H2B Rejected
 

Hi all, I'm new to the forum having stumbled across it while reading up on some stuff relating to visa issues I am having at the moment. I've read through some threads and there are some very knowledgable people here so I figured I'd just explain my situation directly in the hope somebody wiser on such matters than myself could help, or offer advice. Thanks in advance, but also sorry in advance if my post gets long winded, it's a habit I have, but hopefully it gives a full picture.

To give some background... I am 26, and in the last 2 years I've done 2 8 month stints in the U.S. coaching soccer (I guess the majority of you will let me say football, but just to avoid confusion!). I graduated in the UK in 2007 with a degree in Business Studies, but to be honest had a bit of a rough time in the couple of years that followed. Partly through my own poor choices, but that's neither here nor there now, essentially I got stuck in a rut. Didn't have a clue what I wanted to do next, ended up stumbling between unemployment and naf temp jobs on phones, repetitive data entry tasks, etc. No disrespect intended to anyone, I know its a job, but I was miserable, looking back probably bordering on depression as friends of mine were all getting on with life, well paid jobs that they were into, etc while I just didnt have a clue, and suffered a distinct lack of motivation.

Anyway, I decided to take a break from it all, and had always seen the soccer coaching opportunities advertised when i was at uni. So i went for it, did the qualifications I needed and managed to get a position. The plan was for it to be a one time thing, get it out my system and then return to the UK to get on with a getting a 'real job'. That first year I was in CT and absolutely loved it, loved the U.S. had a great lifestyle, doing a job that didnt for one second feel like work. I was happy again, doing something interesting with my life, experiencing the U.S. and of course enjoying the touristy stuff like NYC when I got the chance. I was of course weary of it just being the novelty of being there and the fact it may wear off, but the opportunity arose to return in 2011 with a different employer. Somebody I'd worked with had moved to this other company and was able to hook me up with a position there. This company offers more opportunity for progression than just a few months away. They look to bring people over short term, but provide a pathway for those that want to progress further and that do well, etc in the form of eventually longer visas, and full time positions. So i went back in 2011 with them, again on an H2B, this time based in MA. They of course don't just hand out longer visas to any old person so hence they make use of H2Bs to get staff there for their busiest periods, and I think generally they use the H2B route for a few years until and those people they want to keep beyond that they move on to other visa options.

I did well with this company, I worked a lot longer hours and this wasn't all quite so plain sailing, and there were unhappy times that enabled me to see through the novelty of being in the U.S. but still I love it, and I realise it is where I want to be and what I want to be doing. I returned home before xmas, and was meant to be returning last week again on an H2B, but disaster struck. My H2B got rejected. The previous times I've been it was almost just a formality, and was asked no more questions than "what you going for? when you coming back?". Yet this time I was declined on the basis of not having enough 'ties' in England to show that I will definitely come back. I know this is a requirement for non-immigrant visas, but my circumstances are no different from previously, and most of the people I worked with in the U.S. are the same as me. In fact I was at the embassy with 2 of them, both of which had almost identical circumstances to me -no job here, no house, etc and had both been over there on H2Bs multiple times. They both breezed through, while I got rejected. Other people I worked with have been on H2Bs for 4-5 years (im not sure what the limit is, I hear differing suggestions), some of the people that have been with the company longer came home literally just for xmas, went straight to the embassy and were back out again on an H2B a week or 2 after xmas. I've paid my taxes there and always left on the dates I'm supposed to. So it seems like I just got unlucky, the Consular Officer for whatever reason took issue with my application and what he decides goes I guess.

