "regular place of work" as definition of residence requirement so that
they do not require the purchase of plates in both jurisdictions. NJ/NY
may be an exception.

He may get a sympathetic judge, but I doubt it.

    > TINs should take no time at all. Certain numbers can be obtained
    > online or by phone by accountants and lawyers. I got one in 10
    > minutes.

Depends on where you are ... in many areas ITINS take months.
 
Old Aug 16th 2003, 6:36 am
  #5  
Oliver
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Default Re: ITIN for visa waiver Canuck

S B <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected] da.ca>...

    > You said it ... car registration is required if you are resident. Since
    > he bought and registered a car in the state, he declared himself to be
    > resident. Drivers licenses are also required as a result of residence.
    > So because he declared himself resident for the car reg. he clearly
    > needed a CA DL.
    >

Ridiculous. You can't "declare" yourself resident. You are either
resident or you are not. I've bought lots of cars in states where I
wasn't resident, and registered them or not in that state as I chose.
Of course I had benefit of the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief Act,
but even if I hadn't, registering the car would NOT have been a
statement of registration.

And I was a JAG officer trained to deal with this very subject.

Furthermore, it is NOT true that you can only have one license. But
others are SUPPOSED to be endorsed "valid in [Florida] onlyt". Many
states REQUIRE licenses if you stay there longer than X days [30?,
60?, 183?].

Military are, again, exempt.

I carried a Guamanian license for years, and I was only in Guam 11
months.

If a car is used for business in a state (carrying salesman's
samples...) and is not registered there, the driver may be in trouble.
Your mileage may vary on this, To a lot of state, registration is a
TAX, and states guard their tax rights jealously. I have dealt with
many cases of double taxation without relief. Sympathy of a judge is
irrelevant: I've seen the state tax commission appeal if the judge was
"sympathetic" to the point of ignoring the law.

TINs are national now. Last one I got came from Ogden, Utah, prefix
80- . I was calling from NYC.

There is more misinformation on newsgroups than among jailhouse
lawyers.
 
Old Aug 18th 2003, 3:59 pm
  #6  
S B
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: ITIN for visa waiver Canuck

Oliver wrote:
    >
    > S B <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
    >
    > > You said it ... car registration is required if you are resident. Since
    > > he bought and registered a car in the state, he declared himself to be
    > > resident. Drivers licenses are also required as a result of residence.
    > > So because he declared himself resident for the car reg. he clearly
    > > needed a CA DL.
    > >
    >
    > Ridiculous. You can't "declare" yourself resident. You are either
    > resident or you are not. I've bought lots of cars in states where I
    > wasn't resident, and registered them or not in that state as I chose.
    > Of course I had benefit of the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief Act,
    > but even if I hadn't, registering the car would NOT have been a
    > statement of registration.
    >
    > And I was a JAG officer trained to deal with this very subject.
    >
    > Furthermore, it is NOT true that you can only have one license. But
    > others are SUPPOSED to be endorsed "valid in [Florida] onlyt". Many
    > states REQUIRE licenses if you stay there longer than X days [30?,
    > 60?, 183?].
    >
    > Military are, again, exempt.
    >
    > I carried a Guamanian license for years, and I was only in Guam 11
    > months.
    >
    > If a car is used for business in a state (carrying salesman's
    > samples...) and is not registered there, the driver may be in trouble.
    > Your mileage may vary on this, To a lot of state, registration is a
    > TAX, and states guard their tax rights jealously. I have dealt with
    > many cases of double taxation without relief. Sympathy of a judge is
    > irrelevant: I've seen the state tax commission appeal if the judge was
    > "sympathetic" to the point of ignoring the law.
    >
    > TINs are national now. Last one I got came from Ogden, Utah, prefix
    > 80- . I was calling from NYC.
    >
    > There is more misinformation on newsgroups than among jailhouse
    > lawyers.

You need to learn the laws.

If the state belongs to the North American Drivers License Compact, they
can only have one license from a participatory state.

Ridiculous ... He's not a resident ... can't be, so he should not be
able to register the car in the USA, but he did. On the basis that he
registered the car, the police have no choice but to charge him with not
having a drivers license. If he gets off on the DL charge then he's
been driving an unregistered car, because it was not legally registered.

ITINs might be national, but applying through some offices are still
ridiculously slow.
 
Old Aug 21st 2003, 6:29 am
  #7  
Eliah Grabbet
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ITIN for visa waiver Canuck

S B <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
    >>
    > Ridiculous ... He's not a resident ... can't be, so he should not be
    > able to register the car in the USA, but he did. On the basis that he
    > registered the car, the police have no choice but to charge him with not
    > having a drivers license. If he gets off on the DL charge then he's
    > been driving an unregistered car, because it was not legally registered.
    >
    > ITINs might be national, but applying through some offices are still
    > ridiculously slow.

Why shouldn't a non-resident be able to register a car? Should, for
example, foreign students or workers not be able to have cars in the
US? I have even known someone who came as a tourist, bought a cheap
car (<$500), and drove it around the states and sold it before he
left. He must have registered it somehow, getting insurance must have
been the bigger problem.
 
Old Aug 21st 2003, 8:58 am
  #8  
S B
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: ITIN for visa waiver Canuck

Eliah Grabbet wrote:
    >
    > S B <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected] da.ca>...
    > >>
    > > Ridiculous ... He's not a resident ... can't be, so he should not be
    > > able to register the car in the USA, but he did. On the basis that he
    > > registered the car, the police have no choice but to charge him with not
    > > having a drivers license. If he gets off on the DL charge then he's
    > > been driving an unregistered car, because it was not legally registered.
    > >
    > > ITINs might be national, but applying through some offices are still
    > > ridiculously slow.
    >
    > Why shouldn't a non-resident be able to register a car? Should, for
    > example, foreign students or workers not be able to have cars in the
    > US? I have even known someone who came as a tourist, bought a cheap
    > car (<$500), and drove it around the states and sold it before he
    > left. He must have registered it somehow, getting insurance must have
    > been the bigger problem.

How can you register something when you don't have an address?

Foreign Students and workers do have the ability to be considered
resident albeit temporarily.
 

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