The INS -- there's your problem
Mar 23rd 2002, 1:05 pm
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
Alf <[email protected]> wrote in message
news
[email protected]...
> i think pakistanis never involve in terrorist activities in US. most terrorist acts
> are usually carried out by arabs (no offense).
Oh, yes. And of course there are no Pakistanis sheltering members of Al Quada in
Pakistan right now, and there weren't a large number of Taliban supports (and Taliban
as well) from Pakistan and...
What, are you kidding???
news
[email protected]...> i think pakistanis never involve in terrorist activities in US. most terrorist acts
> are usually carried out by arabs (no offense).
Oh, yes. And of course there are no Pakistanis sheltering members of Al Quada in
Pakistan right now, and there weren't a large number of Taliban supports (and Taliban
as well) from Pakistan and...
What, are you kidding???
Mar 23rd 2002, 1:35 pm
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
From CNN
"Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four has ties to
terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the men". Read the article at
www.cnn.com. None of them is on the terrorist list. They are just trying to feed
their families. Just like you.....
We have thousand of Mexican, Cuban, Indian, and European entering the country
illegally everyday, but we don't do anything about it. Why are we making such a big
deal about these 4 people? Hum...maybe they are Muslim? Or just because they are
from Pakistan?
Oh - by the way, don't forget to look in the mirror before you go to bad.....you
aren't white either.
"James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No news here. The INS/State Dept./Border Patrol has been bumbling things for YEARS.
> I suspect even with all this terrorist stuff we'll still see alot more of this
> nonsense to come. Have no fear about that!!
>
> Ziglar can cry all he wants. He's still a damn bureaucrat just like the rest of the
> INS folks.
>
> "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > The INS in the past few weeks has been shown to be complete morons.
Today,
> > the story on the news is of the INS allowing 4 Pakistanis in, one of
which
> > is on their terrorist list. They were on a Croatian ship in Virginia.
As
> > you know, according to INS rules the only people permitted a land pass
are
> > those from visa waiver countries, or those who have visas. These 4 Pakistanis
> > didn't have visas, so what does the INS officer do? --He
gives
> > them a land pass anyway, and the 4 of them disappear into the night.
Also,
> > since 9/11, the INS has ruled not to give land passes to any Pakistani sailors
> > anyway.
> >
> > This just goes to show the sort of orginisation you are dealing with.
Little
> > wonder that it takes seemingly a life time to get your paperwork
processed!
"Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four has ties to
terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the men". Read the article at
www.cnn.com. None of them is on the terrorist list. They are just trying to feed
their families. Just like you.....
We have thousand of Mexican, Cuban, Indian, and European entering the country
illegally everyday, but we don't do anything about it. Why are we making such a big
deal about these 4 people? Hum...maybe they are Muslim? Or just because they are
from Pakistan?
Oh - by the way, don't forget to look in the mirror before you go to bad.....you
aren't white either.
"James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No news here. The INS/State Dept./Border Patrol has been bumbling things for YEARS.
> I suspect even with all this terrorist stuff we'll still see alot more of this
> nonsense to come. Have no fear about that!!
>
> Ziglar can cry all he wants. He's still a damn bureaucrat just like the rest of the
> INS folks.
>
> "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > The INS in the past few weeks has been shown to be complete morons.
Today,
> > the story on the news is of the INS allowing 4 Pakistanis in, one of
which
> > is on their terrorist list. They were on a Croatian ship in Virginia.
As
> > you know, according to INS rules the only people permitted a land pass
are
> > those from visa waiver countries, or those who have visas. These 4 Pakistanis
> > didn't have visas, so what does the INS officer do? --He
gives
> > them a land pass anyway, and the 4 of them disappear into the night.
Also,
> > since 9/11, the INS has ruled not to give land passes to any Pakistani sailors
> > anyway.
> >
> > This just goes to show the sort of orginisation you are dealing with.
Little
> > wonder that it takes seemingly a life time to get your paperwork
processed!
Mar 23rd 2002, 2:05 pm
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
"Alf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] m>...
> What I don't understand is that this kind of case (foreigner that is not supposed
> to enter US is allowed anyway) happens frequently, regardless what country they
> come from and what their race is. I bet there are many from europe enter US just
> like the pakistanis. I think what I should've said to the original poster is that
> "what are you complaining about?" or "so what's new?"
Well, short of chipping everybody and tracking them 24/7, shooting suspected
criminals and terrorists on site and building a huge wall around the USA, allowing no
one in or out, the unfriendly element is always likely to cross our borders. There is
nothing we can do to stop them that would make our lives enjoyable or even liveable.
I like the idea of better national security, but not at the expense of my freedom and
civil rights, sorry.
>
> I think it's because the september tragedy that everyone become way to aware of
> the situation that any foreigner that can enter US, some people blame INS for
> no reason.
People often overlook that terrorists are not necessarily foreigners. McVeigh and
Kaczynski were natural born US citizens.
> INS is ineffective or incompetent in one way, and if something happens, these
> people relate their ineffectiveness in other parts (fiancee visas, or border
> patrol, etc what have you). Uh, hold on, maybe they are incompetent in
> everything... I should shut up now.
They are. I take it you've never dealt with them. What do you expect? The syatem is
overloaded. The system is staffed by underpaid and overworked federal employees who
have secure jobs and labor unions to back them up. Do they care? Do they have any
incentive to care? Hell no!
news:<[email protected] m>...
> What I don't understand is that this kind of case (foreigner that is not supposed
> to enter US is allowed anyway) happens frequently, regardless what country they
> come from and what their race is. I bet there are many from europe enter US just
> like the pakistanis. I think what I should've said to the original poster is that
> "what are you complaining about?" or "so what's new?"
Well, short of chipping everybody and tracking them 24/7, shooting suspected
criminals and terrorists on site and building a huge wall around the USA, allowing no
one in or out, the unfriendly element is always likely to cross our borders. There is
nothing we can do to stop them that would make our lives enjoyable or even liveable.
I like the idea of better national security, but not at the expense of my freedom and
civil rights, sorry.
>
> I think it's because the september tragedy that everyone become way to aware of
> the situation that any foreigner that can enter US, some people blame INS for
> no reason.
People often overlook that terrorists are not necessarily foreigners. McVeigh and
Kaczynski were natural born US citizens.
> INS is ineffective or incompetent in one way, and if something happens, these
> people relate their ineffectiveness in other parts (fiancee visas, or border
> patrol, etc what have you). Uh, hold on, maybe they are incompetent in
> everything... I should shut up now.
They are. I take it you've never dealt with them. What do you expect? The syatem is
overloaded. The system is staffed by underpaid and overworked federal employees who
have secure jobs and labor unions to back them up. Do they care? Do they have any
incentive to care? Hell no!
Mar 23rd 2002, 2:05 pm
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> James Donovan wrote:
>
> > "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >> Alf <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news[email protected]...
> >>
> >>> i think pakistanis never involve in terrorist activities in US. most terrorist
> >>> acts are usually carried out by arabs (no offense).
> >>
> >> That is not my point. Indeed the Pakistani President is an admirable man,
> >
> > No. He had no choice but to support the US,
>
> And, admirably he "chose" to support the US.
It was either of two choices:
1. Support the USA and be assured that there would not be airstrikes or military
action on Pakistan in the event UBL decides to hide out there.
2. Defy the USA and end up like Saddam.
>
> > because Pakistan would have been next after Afghanistan.
>
> The Taliban didn't chose to support the US and they were first on the list!
Alot of the Taliban's members are Pakis. Alot of Pakis went to fight Jihad when the
US began military action. Their belief is that if they become martyrs and die during
the jihad, they would go to heaven and have sex with virgins for all eternity.
>
> >> as well as the Pakistani people..
> >
> > Those peaceful pakistani people are currently causing hell for Indians. Those
> > peaceful pakistani people were burning American flags on September 11. Those
> > peaceful PAKI's were shouting "Death to israel", "death to the USA." after
> > september 11. Tha majority of the Pakistan people didn't agree with musharraf's
> > decision to support the USA.
>
> Some Pakistani not all.
Tha majority. The decision by Musharraf to support the US was a very unpopular one.
news:<[email protected]>...
> James Donovan wrote:
>
> > "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >> Alf <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news
[email protected]...> >>
> >>> i think pakistanis never involve in terrorist activities in US. most terrorist
> >>> acts are usually carried out by arabs (no offense).
> >>
> >> That is not my point. Indeed the Pakistani President is an admirable man,
> >
> > No. He had no choice but to support the US,
>
> And, admirably he "chose" to support the US.
It was either of two choices:
1. Support the USA and be assured that there would not be airstrikes or military
action on Pakistan in the event UBL decides to hide out there.
2. Defy the USA and end up like Saddam.
>
> > because Pakistan would have been next after Afghanistan.
>
> The Taliban didn't chose to support the US and they were first on the list!
Alot of the Taliban's members are Pakis. Alot of Pakis went to fight Jihad when the
US began military action. Their belief is that if they become martyrs and die during
the jihad, they would go to heaven and have sex with virgins for all eternity.
>
> >> as well as the Pakistani people..
> >
> > Those peaceful pakistani people are currently causing hell for Indians. Those
> > peaceful pakistani people were burning American flags on September 11. Those
> > peaceful PAKI's were shouting "Death to israel", "death to the USA." after
> > september 11. Tha majority of the Pakistan people didn't agree with musharraf's
> > decision to support the USA.
