Matthew Udall

Another poster in this thread shared some good general information that apparently came from the Consulate concerning what they perceive as a "pattern" of fraudulent marriages (thanks for posting that). Speaking in general stereotypical terms here and not about any given case, it seems that sometimes we live in a society with a double standard whereby nobody blinks an eye when an older male marries a younger female however some get suspicious when an older female marries a younger male. Perhaps there is some basis in fact for this stereotypical double standard…. Do you think one type of relationship happens more often than the other type? If one type of relationship occurs quite often and the other type much less frequently, then I suppose if suspicions were to be cast, they would be cast at the uncommon relationship (and I'm not saying it is "generally" appropriate to be suspicious just because of gender and age…. Each case should be looked at individually).

The pattern of fraudulent marriages the other poster reported concerns a fraudulent intent "on the part of the younger Egyptian male" (and again, I'm not saying I buy into this argument), not on the part of the older US female (who may be getting duped). So when you mention above the fact that some older US females truly love their husbands and want them to live in the U.S…. sure, that is what the Consulate is saying too however the Consul is focusing on the fraudulent intent of the younger male.

When it comes to marriage fraud, it does not necessarily take two to tango.

Good luck.

sdmansour

soliman56,

you need to forget feelings and work with facts. to get facts, you need to read the information i provided to you, search the internet for related information and react reasonably to the information/reasons the embassy gave you in the email/letter.

the way you empower yourself and your wife in this lengthy process is by being well-informed. and being well-informed takes time and effort. at this point, i think the individuals that have responded to you have pointed you in the right direction...now you have to take the ball and run with it.

debbie

p.s. if you register with this group, you can private message me, give me some information about you, including your cell/telephone number and i will give you my husband's info too. then the 2 of you can connect and maybe he can be of assistance to you as well.

Khadija

Same goes for me, too, Soliman. I'm sure my husband would be willing to speak with you, as well. Also, if your wife registers with this forum, she can connect with us wives.

Debbie is right on. You have to think with your head and not your heart now. Information and facts are your best tools at this point toward a successful conclusion to your case.

Patty

sdmansour

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mtravelkay
sdmansour wrote:



OK, she was Indian, but also American. So, why is it an "American" man
and not an "American" woman? or simply "the man" or "the woman"?
It sounds predjudicial when people refer to them as "American man" and
"Indian woman" since they are both American.


seems to me the reason why this was used was for efficiency and quick identification. if all the COs are american by citizenship, how can particular individuals be easily identified? one, consistent way is by ethnic origin.

Mtravelkay

sdmansour wrote:

    > Originally posted by meauxna
    >
    >>There are local staffers
    >
    > at the Consulates. However, the interviewers (final decision folk) are
    > USCs. Postings are for 2 years, tho theoretically I suppose they can re-
    > bid for the same post for more than one "tour".
    >
    > in the case
    > of the embassy in egypt, all employees are USCs whether they are native
    > egyptians or not. i was personally told this while i was there waiting
    > in a long line outside the embassy *pestering * the guy controlling
    > the entrance (we were there at 7:30am for an 8:00am appt. and were not
    > allowed to go inside until nearly 10:00am). ugh!
    >
    > my husband and i got
    > into a very nice conversation with him and several other people at the
    > front of the line and this was one of the topics that came up. not sure
    > if this is state dept. policy everywhere or just in egypt (doesnt make
    > too much sense if it is true for only one installation.)
    >

I know someone at the Embassy in Cairo and he is not a US citizen.
Are you saying that all of the clerks, cleaning people, etc are all US
citizens???

sdmansour

Working at the embassy is working for the federal government.

Under most conditions (I don't want to say absolutely because there probably have been/are exceptions at some point in time) positions in the federal government that require citizenship for a variety of reasons, for example, to show loyalty to the government or because of the sensitive nature of processes or information.

The gentleman we were talking with had dual citizenship with the American citizenship as a benefit of being employed there.

Here's the website for federal employment which reiterates/substantiates my claim:

http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/working.asp

The opening statement says,

"The U.S. Government is seeking American citizens to join the ranks of Federal public servants."

meauxna

Sorry, sd, it's not personal, but these statements just didn't sit with me. Turned up some interesting stuff in my search tho...

