atomsound

Hi all

I'mpossibly moving to the US on an H1-B visa, my partner will be on an H4. I have a question about the specific details of not being permitted to work on an H4 visa

On an H4, would it be possible to make jewellery at home, send it back to the uk for sale, keep all the income in a uk bank account, pay uk taxes etc? Essentially, all trade would take place outside the US, no US citizen would be deprived of a job etc.

Is it the case that any form of work is prohibited, even if all income and trade takes place outside the US? Is the letter of the law concerned with the activity of work, or the financial part of a business, or is it more about the fact that taking a job will prevent a US citizen from being able to do same job.

thanks!

Ozzidoc

The H4 visa doesn't permit work in the USA. The H4 visa doesn't compel you to give up income-producing activities outside the USA. The work must not be done in the USA.

Best wishes with life on the visa-from-hell.

atomsound

so - the actual activity of work (in this case, making jewellery) is prohibited, even if all income from this activity is outside the USA?

if that's true, how is it enforced?

Ozzidoc

No idea!

cyrus1341

Yes it is true and on H4 you are not allowed to do any work at all in US no matter where the end product ends up and sold. Sounds crazy but its true and no idea how it is enforced BUT its a sort of risk which you dont want to be taking on H4 as it could seriously damage your future plans!!! I am on H1B myself and my wife is on H4 and personally we wouldnt take the risk!

atomsound

ok, understood, I certainly don't want to take any risks either!! Just wanting to understand the exact circumstances. Thanks

Jerseygirl

Even if it was allowed (and I don't believe it is) you would still have to declare all income on your US tax return. You may also be subject to import/export duty on the goods you are shippinng from the US to the UK.

Working in the US illegally...I wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of the consequences.

atomsound

no indeed! No intention of doing anything even remotely illlegal, just curious about what exactly is the logic behind this ruling, thanks

Jerseygirl

Good. Not only would you have US immigration to answer to...you'd have the IRS on your back.

S Folinsky

Good question -- I'm afraid it may be in one of those gray areas of the law. A long time ago, I represented a couple in an adjustment of status case where one was an H-1 and the other here on H-4. The H-4 spouse was a writer whose work was published and sold in the home country. Income was declared on the US tax return. The matter was discussed in the adjustment interview and the interviewing officer said "wait a minute" and went to consult with supervisor. DAO came back and said that it was not unauthorized employment for purposes of 245(c) and adjustment was granted.

The regulations on employer sanctions can be found at 8 CFR part 274a.

No advice is given here -- I'm not even sure of what the answer is. Who knows what the minions of the Dark Forces might do in a particular case?

anuny

Could it be because writer is considered intellectual production of ideas While jewellery making would involve procurement of raw mterial and producting an actual physical end product ?

Just speculating

S Folinsky

That would be pure speculation. Of interest might be the case of Matter of Lett from 1980 and Matter of Tong from 1978. It should be noted that these two case are under a version of the law which has since been amended beyond recognition. However, it pays to note that the "unauthorized employment" bar to adjustment of status came into being on January 1, 1977. The employer sanction provisions of the Act did not come into being until the November 6, 1986 enactment of the "IRCA" legislation.

I believe that the point that can be extracted from these two cases is that the dividing line is not all that clear. In rereading these cases, I have remembered another case I was involved in -- a big overseas company sent one of its senior managers to the US to obtain an MBA. While engaged in his studies, he would spend two hours a week monitoring the books and operations of a US subsidiary and make reports to home office. We had not problem with this at all.

[I had engaged in practice for over thirty years -- it is amazing how things have changed over time.]

Apfelkuchen

I'm curious about that too! Mr Folinsky, do you know? All grey areas about what does and doesn't constitute work for the purposes of an H-4 aside, what is the rationale behind prohibiting people from doing self-employed work where all the financial transactions take place outside the US?

S Folinsky

The tax laws are different than the immigration laws. The tax definition of "resident" is broader than that found in the immigration laws.

As to "why?" -- my answer is either a shrug or "that is just the way it is."

And some questions just don't have clear answers.

Apfelkuchen

I think I'm missing the point here . Is the law forbidding H-4 visa holders to work not an immigration law?

Haha, silly me for expecting there to be some rationale behind these things . I can see the logic in not wanting H-4 visa holders to take jobs away from US workers, but I don't understand who benefits from them not even being allowed to work for themselves. That was what provoked the question.