>
> Some Pakistani not all.
Tha majority. The decision by Musharraf to support the US was a very unpopular one.
Mar 23rd 2002, 2:05 pm
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Alf wrote:
>
> > What I don't understand is that this kind of case (foreigner that is not supposed
> > to enter US is allowed anyway) happens frequently, regardless what country they
> > come from and what their race is.
>
> Doesn't make it right.
>
> > I bet there are many from europe enter US just like the pakistanis.
>
> Really? Many people from Europe, on terrorist lists, that waltz into the US without
> close inspection? You must be joking. Lord help us if that's the case.
Not necessarily from Europe. You're right on this one. There is, however, a huge
domestic threat. Fanatical religious and occult groups (anti abortion activists,
white rights groups like the KKK, gay hate groups, nazis etc etc) as well as demented
psychos all pose a threat to our security. Hate does not discriminate.
news:<[email protected]>...
> Alf wrote:
>
> > What I don't understand is that this kind of case (foreigner that is not supposed
> > to enter US is allowed anyway) happens frequently, regardless what country they
> > come from and what their race is.
>
> Doesn't make it right.
>
> > I bet there are many from europe enter US just like the pakistanis.
>
> Really? Many people from Europe, on terrorist lists, that waltz into the US without
> close inspection? You must be joking. Lord help us if that's the case.
Not necessarily from Europe. You're right on this one. There is, however, a huge
domestic threat. Fanatical religious and occult groups (anti abortion activists,
white rights groups like the KKK, gay hate groups, nazis etc etc) as well as demented
psychos all pose a threat to our security. Hate does not discriminate.
Mar 23rd 2002, 2:35 pm
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
stocklover <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> From CNN
>
> "Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four has ties to
> terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the men". Read the article
> at www.cnn.com. None of them is on the terrorist list.
They
> are just trying to feed their families. Just like you.....
According to journalist Carl Cammeron (who broke the story) one of them is indeed on
the terrorist list. Another had been turned down for entry into the US a few times
before as well.
> We have thousand of Mexican, Cuban, Indian, and European entering the country
> illegally everyday, but we don't do anything about it. Why are we making such a big
> deal about these 4 people?
Read the news since 9/11. It would be interesting indeed to see the statistics on the
number of Europeans entering illegally everyday, or every decade for that matter.
(Not counting Eastern Europeans, and I'm sure those numbers are small as well
compared to the others).
Hum...maybe they are Muslim? Or
> just because they are from Pakistan?
Yes, just because they are from Pakistan. That's according to the government, not me.
No Pakistani (and I am sure other Middle Eastern) sailors are to be issued a shore
leave permit according to the INS's own rules. That moron INS officer broke their own
rules. That was my point in the first place.
>
> Oh - by the way, don't forget to look in the mirror before you go to bad.....you
> aren't white either.
>
>
> "James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > No news here. The INS/State Dept./Border Patrol has been bumbling things for
> > YEARS. I suspect even with all this terrorist stuff we'll still see alot more of
> > this nonsense to come. Have no fear about that!!
> >
> > Ziglar can cry all he wants. He's still a damn bureaucrat just like the rest of
> > the INS folks.
> >
> > "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > The INS in the past few weeks has been shown to be complete morons.
> Today,
> > > the story on the news is of the INS allowing 4 Pakistanis in, one of
> which
> > > is on their terrorist list. They were on a Croatian ship in Virginia.
> As
> > > you know, according to INS rules the only people permitted a land pass
> are
> > > those from visa waiver countries, or those who have visas. These 4 Pakistanis
> > > didn't have visas, so what does the INS officer do? --He
> gives
> > > them a land pass anyway, and the 4 of them disappear into the night.
> Also,
> > > since 9/11, the INS has ruled not to give land passes to any Pakistani sailors
> > > anyway.
> > >
> > > This just goes to show the sort of orginisation you are dealing with.
> Little
> > > wonder that it takes seemingly a life time to get your paperwork
> processed!
news:[email protected]...
> From CNN
>
> "Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four has ties to
> terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the men". Read the article
> at www.cnn.com. None of them is on the terrorist list.
They
> are just trying to feed their families. Just like you.....
According to journalist Carl Cammeron (who broke the story) one of them is indeed on
the terrorist list. Another had been turned down for entry into the US a few times
before as well.
> We have thousand of Mexican, Cuban, Indian, and European entering the country
> illegally everyday, but we don't do anything about it. Why are we making such a big
> deal about these 4 people?
Read the news since 9/11. It would be interesting indeed to see the statistics on the
number of Europeans entering illegally everyday, or every decade for that matter.
(Not counting Eastern Europeans, and I'm sure those numbers are small as well
compared to the others).
Hum...maybe they are Muslim? Or
> just because they are from Pakistan?
Yes, just because they are from Pakistan. That's according to the government, not me.
No Pakistani (and I am sure other Middle Eastern) sailors are to be issued a shore
leave permit according to the INS's own rules. That moron INS officer broke their own
rules. That was my point in the first place.
>
> Oh - by the way, don't forget to look in the mirror before you go to bad.....you
> aren't white either.
>
>
> "James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > No news here. The INS/State Dept./Border Patrol has been bumbling things for
> > YEARS. I suspect even with all this terrorist stuff we'll still see alot more of
> > this nonsense to come. Have no fear about that!!
> >
> > Ziglar can cry all he wants. He's still a damn bureaucrat just like the rest of
> > the INS folks.
> >
> > "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > The INS in the past few weeks has been shown to be complete morons.
> Today,
> > > the story on the news is of the INS allowing 4 Pakistanis in, one of
> which
> > > is on their terrorist list. They were on a Croatian ship in Virginia.
> As
> > > you know, according to INS rules the only people permitted a land pass
> are
> > > those from visa waiver countries, or those who have visas. These 4 Pakistanis
> > > didn't have visas, so what does the INS officer do? --He
> gives
> > > them a land pass anyway, and the 4 of them disappear into the night.
> Also,
> > > since 9/11, the INS has ruled not to give land passes to any Pakistani sailors
> > > anyway.
> > >
> > > This just goes to show the sort of orginisation you are dealing with.
> Little
> > > wonder that it takes seemingly a life time to get your paperwork
> processed!
Mar 23rd 2002, 2:35 pm
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
James Donovan <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Alf wrote:
> >
> > > What I don't understand is that this kind of case (foreigner that is not
> > > supposed to enter US is allowed anyway) happens frequently, regardless what
> > > country they come from and what their race is.
> >
> > Doesn't make it right.
> >
> > > I bet there are many from europe enter US just like the pakistanis.
> >
> > Really? Many people from Europe, on terrorist lists, that waltz into the US
> > without close inspection? You must be joking. Lord help us if that's the case.
>
> Not necessarily from Europe. You're right on this one. There is, however, a huge
> domestic threat. Fanatical religious and occult groups (anti abortion activists,
> white rights groups like the KKK, gay hate groups, nazis etc etc) as well as
> demented psychos all pose a threat to our security. Hate does not discriminate.
Yes. Or perhaps to put it more plainly, They might have come from Europe, but are not
European. A lot of those Middle Easterners poured into places like France and the
Netherlands (Amersterdam being a terrorist haven).
news:[email protected]...
> Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Alf wrote:
> >
> > > What I don't understand is that this kind of case (foreigner that is not
> > > supposed to enter US is allowed anyway) happens frequently, regardless what
> > > country they come from and what their race is.
> >
> > Doesn't make it right.
> >
> > > I bet there are many from europe enter US just like the pakistanis.
> >
> > Really? Many people from Europe, on terrorist lists, that waltz into the US
> > without close inspection? You must be joking. Lord help us if that's the case.
>
> Not necessarily from Europe. You're right on this one. There is, however, a huge
> domestic threat. Fanatical religious and occult groups (anti abortion activists,
> white rights groups like the KKK, gay hate groups, nazis etc etc) as well as
> demented psychos all pose a threat to our security. Hate does not discriminate.
Yes. Or perhaps to put it more plainly, They might have come from Europe, but are not
European. A lot of those Middle Easterners poured into places like France and the
Netherlands (Amersterdam being a terrorist haven).
Mar 23rd 2002, 2:35 pm
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
James Donovan wrote:
>> And, admirably he "chose" to support the US.
>
> It was either of two choices:
>
> 1. Support the USA and be assured that there would not be airstrikes or military
> action on Pakistan in the event UBL decides to hide out there.
>
> 2. Defy the USA and end up like Saddam.
Hmmm... Isn't that a choice? (Duh!).
>>> because Pakistan would have been next after Afghanistan.
>>
>> The Taliban didn't chose to support the US and they were first on the list!
>
> Alot of the Taliban's members are Pakis. Alot of Pakis went to fight Jihad when the
> US began military action. Their belief is that if they become martyrs and die
> during the jihad, they would go to heaven and have sex with virgins for all
> eternity.
What the hell does that have to do with anything! Again, the Taliban didn't chose to
support the use and they were first on this list. Whether or not a lot of Taliban
were originally from Pakistan is irrelevent.
>>>> as well as the Pakistani people..
>>>
>>> Those peaceful pakistani people are currently causing hell for Indians. Those
>>> peaceful pakistani people were burning American flags on September 11. Those
>>> peaceful PAKI's were shouting "Death to israel", "death to the USA." after
>>> september 11. Tha majority of the Pakistan people didn't agree with musharraf's
>>> decision to support the USA.