"Several overseas veterans said that when they served as visa officials, they often were guided by the native-born staff -- called Foreign Service nationals -- who work at U.S. embassies and consulates."
http://www.newhouse.com/archive/mccutcheon012704.html
(interesting recent article about fraud, btw)

The Post Reports are charming, and describe the foreign country to potential DoS staffers, including some interesting, detailed information (including what is considered 'formal wear' in each country).
http://foia.state.gov/MMS/postrpt/pr_view_start.asp

Many of the Post Reports mention how many/what type of people work there. Did you know they can be 3rd country nationals as well? Egypt's says:
" The Embassy in Egypt has since grown to be the largest American Mission in the world. There are almost 500 direct hires in Cairo."
Greece's is a bit more specific:
"The U.S. Mission has over 500 American personnel, including dependents, in the Athens area and about 10 in other locations. The Mission employs 400 Foreign Service nationals countrywide."
(see article above for definition of FSN)

And one of Nicosia's older reports says "Currently, about 70 Americans and approximately 98 Cypriots and third-country nationals are on duty at the Mission."

I can also confirm from personal experience that the security staff *outside* and at Reception for the Embassy in Athens are Greeks. I'd be willing to bet my last drachma that they are not/not required to be USCs.

However, as I've said before, only Foreign Service Officers (who *are* USCs and DoS employees) approve visa applications.

lairdside

I've just been offered a job with the federal govt, I'm waiting on medical clearance only (had all of my interviews, drug screening etc).

I'm a PR.

sdmansour

cool...i learned something new today thank you.

[email protected]

sdmansour <member21279@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > While searching for the info I read previously about cases sent to
    > Athens, I found this on http://travel.state.gov/egypt.html
    >
    >
    > "The Embassy cautions American citizens regarding marriage to
    > Egyptian citizens whom they meet only briefly or only via the Internet.
    > The Embassy has uncovered numerous cases of fraudulent intent in recent
    > years on the part of Egyptian partners in such relationships. They have
    > been shown to have contracted the marriage, either primarily or solely,
    > for the purposes of obtaining access to an immigrant visa to the U.S.
    > This is especially the case in which the parties have met only on-line.
    > There is a common pattern in which Egyptian men will marry American
    > women, remain in the marriage only long enough to obtain U.S. residency
    > status or citizenship, and then divorce. We urge Americans
    > contemplating marriage to an Egyptian citizen to become familiar with
    > Egyptian family law (known here as personal status laws). Especially
    > for women, their rights as both spouse and parent would be very
    > different in Egypt from those in the U.S., as would the rights of any
    > children resulting from the marriage"
    >
    > Soliman56, the State Dept. is
    > the agency that oversees the embassies worldwide (as opposed to BCIS
    > for applications initiated in the US). This is one of several reasons
    > why the processing takes so much time.
    >
    > Yes Heba, I remember reading
    > that (Athens info) on the Cairo website too.
    >
    > I have searched the
    > website and similar sites for a considerable period of time tonight to
    > try and find an answer for you soliman56. Since I was unsuccessful in
    > finding you that link, I reverted back to the papers I printed when
    > doing my original homework. Here's what I found:
    >
    > "Submitting a
    > petition at the U.S. Consulate in Cairo, Egypt allows the adjudicating
    > consular officer the authority to approve the petition. In the event
    > that the consular officer determines the case is not clearly
    > approvable, the Embassy will forward such petitions to the INS office
    > in Athens, Greece for further administrative processing. Processing at
    > INS Athens may take over 6 months. A decision to forward a petition to
    > INS Athens is final."
    >
    > Here is a link to possible reasons why your case
    > may not be approvable:
    >
    >
    > http://travel.state.gov/spouse_fiance(e).html#16b
    >
    > and
    > click on:
    >
    > What If My Husband/Wife Is Ineligible for a Visa?
    >
    > Here's
    > more detailed info on ineligibility:
    >
    >
    > http://travel.state.gov/visa;ineligible.html
    >
    > and if you
    > want to know the intimate details of visa processing, here's a link to
    > the Foreign Affairs Manual:
    >
    >
    > http://foia.state.gov/Regs/fams.asp?level=2&id=10&fam=0
    >
    > I
    > spent some time reading this manual as well tonight and I learned a
    > great deal including where some of the language that we (the Cairo
    > Club) get in emails from the embassy, i.e. "process the case to
    > conclusion" and "administrative processing" and "name check", etc. If
    > you have a couple of free hours, it's worth the read
    >
    > Best of luck
    > to you,
    >
    > Debbie

