Holiday in California in May, ESTA question
Feb 25th 2012, 10:59 pm
#16
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: Holiday in California in May, ESTA question
I'd lean strongly toward it not being a CIMT. There are plenty of pretty serious offenses that often aren't CIMT. For example, getting drunk and accidentally killing someone with your car, illegally carrying a firearm, and paying a prostitute for their services are usually not a CIMT. Even possession of stolen property in Canada isn't, but possession of property obtained by crime is so it can come down to the details.
Last edited by crg; Feb 25th 2012 at 11:08 pm.
Feb 25th 2012, 11:49 pm
#17
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: Holiday in California in May, ESTA question
From the Home Office website:
Does receiving a penalty notice count as a conviction?
No. Receipt of a penalty notice offers the recipient the opportunity to discharge their liability to conviction for the offence to which the notice relates or to request a court hearing. Payment of a penalty involves neither a finding nor an acceptance of guilt and removes the possibility of being proceeded against or gaining a record of criminal conviction for the offence for which the notice was issued.
Does receiving a penalty notice count as a conviction?
No. Receipt of a penalty notice offers the recipient the opportunity to discharge their liability to conviction for the offence to which the notice relates or to request a court hearing. Payment of a penalty involves neither a finding nor an acceptance of guilt and removes the possibility of being proceeded against or gaining a record of criminal conviction for the offence for which the notice was issued.
The answer to the ESTA question of whether you have ever been arrested or convicted of it would seem to be no.
Feb 26th 2012, 4:11 am
#18
Pedantic Moron
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hiding from the weather
Posts: 566
Re: Holiday in California in May, ESTA question
Never said it was, just pointing out the differences in the punishment in America (jail time) versus getting a ticket in the UK. And as was mentioned before, it is the US consideration of the potentIal penalty that matters for immigration.
I agree with The others though who say it is likely not considered a CIMT.
I agree with The others though who say it is likely not considered a CIMT.
Feb 26th 2012, 8:20 am
#19
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4,891
Re: Holiday in California in May, ESTA question
Never said it was, just pointing out the differences in the punishment in America (jail time) versus getting a ticket in the UK. And as was mentioned before, it is the US consideration of the potentIal penalty that matters for immigration.
I agree with The others though who say it is likely not considered a CIMT.
I agree with The others though who say it is likely not considered a CIMT.
Feb 26th 2012, 2:52 pm
#20
BE Commentator
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,420
Re: Holiday in California in May, ESTA question
The list of listed "chemicals" is of interest. Some of that stuff is available OTC at Costco.
In any case, I told OP how to find the case law on sale of alcohol as a crime involving moral turpitude.
Feb 27th 2012, 12:53 am
#21
Pedantic Moron
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hiding from the weather
Posts: 566
Re: Holiday in California in May, ESTA question
Yeah. And the only consideration that matters from the perspective of ESTA is whether or not the offence was a CIMT, not whether you can receive jail time in the US (this was explained very well by crg's post). All of which makes your initial speculation about the differences in sentencing somewhat irrelevant.
To the OP, good luck on your application, and enjoy your holiday
Jun 27th 2012, 3:52 pm
#22
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4
Re: Holiday in California in May, ESTA question
OP here, though I'd chime in and give an update now that my holiday has been and gone. When I was doing my searching for similar issues on many forums I never found any one coming back and giving an update afterwards.
Everything was fine and I had a wonderful time in California. Monterey was a particular highlight of the trip and I fully intend to return there one day!
Everything was fine and I had a wonderful time in California. Monterey was a particular highlight of the trip and I fully intend to return there one day!
Jun 27th 2012, 9:15 pm
#23
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4,891
Re: Holiday in California in May, ESTA question
OP here, though I'd chime in and give an update now that my holiday has been and gone. When I was doing my searching for similar issues on many forums I never found any one coming back and giving an update afterwards.
Everything was fine and I had a wonderful time in California. Monterey was a particular highlight of the trip and I fully intend to return there one day!
Everything was fine and I had a wonderful time in California. Monterey was a particular highlight of the trip and I fully intend to return there one day!