>>
>> Some Pakistani not all.
>
> Tha majority. The decision by Musharraf to support the US was a very unpopular one.
Ah dud #2! Like I said, some Pakistani - not all.
>
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<html> <head> </head> <body> James Donovan wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] gle.com"> <blockquote
type="cite">And, admirably he "chose" to support the US.<br> </blockquote> <!TEST->It
was either of two choices:<br> <br>
1. Support the USA and be assured that there would not be airstrikes or military
action on Pakistan in the event UBL decides to hide out there.<br> <br>
2. Defy the USA and end up like Saddam.</blockquote> Hmmm... Isn't that a choice?
(Duh!).<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] gle.com"> <blockquote
type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite">because Pakistan would have been next after
Afghanistan.<br> </blockquote> The Taliban didn't chose to support the US and they
were first on the list!<br> </blockquote> <!TEST->Alot of the Taliban's members
are Pakis. Alot of Pakis went to fight Jihad when the US began military action.
Their belief is that if they become martyrs and die during the jihad, they would
go to heaven and have sex with virgins for all eternity.</blockquote> What the
hell does that have to do with anything! Again, the Taliban didn't chose to
support the use and they were first on this list. Whether or not a lot of Taliban
were originally from Pakistan is irrelevent.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] gle.com"> <blockquote
type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite">as well as the
Pakistani people..<br> </blockquote> Those peaceful pakistani people are currently
causing hell for Indians. Those peaceful pakistani people were burning
American flags on September
3. Those peaceful PAKI's were shouting "Death to israel", "death to the USA."
after september 11. Tha majority of the Pakistan people didn't agree with
musharraf's decision to support the USA.<br> </blockquote> Some Pakistani not
all.<br> </blockquote> <!TEST->Tha majority. The decision by Musharraf to support
the US was a very unpopular one.</blockquote> Ah dud #2! Like I said, some
Pakistani - not all. <br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] gle.com"><br> </blockquote> <br>
</body> </html
>> And, admirably he "chose" to support the US.
>
> It was either of two choices:
>
> 1. Support the USA and be assured that there would not be airstrikes or military
> action on Pakistan in the event UBL decides to hide out there.
>
> 2. Defy the USA and end up like Saddam.
Hmmm... Isn't that a choice? (Duh!).
>>> because Pakistan would have been next after Afghanistan.
>>
>> The Taliban didn't chose to support the US and they were first on the list!
>
> Alot of the Taliban's members are Pakis. Alot of Pakis went to fight Jihad when the
> US began military action. Their belief is that if they become martyrs and die
> during the jihad, they would go to heaven and have sex with virgins for all
> eternity.
What the hell does that have to do with anything! Again, the Taliban didn't chose to
support the use and they were first on this list. Whether or not a lot of Taliban
were originally from Pakistan is irrelevent.
>>>> as well as the Pakistani people..
>>>
>>> Those peaceful pakistani people are currently causing hell for Indians. Those
>>> peaceful pakistani people were burning American flags on September 11. Those
>>> peaceful PAKI's were shouting "Death to israel", "death to the USA." after
>>> september 11. Tha majority of the Pakistan people didn't agree with musharraf's
>>> decision to support the USA.
>>
>> Some Pakistani not all.
>
> Tha majority. The decision by Musharraf to support the US was a very unpopular one.
Ah dud #2! Like I said, some Pakistani - not all.
>
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<html> <head> </head> <body> James Donovan wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] gle.com"> <blockquote
type="cite">And, admirably he "chose" to support the US.<br> </blockquote> <!TEST->It
was either of two choices:<br> <br>
1. Support the USA and be assured that there would not be airstrikes or military
action on Pakistan in the event UBL decides to hide out there.<br> <br>
2. Defy the USA and end up like Saddam.</blockquote> Hmmm... Isn't that a choice?
(Duh!).<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] gle.com"> <blockquote
type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite">because Pakistan would have been next after
Afghanistan.<br> </blockquote> The Taliban didn't chose to support the US and they
were first on the list!<br> </blockquote> <!TEST->Alot of the Taliban's members
are Pakis. Alot of Pakis went to fight Jihad when the US began military action.
Their belief is that if they become martyrs and die during the jihad, they would
go to heaven and have sex with virgins for all eternity.</blockquote> What the
hell does that have to do with anything! Again, the Taliban didn't chose to
support the use and they were first on this list. Whether or not a lot of Taliban
were originally from Pakistan is irrelevent.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] gle.com"> <blockquote
type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite">as well as the
Pakistani people..<br> </blockquote> Those peaceful pakistani people are currently
causing hell for Indians. Those peaceful pakistani people were burning
American flags on September
3. Those peaceful PAKI's were shouting "Death to israel", "death to the USA."
after september 11. Tha majority of the Pakistan people didn't agree with
musharraf's decision to support the USA.<br> </blockquote> Some Pakistani not
all.<br> </blockquote> <!TEST->Tha majority. The decision by Musharraf to support
the US was a very unpopular one.</blockquote> Ah dud #2! Like I said, some
Pakistani - not all. <br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] gle.com"><br> </blockquote> <br>
</body> </html
Mar 23rd 2002, 3:05 pm
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
stocklover wrote:
> From CNN
>
> "Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four has ties to
> terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the men". Read the article
> at www.cnn.com. None of them is on the terrorist list. The are just trying to feed
> their families. Just like you.....
Well initially it was reported that one of them was on a terrorist or lookout list.
According tohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48581,00.html:
Immigration and Naturalization Service district directors and border patrol
chiefs from across the country met on a "crisis management" conference call
Thursday afternoon in which it was reportedly revealed that one of the four
missing Pakistanis showed up on a "lookout list." Since then, however, checks run
on the Pakistanis suggest that they are on no such lists.
Though I wouldn't put it past the INS to be covering up stuff. Let's face it,
right now they look pretty bad what with giving Atta and friends visas 6 months
after 9/11...
>
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<html> <head> </head> <body> <mixed>stocklover wrote:</mixed> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]" ><mixed> From CNN<br> <br>
"Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four has ties to
terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the men". Read the article at
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.cnn.com">www.cnn.com</a>. None
of them is on the terrorist list. The are just trying to feed their families. Just
like you.....</mixed></blockquote> Well initially it was reported that one of them
was on a terrorist or lookout list. According
tohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48581,00.html:<br> <blockquote> <p
class="storytext">Immigration and Naturalization Service district directors and
border patrol chiefs from across the country met on a "crisis management" conference
call Thursday afternoon in which it was reportedly revealed that one of the four
missing Pakistanis showed up on a "lookout list." Since then, however, checks
run on the Pakistanis suggest that they are on no such lists.</p> </blockquote>
Though I wouldn't put it past the INS to be covering up stuff. Let's face it, right
now they look pretty bad what with giving Atta and friends visas 6 months after
9/11... <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]" ><mixed><br> </mixed></blockquote>
</body> </html
> From CNN
>
> "Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four has ties to
> terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the men". Read the article
> at www.cnn.com. None of them is on the terrorist list. The are just trying to feed
> their families. Just like you.....
Well initially it was reported that one of them was on a terrorist or lookout list.
According tohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48581,00.html:
Immigration and Naturalization Service district directors and border patrol
chiefs from across the country met on a "crisis management" conference call
Thursday afternoon in which it was reportedly revealed that one of the four
missing Pakistanis showed up on a "lookout list." Since then, however, checks run
on the Pakistanis suggest that they are on no such lists.
Though I wouldn't put it past the INS to be covering up stuff. Let's face it,
right now they look pretty bad what with giving Atta and friends visas 6 months
after 9/11...
>
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<html> <head> </head> <body> <mixed>stocklover wrote:</mixed> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]" ><mixed> From CNN<br> <br>
"Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four has ties to
terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the men". Read the article at
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.cnn.com">www.cnn.com</a>. None
of them is on the terrorist list. The are just trying to feed their families. Just
like you.....</mixed></blockquote> Well initially it was reported that one of them
was on a terrorist or lookout list. According
tohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48581,00.html:<br> <blockquote> <p
class="storytext">Immigration and Naturalization Service district directors and
border patrol chiefs from across the country met on a "crisis management" conference
call Thursday afternoon in which it was reportedly revealed that one of the four
missing Pakistanis showed up on a "lookout list." Since then, however, checks
run on the Pakistanis suggest that they are on no such lists.</p> </blockquote>
Though I wouldn't put it past the INS to be covering up stuff. Let's face it, right
now they look pretty bad what with giving Atta and friends visas 6 months after
9/11... <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected]" ><mixed><br> </mixed></blockquote>
</body> </html
Mar 23rd 2002, 3:05 pm
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
James Donovan wrote:
> Well, short of chipping everybody and tracking them 24/7, shooting suspected
> criminals and terrorists on site and building a huge wall around the USA, allowing
> no one in or out, the unfriendly element is always likely to cross our borders.
> There is nothing we can do to stop them that would make our lives enjoyable or even
> liveable.
>
> I like the idea of better national security, but not at the expense of my freedom
> and civil rights, sorry.
I think there is a lot of middle ground between what you decribe above and just
letting everybody walk into the US. While what you describe above seems to strive for
100% security I believe that reasonable, say 80 - 99% security can be achieved
without sacrificing the rights of US citizens.