Hello debbie

really these are good info that u provide ,but i like to know how the
usa immigration law and the official buildings like INS use the
immigration laws to adjudicate if this marriage is real and in good
faith or fraud ,i say this as i read some of these factors that the
ins use to see if this marriage is fraud..but really these factors are
unfair and unjustice,if they use these factors it means that they want
mnay people to die and not to join their spouse and then they will be
seperated ,really if any one that apply for spouse visa read these
factors ,she or he will know that they will refuse the petition.

so if you or any person knows how the ins decide if the marriage is
real in good faith or in fraud please advise ?????????????????????

thank you for all who help .

sdmansour

soliman56,

there's one thing you must keep in mind about the cairo embassy (maybe other embassies as well - but i know about the cairo embassy the most) and that is - the default way of thinking is that everyone is lying about everything.

in other words, you have to prove your innocence.

i believe they do this because of the high rate of fraud that occurs. so when you go to the embassy, you have to be prepared to be completely truthful (even if it is not pretty) and you have to bring every ounce of proof that you have...even if they don't want to see it you just have to be completely prepared.

the other part that they don't tell you about but is a factor called their "gut instinct". they read your body language, expressions, tone of voice, the way you talk to your spouse, how you look at your spouse, all of these things as indicators of a real marriage.

the CO even asked if our wedding rings were engraved! small detail but it adds to the overall picture.

there is no list of things that qualify your marriage as valid other than what the forms tell you but when you are truly married, you will naturally give that impression and you will have the kinds and quanities of information they are expecting to see.

good luck!

Noorah101

And, another good reason why it's a good idea for the USC to attend the interview (if they are allowed to, of course). Then the Con Off can see in person how they interact, how well they communicate, how prepared they both are....I think it would alleviate some of the doubts the Con Off might have, if he/she were only to see the beneficiary's side.

Best wishes to you all,
Rene

sdmansour

when doing dcf in egypt, it is required that the US spouse be present, otherwise the case is denied and would have to be re-filed.

[email protected]

sdmansour <member21279@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Originally posted by Noorah101
    > > And, another good
    > reason why it's a good idea for the USC to attend the interview (if
    > they are allowed to, of course). Then the Con Off can see in person
    > how they interact, how well they communicate, how prepared they both
    > are....I think it would alleviate some of the doubts the Con Off might
    > have, if he/she were only to see the beneficiary's side.
    > >
    > > Best
    > wishes to you all,
    > > Rene
    >
    >
    > when doing dcf in egypt, it is
    > required that the US spouse be present, otherwise the case is denied
    > and would have to be re-filed.

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOW THIS IS WHAT HAPPEN IN MY CASE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

my wife received letter from the immigration that our case denied as
they see that our marriage not solid and some of our answers in the
interview were not the same and they give us 90 days for sending them
more proofs ,,,,,,

regarding the proofs,,, me and my wife have manyyyyy like ,telephon
bills and emails and photos ,hotel receipts of our honey moon and
western union receipts and moreeeeeee ,,by the way our family member
want to send hand writing letters for the immigration to prove that
they know about the marriage and also the accept it . but really now
we have problem we did not make wedding party but we have something
like wedding dinner with the family and i have the pictures of that
day and the dates printed on them .
do u see that these are
helpful?????????????

please adviseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

regards

Noorah101

Yes, I see all of the above as helpful. Send whatever the embassy is asking for, and whatever occurs to you that would present your case positively to them.

Good Luck!
Rene