It is clear that if the INS cannot even handle processing paperwork in a reasonable
amount of time what makes anybody think they can be at all effective at maintain vast
quantites of up to date intelligence data on known bad guys? It's not that people
relate say K1 visa processing with the INS' foulups as of late, rather any rational
person can see that the INS is totally mismanaged from processing paperwork TO
defending our borders. Many people say split the functions up and perhaps that's a
good start however I fear the problems are a lot deeper and spliting them up will not
solve the problems, only make them worse.
> People often overlook that terrorists are not necessarily foreigners. McVeigh and
> Kaczynski were natural born US citizens.
We need to watch out for these too. However, this is not the job of the INS and this
group is about the INS (or rather visa processing). People who look out for the
McVeigh's and Kaczynski's are different agencies like the FBI and CIA. Look for
alt.fbi.* and alt.cai.* for that stuff
!
>> INS is ineffective or incompetent in one way, and if something happens, these
>> people relate their ineffectiveness in other parts (fiancee visas, or border
>> patrol, etc what have you). Uh, hold on, maybe they are incompetent in
>> everything... I should shut up now.
>
>
> They are. I take it you've never dealt with them. What do you expect?
I expect to get good protection of our borders and reasonable processing times for
those who wish to immigrate legally! Or was this a trick question?
> The syatem is overloaded. The system is staffed by underpaid and overworked federal
> employees who have secure jobs and labor unions to back them up. Do they care? Do
> they have any incentive to care? Hell no!
I've read the INS has had 250% increase in funding the last few years. What are we
getting for our money? Maybe the staff is underpaid but that's not because the money
isn't there - that's because the money is being squandered somewhere else.
Essentially a management problem (or worse, a scandle). I did not know that federal
workers had a labor union! Seems to me they have quite enough power already. Do they
care? Demonstrably no. Do they have any incentive to care? Well let's see... If we,
the people paying their salaries, banded together properly we could effect change,
much like a labor union would be able to. If we (congress and the public) want to we
could simply dismantle them and fire them all! That oughta give them some incentive!
#soapbox_mode on (However the truth be told, I have yet to see anybody, even here,
even where immigration minded people, many of whom are being squeezed by the INS,
have banded together for anything. A few days back I suggested doing something. As I
suspected there was little if anybody who was even interested let alone any kind of
mass rush of people willing to pour in say some $$$, ideas or time. The apathey here
is pathetic as I suspected. Perhaps it's that you all are scared of the INS since
you're in process. I don't blame you much except to say "Well then you are getting
what you deserve". Unfortunately I'm also getting the same treatment. Honestly, I can
say that I 've never in my life come up against such an unneccesarily bueacratic
bunch of bumbling idoits that seem to get away with quite literally murder and who
nobody seems to care to try to change as the INS). #soapbox_mode off
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<html> <head> </head> <body> James Donovan wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] le.com"> Well, short of chipping
everybody and tracking them 24/7, shooting suspected criminals and terrorists on site
and building a huge wall around the USA, allowing no one in or out, the unfriendly
element is always likely to cross our borders. There is nothing we can do to stop
them that would make our lives enjoyable or even liveable.<br> <br> I like the idea
of better national security, but not at the expense of my freedom and civil rights,
sorry.</blockquote> I think there is a lot of middle ground between what you decribe
above and just letting everybody walk into the US. While what you describe above
seems to strive for 100% security I believe that reasonable, say 80 - 99% security
can be achieved without sacrificing the rights of US citizens.<br> <br> It is clear
that if the INS cannot even handle processing paperwork in a reasonable amount of
time what makes anybody think they can be at all effective at maintain vast quantites
of up to date intelligence data on known bad guys? It's not that people relate say K1
visa processing with the INS' foulups as of late, rather any rational person can see
that the INS is totally mismanaged from processing paperwork <b>TO</b> defending our
borders. Many people say split the functions up and perhaps that's a good start
however I fear the problems are a lot deeper and spliting them up will not solve the
problems, only make them worse.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] le.com"> People often overlook that
terrorists are not necessarily foreigners. McVeigh and Kaczynski were natural
born US citizens.</blockquote> We need to watch out for these too. However, this is
not the job of the INS and this group is about the INS (or rather visa processing).
People who look out for the McVeigh's and Kaczynski's are different agencies like the
FBI and CIA. Look for alt.fbi.* and alt.cai.* for that stuff <span
-moz-smiley="s1"><span>
</span></span>!<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] le.com"> <blockquote
type="cite">INS is ineffective or incompetent in one way, and if something
happens, these people relate their ineffectiveness in other parts (fiancee
visas, or border patrol, etc what have you). Uh, hold on, maybe they are
incompetent in everything... I should shut up now.<br> </blockquote>
<!TEST-><br> They are. I take it you've never dealt with them. What do you
expect? </blockquote> I expect to get good protection of our borders and
reasonable processing times for those who wish to immigrate legally! Or was this
a trick question?<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] le.com"> The syatem is
overloaded. The system is staffed by underpaid and overworked federal employees
who have secure jobs and labor unions to back them up. Do they care? Do they
have any incentive to care? <br> Hell no!</blockquote> I've read the INS has had
250% increase in funding the last few years. What are we getting for our money?
Maybe the staff is underpaid but that's not because the money isn't there -
that's because the money is being squandered somewhere else. Essentially a
management problem (or worse, a scandle). I did not know that federal workers
had a labor union! Seems to me they have quite enough power already. Do they
care? Demonstrably no. Do they have any incentive to care? Well let's see... If
we, the people paying their salaries, banded together properly we could effect
change, much like a labor union would be able to. If we (congress and the
public) want to we could simply dismantle them and fire them all! That oughta
give them some incentive!<br> <br> #soapbox_mode on<br> (However the truth be
told, I have yet to see anybody, even here, even where immigration minded
people, many of whom are being squeezed by the INS, have banded together for
anything. A few days back I suggested doing something. As I suspected there was
little if anybody who was even interested let alone any kind of mass rush of
people willing to pour in say some $$$, ideas or time. The apathey here is
pathetic as I suspected. Perhaps it's that you all are scared of the INS since
you're in process. I don't blame you much except to say "Well then you are
getting what you deserve". Unfortunately I'm also getting the same treatment.
Honestly, I can say that I 've never in my life come up against such an
unneccesarily bueacratic bunch of bumbling idoits that seem to get away with
quite literally murder and who nobody seems to care to try to change as the
INS).<br> #soapbox_mode off<br> </body> </html
> Well, short of chipping everybody and tracking them 24/7, shooting suspected
> criminals and terrorists on site and building a huge wall around the USA, allowing
> no one in or out, the unfriendly element is always likely to cross our borders.
> There is nothing we can do to stop them that would make our lives enjoyable or even
> liveable.
>
> I like the idea of better national security, but not at the expense of my freedom
> and civil rights, sorry.
I think there is a lot of middle ground between what you decribe above and just
letting everybody walk into the US. While what you describe above seems to strive for
100% security I believe that reasonable, say 80 - 99% security can be achieved
without sacrificing the rights of US citizens.
It is clear that if the INS cannot even handle processing paperwork in a reasonable
amount of time what makes anybody think they can be at all effective at maintain vast
quantites of up to date intelligence data on known bad guys? It's not that people
relate say K1 visa processing with the INS' foulups as of late, rather any rational
person can see that the INS is totally mismanaged from processing paperwork TO
defending our borders. Many people say split the functions up and perhaps that's a
good start however I fear the problems are a lot deeper and spliting them up will not
solve the problems, only make them worse.
> People often overlook that terrorists are not necessarily foreigners. McVeigh and
> Kaczynski were natural born US citizens.
We need to watch out for these too. However, this is not the job of the INS and this
group is about the INS (or rather visa processing). People who look out for the
McVeigh's and Kaczynski's are different agencies like the FBI and CIA. Look for
alt.fbi.* and alt.cai.* for that stuff
!>> INS is ineffective or incompetent in one way, and if something happens, these
>> people relate their ineffectiveness in other parts (fiancee visas, or border
>> patrol, etc what have you). Uh, hold on, maybe they are incompetent in
>> everything... I should shut up now.
>
>
> They are. I take it you've never dealt with them. What do you expect?
I expect to get good protection of our borders and reasonable processing times for
those who wish to immigrate legally! Or was this a trick question?
> The syatem is overloaded. The system is staffed by underpaid and overworked federal
> employees who have secure jobs and labor unions to back them up. Do they care? Do
> they have any incentive to care? Hell no!
I've read the INS has had 250% increase in funding the last few years. What are we
getting for our money? Maybe the staff is underpaid but that's not because the money
isn't there - that's because the money is being squandered somewhere else.
Essentially a management problem (or worse, a scandle). I did not know that federal
workers had a labor union! Seems to me they have quite enough power already. Do they
care? Demonstrably no. Do they have any incentive to care? Well let's see... If we,
the people paying their salaries, banded together properly we could effect change,
much like a labor union would be able to. If we (congress and the public) want to we
could simply dismantle them and fire them all! That oughta give them some incentive!
#soapbox_mode on (However the truth be told, I have yet to see anybody, even here,
even where immigration minded people, many of whom are being squeezed by the INS,
have banded together for anything. A few days back I suggested doing something. As I
suspected there was little if anybody who was even interested let alone any kind of
mass rush of people willing to pour in say some $$$, ideas or time. The apathey here
is pathetic as I suspected. Perhaps it's that you all are scared of the INS since
you're in process. I don't blame you much except to say "Well then you are getting
what you deserve". Unfortunately I'm also getting the same treatment. Honestly, I can
say that I 've never in my life come up against such an unneccesarily bueacratic
bunch of bumbling idoits that seem to get away with quite literally murder and who
nobody seems to care to try to change as the INS). #soapbox_mode off
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<html> <head> </head> <body> James Donovan wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] le.com"> Well, short of chipping
everybody and tracking them 24/7, shooting suspected criminals and terrorists on site
and building a huge wall around the USA, allowing no one in or out, the unfriendly
element is always likely to cross our borders. There is nothing we can do to stop
them that would make our lives enjoyable or even liveable.<br> <br> I like the idea
of better national security, but not at the expense of my freedom and civil rights,
sorry.</blockquote> I think there is a lot of middle ground between what you decribe
above and just letting everybody walk into the US. While what you describe above
seems to strive for 100% security I believe that reasonable, say 80 - 99% security
can be achieved without sacrificing the rights of US citizens.<br> <br> It is clear
that if the INS cannot even handle processing paperwork in a reasonable amount of
time what makes anybody think they can be at all effective at maintain vast quantites
of up to date intelligence data on known bad guys? It's not that people relate say K1
visa processing with the INS' foulups as of late, rather any rational person can see
that the INS is totally mismanaged from processing paperwork <b>TO</b> defending our
borders. Many people say split the functions up and perhaps that's a good start
however I fear the problems are a lot deeper and spliting them up will not solve the
problems, only make them worse.<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] le.com"> People often overlook that
terrorists are not necessarily foreigners. McVeigh and Kaczynski were natural
born US citizens.</blockquote> We need to watch out for these too. However, this is
not the job of the INS and this group is about the INS (or rather visa processing).
People who look out for the McVeigh's and Kaczynski's are different agencies like the
FBI and CIA. Look for alt.fbi.* and alt.cai.* for that stuff <span
-moz-smiley="s1"><span>
</span></span>!<br><blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] le.com"> <blockquote
type="cite">INS is ineffective or incompetent in one way, and if something
happens, these people relate their ineffectiveness in other parts (fiancee
visas, or border patrol, etc what have you). Uh, hold on, maybe they are
incompetent in everything... I should shut up now.<br> </blockquote>
<!TEST-><br> They are. I take it you've never dealt with them. What do you
expect? </blockquote> I expect to get good protection of our borders and
reasonable processing times for those who wish to immigrate legally! Or was this
a trick question?<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email protected] le.com"> The syatem is
overloaded. The system is staffed by underpaid and overworked federal employees
who have secure jobs and labor unions to back them up. Do they care? Do they
have any incentive to care? <br> Hell no!</blockquote> I've read the INS has had
250% increase in funding the last few years. What are we getting for our money?
Maybe the staff is underpaid but that's not because the money isn't there -
that's because the money is being squandered somewhere else. Essentially a
management problem (or worse, a scandle). I did not know that federal workers
had a labor union! Seems to me they have quite enough power already. Do they
care? Demonstrably no. Do they have any incentive to care? Well let's see... If
we, the people paying their salaries, banded together properly we could effect
change, much like a labor union would be able to. If we (congress and the
public) want to we could simply dismantle them and fire them all! That oughta
give them some incentive!<br> <br> #soapbox_mode on<br> (However the truth be
told, I have yet to see anybody, even here, even where immigration minded
people, many of whom are being squeezed by the INS, have banded together for
anything. A few days back I suggested doing something. As I suspected there was
little if anybody who was even interested let alone any kind of mass rush of
people willing to pour in say some $$$, ideas or time. The apathey here is
pathetic as I suspected. Perhaps it's that you all are scared of the INS since
you're in process. I don't blame you much except to say "Well then you are
getting what you deserve". Unfortunately I'm also getting the same treatment.
Honestly, I can say that I 've never in my life come up against such an
unneccesarily bueacratic bunch of bumbling idoits that seem to get away with
quite literally murder and who nobody seems to care to try to change as the
INS).<br> #soapbox_mode off<br> </body> </html
Mar 23rd 2002, 5:35 pm
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0022_01C1D2C9.466702A0
charset="iso-8859-1"
Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]... stocklover wrote:=20 From CNN
"Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the = four has ties
to terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find = the men". Read the
article at www.cnn.com. None of them is on the = terrorist list. The are just
trying to feed their families. Just like = you..... Well initially it was
reported that one of them was on a terrorist or = lookout list. According =
tohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48581,00.html:
Immigration and Naturalization Service district directors and border = patrol
chiefs from across the country met on a "crisis management" = conference call
Thursday afternoon in which it was reportedly revealed = that one of the four
missing Pakistanis showed up on a "lookout list." = Since then, however, checks
run on the Pakistanis suggest that they are = on no such lists.
Though I wouldn't put it past the INS to be covering up stuff. Let's = face it,
right now they look pretty bad what with giving Atta and = friends visas 6 months
after 9/11...=20 I would look for big changes in the INS soon. It is reported that
= one Senator has given them only til Wendesday to give a full report and = come up
with the missing 4. They are one of the most ridiculous = orginisations in
government.
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0022_01C1D2C9.466702A0 Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META
content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META
content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DV>Andrew DeFaria <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>> wrote in =
message=20 <A=20
=
href=3D"news:[email protected]">news:3C9D48A8.2000705@DeFaria.=
com</A>...</DIV><MIXED>stocklover=20 wrote:</MIXED>=20 <BLOCKQUOTE
cite=3D"mid:[email protected] t"=20 type=3D"cite"><MIXED>From
CNN<BR><BR>"Although authorities have no = information=20 to indicate any of the four
has ties to terrorism, state and federal = agents=20 are trying to find the men".
Read the article at <A=20 class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated =
href=3D"http://www.cnn.com">www.cnn.com</A>.=20 None of them is on the terrorist
list. The are just trying to feed = their=20 families. Just like
you.....</MIXED></BLOCKQUOTE>Well initially it = was=20 reported that one of them was
on a terrorist or lookout list. = According=20
tohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48581,00.html:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P
class=3Dstorytext>Immigration and Naturalization Service district = directors=20 and
border patrol chiefs from across the country met on a "crisis=20 management"
conference call Thursday afternoon in which it was = reportedly=20 revealed that one
of the four missing Pakistanis showed up on a = "lookout=20 list." Since then,
however, checks run on the Pakistanis = suggest that=20 they are on no such
lists.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>Though I wouldn't put it = past the=20 INS to be covering up
stuff. Let's face it, right now they look pretty = bad=20 what with giving Atta and
friends visas 6 months after 9/11...=20 <BLOCKQUOTE
cite=3D"mid:[email protected] t"=20 type=3D"cite"><MIXED><FONT
size=3D2>I would look for big changes in = the INS=20 soon. It is reported that
one Senator has given them only til=20 Wendesday to give a full report and come up
with the missing =
4. They=20 are one of the most ridiculous orginisations in=20
=
government.<BR></MIXED></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0022_01C1D2C9.466702A0--
charset="iso-8859-1"
Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]... stocklover wrote:=20 From CNN
"Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the = four has ties
to terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find = the men". Read the
article at www.cnn.com. None of them is on the = terrorist list. The are just
trying to feed their families. Just like = you..... Well initially it was
reported that one of them was on a terrorist or = lookout list. According =
tohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48581,00.html:
Immigration and Naturalization Service district directors and border = patrol
chiefs from across the country met on a "crisis management" = conference call
Thursday afternoon in which it was reportedly revealed = that one of the four
missing Pakistanis showed up on a "lookout list." = Since then, however, checks
run on the Pakistanis suggest that they are = on no such lists.
Though I wouldn't put it past the INS to be covering up stuff. Let's = face it,
right now they look pretty bad what with giving Atta and = friends visas 6 months
after 9/11...=20 I would look for big changes in the INS soon. It is reported that
= one Senator has given them only til Wendesday to give a full report and = come up
with the missing 4. They are one of the most ridiculous = orginisations in
government.
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0022_01C1D2C9.466702A0 Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META
content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META
content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DV>Andrew DeFaria <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>> wrote in =
message=20 <A=20
=
href=3D"news:[email protected]">news:3C9D48A8.2000705@DeFaria.=
com</A>...</DIV><MIXED>stocklover=20 wrote:</MIXED>=20 <BLOCKQUOTE
cite=3D"mid:[email protected] t"=20 type=3D"cite"><MIXED>From
CNN<BR><BR>"Although authorities have no = information=20 to indicate any of the four
has ties to terrorism, state and federal = agents=20 are trying to find the men".
Read the article at <A=20 class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated =
href=3D"http://www.cnn.com">www.cnn.com</A>.=20 None of them is on the terrorist
list. The are just trying to feed = their=20 families. Just like
you.....</MIXED></BLOCKQUOTE>Well initially it = was=20 reported that one of them was
on a terrorist or lookout list. = According=20
tohttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48581,00.html:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P
class=3Dstorytext>Immigration and Naturalization Service district = directors=20 and
border patrol chiefs from across the country met on a "crisis=20 management"
conference call Thursday afternoon in which it was = reportedly=20 revealed that one
of the four missing Pakistanis showed up on a = "lookout=20 list." Since then,
however, checks run on the Pakistanis = suggest that=20 they are on no such
lists.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>Though I wouldn't put it = past the=20 INS to be covering up
stuff. Let's face it, right now they look pretty = bad=20 what with giving Atta and
friends visas 6 months after 9/11...=20 <BLOCKQUOTE
cite=3D"mid:[email protected] t"=20 type=3D"cite"><MIXED><FONT
size=3D2>I would look for big changes in = the INS=20 soon. It is reported that
one Senator has given them only til=20 Wendesday to give a full report and come up
with the missing =
4. They=20 are one of the most ridiculous orginisations in=20
=
government.<BR></MIXED></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0022_01C1D2C9.466702A0--
Mar 23rd 2002, 5:35 pm
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1D2C8.DF3E9FC0
charset="iso-8859-1"
Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]... James Donovan wrote:
Well, short of chipping everybody and tracking them 24/7, shooting = suspected
criminals and terrorists on site and building a huge wall = around the USA,
allowing no one in or out, the unfriendly element is = always likely to cross our
borders. There is nothing we can do to stop = them that would make our lives
enjoyable or even liveable.
I like the idea of better national security, but not at the expense = of my
freedom and civil rights, sorry. I think there is a lot of middle ground between
what you decribe above = and just letting everybody walk into the US. While what
you describe = above seems to strive for 100% security I believe that
reasonable, say = 80 - 99% security can be achieved without sacrificing the
rights of US = citizens.
It is clear that if the INS cannot even handle processing paperwork in = a
reasonable amount of time what makes anybody think they can be at all =
effective at maintain vast quantites of up to date intelligence data on = known
bad guys? It's not that people relate say K1 visa processing with = the INS'
foulups as of late, rather any rational person can see that the = INS is totally
mismanaged from processing paperwork TO defending our = borders. Many people say
split the functions up and perhaps that's a = good start however I fear the
problems are a lot deeper and spliting = them up will not solve the problems,
only make them worse.
People often overlook that terrorists are not necessarily = foreigners. McVeigh
and Kaczynski were natural born US citizens. We need to watch out for these too.
However, this is not the job of = the INS and this group is about the INS (or
rather visa processing). = People who look out for the McVeigh's and Kaczynski's
are different = agencies like the FBI and CIA. Look for alt.fbi.* and alt.cai.*
for that = stuff !
INS is ineffective or incompetent in one way, and if something = happens, these
people relate their ineffectiveness in other parts = (fiancee visas, or border
patrol, etc what have you). Uh, hold on, maybe = they are incompetent in
everything... I should shut up now.
They are. I take it you've never dealt with them. What do you = expect?=20 I
expect to get good protection of our borders and reasonable = processing times
for those who wish to immigrate legally! Or was this a = trick question?
The syatem is overloaded. The system is staffed by underpaid and = overworked
federal employees who have secure jobs and labor unions to = back them up. Do
they care? Do they have any incentive to care?=20 Hell no! I've read the INS has
had 250% increase in funding the last few years. = What are we getting for our
money? Maybe the staff is underpaid but = that's not because the money isn't
there - that's because the money is = being squandered somewhere else.
Essentially a management problem (or = worse, a scandle). I did not know that
federal workers had a labor = union! Seems to me they have quite enough power
already. Do they care? = Demonstrably no. Do they have any incentive to care?
Well let's see... = If we, the people paying their salaries, banded together
properly we = could effect change, much like a labor union would be able to. If
we = (congress and the public) want to we could simply dismantle them and = fire
them all! That oughta give them some incentive!
#soapbox_mode on (However the truth be told, I have yet to see anybody, even here,
even = where immigration minded people, many of whom are being squeezed by the =
INS, have banded together for anything. A few days back I suggested = doing
something. As I suspected there was little if anybody who was even = interested let
alone any kind of mass rush of people willing to pour in = say some $$$, ideas or
time. The apathey here is pathetic as I = suspected. Perhaps it's that you all are
scared of the INS since you're = in process. I don't blame you much except to say
"Well then you are = getting what you deserve". Unfortunately I'm also getting the
same = treatment. Honestly, I can say that I 've never in my life come up = against
such an unneccesarily bueacratic bunch of bumbling idoits that = seem to get away
with quite literally murder and who nobody seems to = care to try to change as the
INS). #soapbox_mode off
That's what's key -- what are we getting for our money? They've had = such an
incredible increase in funding, but remain one of the most inept = agencies in the
government. That was my main point to begin with. =20
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1D2C8.DF3E9FC0 Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META
content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META
content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DV>Andrew DeFaria <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>> wrote in =
message=20 <A=20
=
href=3D"news:[email protected]">news:3C9D4C82.5020300@DeFaria.=
com</A>...</DIV>James=20 Donovan wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE =
cite=3D"mid:[email protected] ogle.com"=20 type=3D"cite">Well,
short of chipping everybody and tracking them =
24/7,=20 shooting suspected criminals and terrorists on site and building a = huge
wall=20 around the USA, allowing no one in or out, the unfriendly element is =
always=20 likely to cross our borders. There is nothing we can do to stop them =
that=20 would make our lives enjoyable or even liveable.<BR><BR>I like the = idea
of=20 better national security, but not at the expense of my freedom and =
civil=20 rights, sorry.</BLOCKQUOTE>I think there is a lot of middle ground =
between=20 what you decribe above and just letting everybody walk into the US. =
While what=20 you describe above seems to strive for 100% security I believe
that=20 reasonable, say 80 - 99% security can be achieved without sacrificing =
the=20 rights of US citizens.<BR><BR>It is clear that if the INS cannot even =
handle=20 processing paperwork in a reasonable amount of time what makes anybody =
think=20 they can be at all effective at maintain vast quantites of up to date=20
intelligence data on known bad guys? It's not that people relate say = K1 visa=20
processing with the INS' foulups as of late, rather any rational = person can=20
see that the INS is totally mismanaged from processing paperwork =
<B>TO</B>=20 defending our borders. Many people say split the functions up and =
perhaps=20 that's a good start however I fear the problems are a lot deeper and
= spliting=20 them up will not solve the problems, only make them worse.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE = cite=3D"mid:[email protected] ogle.com"=20
type=3D"cite">People often overlook that terrorists are not = necessarily=20
foreigners. McVeigh and Kaczynski were natural born US=20
citizens.</BLOCKQUOTE>We need to watch out for these too. However, = this is
not=20 the job of the INS and this group is about the INS (or rather visa=20
processing). People who look out for the McVeigh's and Kaczynski's are =
different agencies like the FBI and CIA. Look for alt.fbi.* and = alt.cai.* for=20
that stuff <SPAN -moz-smiley=3D"s1"><SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN>!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE =
cite=3D"mid:[email protected] ogle.com"=20 type=3D"cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">INS is ineffective or incompetent in one = way, and=20 if
something happens, these people relate their ineffectiveness in = other=20 parts
(fiancee visas, or border patrol, etc what have you). Uh, = hold on,=20 maybe they
are incompetent in everything... I should shut up=20
now.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><!TEST-><BR>They are. I take it you've never = dealt with=20
them. What do you expect? </BLOCKQUOTE>I expect to get good = protection of our=20
borders and reasonable processing times for those who wish to = immigrate=20
legally! Or was this a trick question?<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE =
cite=3D"mid:[email protected] ogle.com"=20 type=3D"cite">The
syatem is overloaded. The system is staffed by = underpaid and=20 overworked
federal employees who have secure jobs and labor unions = to back=20 them up. Do
they care? Do they have any incentive to care? <BR>Hell=20 no!</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I've read the INS has had 250% increase in funding the last few = years.=20
What are we getting for our money? Maybe the staff is underpaid but = that's
not=20 because the money isn't there - that's because the money is being =
squandered=20 somewhere else. Essentially a management problem (or worse, a =
scandle). I did=20 not know that federal workers had a labor union! Seems to
me they have = quite=20 enough power already. Do they care? Demonstrably no.
Do they have any=20 incentive to care? Well let's see... If we, the people
paying their = salaries,=20 banded together properly we could effect change,
much like a labor = union would=20 be able to. If we (congress and the public)
want to we could simply = dismantle=20 them and fire them all! That oughta
give them some=20 incentive!<BR><BR>#soapbox_mode on<BR>(However the truth be
told, I = have yet=20 to see anybody, even here, even where immigration minded
people, many = of whom=20 are being squeezed by the INS, have banded together
for anything. A = few days=20 back I suggested doing something. As I suspected
there was little if = anybody=20 who was even interested let alone any kind of
mass rush of people = willing to=20 pour in say some $$$, ideas or time. The
apathey here is pathetic as I =
suspected. Perhaps it's that you all are scared of the INS since = you're in=20
process. I don't blame you much except to say "Well then you are = getting what=20
you deserve". Unfortunately I'm also getting the same treatment. = Honestly, I=20
can say that I 've never in my life come up against such an = unneccesarily=20
bueacratic bunch of bumbling idoits that seem to get away with quite = literally=20
murder and who nobody seems to care to try to change as the=20
INS).<BR>#soapbox_mode off</DIV>
<DV> </DIV>
<DVI>That's what's key -- what are we getting for our money? = They've had=20
such an incredible increase in funding, but remain one of the most = inept=20
agencies in the government. That was my main point to begin =
with. =20 <BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1D2C8.DF3E9FC0--
charset="iso-8859-1"
Andrew DeFaria <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]... James Donovan wrote:
Well, short of chipping everybody and tracking them 24/7, shooting = suspected
criminals and terrorists on site and building a huge wall = around the USA,
allowing no one in or out, the unfriendly element is = always likely to cross our
borders. There is nothing we can do to stop = them that would make our lives
enjoyable or even liveable.
I like the idea of better national security, but not at the expense = of my
freedom and civil rights, sorry. I think there is a lot of middle ground between
what you decribe above = and just letting everybody walk into the US. While what
you describe = above seems to strive for 100% security I believe that
reasonable, say = 80 - 99% security can be achieved without sacrificing the
rights of US = citizens.
It is clear that if the INS cannot even handle processing paperwork in = a
reasonable amount of time what makes anybody think they can be at all =
effective at maintain vast quantites of up to date intelligence data on = known
bad guys? It's not that people relate say K1 visa processing with = the INS'
foulups as of late, rather any rational person can see that the = INS is totally
mismanaged from processing paperwork TO defending our = borders. Many people say
split the functions up and perhaps that's a = good start however I fear the
problems are a lot deeper and spliting = them up will not solve the problems,
only make them worse.
People often overlook that terrorists are not necessarily = foreigners. McVeigh
and Kaczynski were natural born US citizens. We need to watch out for these too.
However, this is not the job of = the INS and this group is about the INS (or
rather visa processing). = People who look out for the McVeigh's and Kaczynski's
are different = agencies like the FBI and CIA. Look for alt.fbi.* and alt.cai.*
for that = stuff
!INS is ineffective or incompetent in one way, and if something = happens, these
people relate their ineffectiveness in other parts = (fiancee visas, or border
patrol, etc what have you). Uh, hold on, maybe = they are incompetent in
everything... I should shut up now.
They are. I take it you've never dealt with them. What do you = expect?=20 I
expect to get good protection of our borders and reasonable = processing times
for those who wish to immigrate legally! Or was this a = trick question?
The syatem is overloaded. The system is staffed by underpaid and = overworked
federal employees who have secure jobs and labor unions to = back them up. Do
they care? Do they have any incentive to care?=20 Hell no! I've read the INS has
had 250% increase in funding the last few years. = What are we getting for our
money? Maybe the staff is underpaid but = that's not because the money isn't
there - that's because the money is = being squandered somewhere else.
Essentially a management problem (or = worse, a scandle). I did not know that
federal workers had a labor = union! Seems to me they have quite enough power
already. Do they care? = Demonstrably no. Do they have any incentive to care?
Well let's see... = If we, the people paying their salaries, banded together
properly we = could effect change, much like a labor union would be able to. If
we = (congress and the public) want to we could simply dismantle them and = fire
them all! That oughta give them some incentive!
#soapbox_mode on (However the truth be told, I have yet to see anybody, even here,
even = where immigration minded people, many of whom are being squeezed by the =
INS, have banded together for anything. A few days back I suggested = doing
something. As I suspected there was little if anybody who was even = interested let
alone any kind of mass rush of people willing to pour in = say some $$$, ideas or
time. The apathey here is pathetic as I = suspected. Perhaps it's that you all are
scared of the INS since you're = in process. I don't blame you much except to say
"Well then you are = getting what you deserve". Unfortunately I'm also getting the
same = treatment. Honestly, I can say that I 've never in my life come up = against
such an unneccesarily bueacratic bunch of bumbling idoits that = seem to get away
with quite literally murder and who nobody seems to = care to try to change as the
INS). #soapbox_mode off
That's what's key -- what are we getting for our money? They've had = such an
incredible increase in funding, but remain one of the most inept = agencies in the
government. That was my main point to begin with. =20
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1D2C8.DF3E9FC0 Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META
content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META
content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DV>Andrew DeFaria <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>> wrote in =
message=20 <A=20
=
href=3D"news:[email protected]">news:3C9D4C82.5020300@DeFaria.=
com</A>...</DIV>James=20 Donovan wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE =
cite=3D"mid:[email protected] ogle.com"=20 type=3D"cite">Well,
short of chipping everybody and tracking them =
24/7,=20 shooting suspected criminals and terrorists on site and building a = huge
wall=20 around the USA, allowing no one in or out, the unfriendly element is =
always=20 likely to cross our borders. There is nothing we can do to stop them =
that=20 would make our lives enjoyable or even liveable.<BR><BR>I like the = idea
of=20 better national security, but not at the expense of my freedom and =
civil=20 rights, sorry.</BLOCKQUOTE>I think there is a lot of middle ground =
between=20 what you decribe above and just letting everybody walk into the US. =
While what=20 you describe above seems to strive for 100% security I believe
that=20 reasonable, say 80 - 99% security can be achieved without sacrificing =
the=20 rights of US citizens.<BR><BR>It is clear that if the INS cannot even =
handle=20 processing paperwork in a reasonable amount of time what makes anybody =
think=20 they can be at all effective at maintain vast quantites of up to date=20
intelligence data on known bad guys? It's not that people relate say = K1 visa=20
processing with the INS' foulups as of late, rather any rational = person can=20
see that the INS is totally mismanaged from processing paperwork =
<B>TO</B>=20 defending our borders. Many people say split the functions up and =
perhaps=20 that's a good start however I fear the problems are a lot deeper and
= spliting=20 them up will not solve the problems, only make them worse.<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE = cite=3D"mid:[email protected] ogle.com"=20
type=3D"cite">People often overlook that terrorists are not = necessarily=20
foreigners. McVeigh and Kaczynski were natural born US=20
citizens.</BLOCKQUOTE>We need to watch out for these too. However, = this is
not=20 the job of the INS and this group is about the INS (or rather visa=20
processing). People who look out for the McVeigh's and Kaczynski's are =
different agencies like the FBI and CIA. Look for alt.fbi.* and = alt.cai.* for=20
that stuff <SPAN -moz-smiley=3D"s1"><SPAN>
</SPAN></SPAN>!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE =cite=3D"mid:[email protected] ogle.com"=20 type=3D"cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">INS is ineffective or incompetent in one = way, and=20 if
something happens, these people relate their ineffectiveness in = other=20 parts
(fiancee visas, or border patrol, etc what have you). Uh, = hold on,=20 maybe they
are incompetent in everything... I should shut up=20
now.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><!TEST-><BR>They are. I take it you've never = dealt with=20
them. What do you expect? </BLOCKQUOTE>I expect to get good = protection of our=20
borders and reasonable processing times for those who wish to = immigrate=20
legally! Or was this a trick question?<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE =
cite=3D"mid:[email protected] ogle.com"=20 type=3D"cite">The
syatem is overloaded. The system is staffed by = underpaid and=20 overworked
federal employees who have secure jobs and labor unions = to back=20 them up. Do
they care? Do they have any incentive to care? <BR>Hell=20 no!</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I've read the INS has had 250% increase in funding the last few = years.=20
What are we getting for our money? Maybe the staff is underpaid but = that's
not=20 because the money isn't there - that's because the money is being =
squandered=20 somewhere else. Essentially a management problem (or worse, a =
scandle). I did=20 not know that federal workers had a labor union! Seems to
me they have = quite=20 enough power already. Do they care? Demonstrably no.
Do they have any=20 incentive to care? Well let's see... If we, the people
paying their = salaries,=20 banded together properly we could effect change,
much like a labor = union would=20 be able to. If we (congress and the public)
want to we could simply = dismantle=20 them and fire them all! That oughta
give them some=20 incentive!<BR><BR>#soapbox_mode on<BR>(However the truth be
told, I = have yet=20 to see anybody, even here, even where immigration minded
people, many = of whom=20 are being squeezed by the INS, have banded together
for anything. A = few days=20 back I suggested doing something. As I suspected
there was little if = anybody=20 who was even interested let alone any kind of
mass rush of people = willing to=20 pour in say some $$$, ideas or time. The
apathey here is pathetic as I =
suspected. Perhaps it's that you all are scared of the INS since = you're in=20
process. I don't blame you much except to say "Well then you are = getting what=20
you deserve". Unfortunately I'm also getting the same treatment. = Honestly, I=20
can say that I 've never in my life come up against such an = unneccesarily=20
bueacratic bunch of bumbling idoits that seem to get away with quite = literally=20
murder and who nobody seems to care to try to change as the=20
INS).<BR>#soapbox_mode off</DIV>
<DV> </DIV>
<DVI>That's what's key -- what are we getting for our money? = They've had=20
such an incredible increase in funding, but remain one of the most = inept=20
agencies in the government. That was my main point to begin =
with. =20 <BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
TESTTEST=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1D2C8.DF3E9FC0--
Mar 23rd 2002, 6:05 pm
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
Was it one person who was on the terrorist list, or one person with a name matching
someone on the list?
someone on the list?
Mar 23rd 2002, 6:05 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
stocklover wrote:
> According to CNN, they aren't on a terrorist list.
Yes now it's coming back that these guys weren't on the lookout list (but, of course,
the INS could be lying about that. I mean they've been looking so bad lately I could
see them covering this up fast). However, that, while it adds to the fire and makes
such stories stand out in the news, is really quite irrelevent. The fact remains that
you don't hand land passes to people without proper documentation regardless!
> These guys are just trying to feed their families.
Oh come on, get off it! Everybody's trying to feed their families! "Just trying to
fee their families" is no excuse for breaking the law! Hell I'm just trying to feed
my fiancée (as well as get married, etc) however I still have to follow the law. So
then do they!
> If the Gov. and INS want to catch/deport illegal alien, they should start from
> closing the borders and start sending the millions of illegal aliens from all over
> the world to their home land..not only Pakistanis and Muslims.
How did these illegal aliens get into the country? Answer: In much the same way(s) as
these guys did! Perhaps we should stop letting them in! Just a thought...
> Let the poor people feed their families.
... in Pakistan! Or then if you let them come here to feed their families then let my
fiancée in too!
> Just look at your own family tree.I am sure you all will find an immigrant
> name in it.
Yeah, so what! Irrelevent. My mother came into this country legally. And so did my
grandmother on my father's side. Now if these Pakistani gentlemen would like to enter
the country in a legal manner then I have no problems with that.
> According to CNN, they aren't on a terrorist list.
Yes now it's coming back that these guys weren't on the lookout list (but, of course,
the INS could be lying about that. I mean they've been looking so bad lately I could
see them covering this up fast). However, that, while it adds to the fire and makes
such stories stand out in the news, is really quite irrelevent. The fact remains that
you don't hand land passes to people without proper documentation regardless!
> These guys are just trying to feed their families.
Oh come on, get off it! Everybody's trying to feed their families! "Just trying to
fee their families" is no excuse for breaking the law! Hell I'm just trying to feed
my fiancée (as well as get married, etc) however I still have to follow the law. So
then do they!
> If the Gov. and INS want to catch/deport illegal alien, they should start from
> closing the borders and start sending the millions of illegal aliens from all over
> the world to their home land..not only Pakistanis and Muslims.
How did these illegal aliens get into the country? Answer: In much the same way(s) as
these guys did! Perhaps we should stop letting them in! Just a thought...
> Let the poor people feed their families.
... in Pakistan! Or then if you let them come here to feed their families then let my
fiancée in too!
> Just look at your own family tree.I am sure you all will find an immigrant
> name in it.
Yeah, so what! Irrelevent. My mother came into this country legally. And so did my
grandmother on my father's side. Now if these Pakistani gentlemen would like to enter
the country in a legal manner then I have no problems with that.
Mar 23rd 2002, 6:35 pm
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The INS -- there's your problem
stocklover <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Azen8.2169$n%[email protected]...
> According to CNN, they aren't on a terrorist list. These guys are just trying to
> feed their families. If the Gov. and INS want to catch/deport illegal alien, they
> should start from closing the borders and start
sending
> the millions of illegal aliens from all over the world to their home land..not only
> Pakistanis and Muslims. Let the poor people feed their families. Just look at your
> own family tree.I am sure you all will find an immigrant name in it.
How do you know that these guys are "just trying to feed their families"? You know
something the rest of us don't? Well, I'd bet you were one of those hooping and
dancing in the Middle East when the WTC went down.
As to CNN, I take little I see on CNN for real. They've been mistaken about too much
in the past. And as to the chap who broke the story, he says that one is on a
terrorist list according to the government.
I made the original post to show how utterly stupid the INS is, and how inept
it is. It has become foder for spammers such as this one, who shall never be a
true American.
>
>
> "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > stocklover <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > From CNN
> > >
> > > "Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four
> has
> > > ties to terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the
men".
> > > Read the article at www.cnn.com. None of them is on the terrorist
list.
> > They
> > > are just trying to feed their families. Just like you.....
> >
> > According to journalist Carl Cammeron (who broke the story) one of them
is
> > indeed on the terrorist list. Another had been turned down for entry
into
> > the US a few times before as well.
> >
> > > We have thousand of Mexican, Cuban, Indian, and European entering the country
> > > illegally everyday, but we don't do anything about it. Why
are
> we
> > > making such a big deal about these 4 people?
> >
> > Read the news since 9/11. It would be interesting indeed to see the statistics on
> > the number of Europeans entering illegally everyday, or
> every
> > decade for that matter. (Not counting Eastern Europeans, and I'm sure
> those
> > numbers are small as well compared to the others).
> >
> >
> >
> > Hum...maybe they are Muslim? Or
> > > just because they are from Pakistan?
> >
> > Yes, just because they are from Pakistan. That's according to the government, not
> > me. No Pakistani (and I am sure other Middle Eastern) sailors are to be issued a
> > shore leave permit according to the INS's own rules. That moron INS officer broke
> > their own rules. That was my point
> in
> > the first place.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Oh - by the way, don't forget to look in the mirror before you go to
> > > bad.....you aren't white either.
> > >
> > >
> > > "James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > No news here. The INS/State Dept./Border Patrol has been bumbling things for
> > > > YEARS. I suspect even with all this terrorist stuff
we'll
> > > > still see alot more of this nonsense to come. Have no fear about that!!
> > > >
> > > > Ziglar can cry all he wants. He's still a damn bureaucrat just like the rest
> > > > of the INS folks.
> > > >
> > > > "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > > The INS in the past few weeks has been shown to be complete
morons.
> > > Today,
> > > > > the story on the news is of the INS allowing 4 Pakistanis in, one
of
> > > which
> > > > > is on their terrorist list. They were on a Croatian ship in
> Virginia.
> > > As
> > > > > you know, according to INS rules the only people permitted a land
> pass
> > > are
> > > > > those from visa waiver countries, or those who have visas. These
4
> > > > > Pakistanis didn't have visas, so what does the INS officer
do? --He
> > > gives
> > > > > them a land pass anyway, and the 4 of them disappear into the
night.
> > > Also,
> > > > > since 9/11, the INS has ruled not to give land passes to any
> Pakistani
> > > > > sailors anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > This just goes to show the sort of orginisation you are dealing
> with.
> > > Little
> > > > > wonder that it takes seemingly a life time to get your paperwork
> > > processed!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
news:Azen8.2169$n%[email protected]...
> According to CNN, they aren't on a terrorist list. These guys are just trying to
> feed their families. If the Gov. and INS want to catch/deport illegal alien, they
> should start from closing the borders and start
sending
> the millions of illegal aliens from all over the world to their home land..not only
> Pakistanis and Muslims. Let the poor people feed their families. Just look at your
> own family tree.I am sure you all will find an immigrant name in it.
How do you know that these guys are "just trying to feed their families"? You know
something the rest of us don't? Well, I'd bet you were one of those hooping and
dancing in the Middle East when the WTC went down.
As to CNN, I take little I see on CNN for real. They've been mistaken about too much
in the past. And as to the chap who broke the story, he says that one is on a
terrorist list according to the government.
I made the original post to show how utterly stupid the INS is, and how inept
it is. It has become foder for spammers such as this one, who shall never be a
true American.
>
>
> "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > stocklover <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > From CNN
> > >
> > > "Although authorities have no information to indicate any of the four
> has
> > > ties to terrorism, state and federal agents are trying to find the
men".
> > > Read the article at www.cnn.com. None of them is on the terrorist
list.
> > They
> > > are just trying to feed their families. Just like you.....
> >
> > According to journalist Carl Cammeron (who broke the story) one of them
is
> > indeed on the terrorist list. Another had been turned down for entry
into
> > the US a few times before as well.
> >
> > > We have thousand of Mexican, Cuban, Indian, and European entering the country
> > > illegally everyday, but we don't do anything about it. Why
are
> we
> > > making such a big deal about these 4 people?
> >
> > Read the news since 9/11. It would be interesting indeed to see the statistics on
> > the number of Europeans entering illegally everyday, or
> every
> > decade for that matter. (Not counting Eastern Europeans, and I'm sure
> those
> > numbers are small as well compared to the others).
> >
> >
> >
> > Hum...maybe they are Muslim? Or
> > > just because they are from Pakistan?
> >
> > Yes, just because they are from Pakistan. That's according to the government, not
> > me. No Pakistani (and I am sure other Middle Eastern) sailors are to be issued a
> > shore leave permit according to the INS's own rules. That moron INS officer broke
> > their own rules. That was my point
> in
> > the first place.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Oh - by the way, don't forget to look in the mirror before you go to
> > > bad.....you aren't white either.
> > >
> > >
> > > "James Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > No news here. The INS/State Dept./Border Patrol has been bumbling things for
> > > > YEARS. I suspect even with all this terrorist stuff
we'll
> > > > still see alot more of this nonsense to come. Have no fear about that!!
> > > >
> > > > Ziglar can cry all he wants. He's still a damn bureaucrat just like the rest
> > > > of the INS folks.
> > > >
> > > > "brit_am" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > > The INS in the past few weeks has been shown to be complete
morons.
> > > Today,
> > > > > the story on the news is of the INS allowing 4 Pakistanis in, one
of
> > > which
> > > > > is on their terrorist list. They were on a Croatian ship in
> Virginia.
> > > As
> > > > > you know, according to INS rules the only people permitted a land
> pass
> > > are
> > > > > those from visa waiver countries, or those who have visas. These
4
> > > > > Pakistanis didn't have visas, so what does the INS officer
do? --He
> > > gives
> > > > > them a land pass anyway, and the 4 of them disappear into the
night.
> > > Also,
> > > > > since 9/11, the INS has ruled not to give land passes to any
> Pakistani
> > > > > sailors anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > This just goes to show the sort of orginisation you are dealing
> with.
> > > Little
> > > > > wonder that it takes seemingly a life time to get your paperwork
> > > processed!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