The company are now looking to get me a different type of visa. They are looking at P1, which is for high level athletes and their coaches, etc, but they have a mens team that plays at a well recognised level and they are able to get P1s on the basis of being involved with that. If it worked out I would be in a better position, as I gather it is likely to be a 3 year visa. From what they have told me, the lawyer is confident that the H2B rejection won't be a factor. Yet I also believe this to be a non-immigrant visa, and therefore the whole 'ties to home' thing is still a potential issue. A friend of mine knows somebody that got rejected on that basis. Of course I am going to the U.S. with some intent to stay eventually, but of course I've not expressed that to immigration or embassy officials, and it's not to say I'd stay illegally. I wouldn't, but I don't know how I can prove it in the eyes of the U.S. embassy. I live with my parents when I'm here (no residence of my own), I pick up what work I can for the months I've been here as opposed to having a job to return to. All my family is here but, I'm talking parents, brother, aunties, uncles, cousins, etc as opposed to wife, kids which I guess is what they mean by 'familial ties'.

So basically I'm worried that this P1 isnt going to be an option for me. Even if the company get it approved and I get the go ahead to visit the embassy again, surely the fact I've already been rejected for an H2B on the basis of a lack of ties in the UK is going to mean I stand little chance if that is also a requirement of the P1.

My time in the U.S. was so important for me. It's really turned me around, given me a direction in life and some goals and ambition. If this doesn't work out I'm essentially back to where I was 2 years ago. The youth soccer industry is totally different there to the UK, so it's not really something I can just pick up here. I'm not sure what advice people can offer, or if anyone can suggest any routes I may have for getting a visa (H1B eligibility perhaps?), but frankly I feel in complete limbo, and this is likely to make a huge impact on my life and potentially happiness. Or perhaps some of you having read all this can point out that I'm exactly the type of person that these types of visa are meant to keep out, I'm no immigration lawyer I don't know. Even then I know probably 50 people in the same position that have had no issues what so ever, and just me and one other that have had this happen, despite as I say no real difference in circumstances.

Sorry again for the long post, thanks for anyone that makes it all the way through. I'd really appreciate some words of wisdom on whether this situation leaves me out of options and I just have to lump it, or if I have any hope of things working out.

Thanks

Re: H2B Rejected
 

sorry, having re-read the initial post, i guess i probably included a lot of 'waffle' that isnt neccessarily relevant and takes a lot of reading. I just wrote is it came to me, partly thinking aloud as I try to process the situation myself.

In summary -

- Spent 2 x 8 month stints in the U.S. on h2b visas working in youth soccer. (2 different companies)

- The company I worked for last year wanted me to go back on an h2b again, as I seem to be making progress there and eventually there would be possible opportunity for longer visas.

- 3rd h2b got rejected at the embassy stage, on the basis of my circumstances and a lack of ties in the UK. Despite many people I work with being in similar circumstances and not having any problems.

- Employer now applying for a P1. I gather this is also non-immigrant so the 'lack of ties' may still cause me problems. Is this the case? Is there anything I can do about this?

- Are there other options? H1B maybe?

thanks again

Re: H2B Rejected
 

Get a job, go study at uni some more, get a place....what ever else that would show ties to the UK.

H1B, no idea, but does the position require a university degree? It's a possibility if that were the case, I don't know...but they wouldn't be able to apply till April for a Oct start, so wouldn't help you to much.

Ask the company lawyer what they mean by getting a longer visa and how they plan to approach the P1 as it's up to them really, it's also their money.

Re: H2B Rejected
 

Each visa application is based on its own merits. I don't have anything to add except that you must now declare the denied visa on every subsequent visa application (including ESTA).

Ian

Re: H2B Rejected
 

thanks for the replies. All stuff I was already thinking myself I guess. I realise each application is judged on it's own merits so comparing mine to somebody else is pointless, but still you can see why its frustrating from my point of view. Make no difference of course, but frustrating none the less.

I guess I just have to wait it out and see what happens with this P1. Employers seem confident about it, but if its true that I still have to demonstrate ties then I'm not sure I'll stand much chance. If I can't in their eyes demonstrate that I'll come home in 9 months, not sure what I can do differently to show I'll come home after 3 years or whatever.

Thanks again, and further input of course welcome.

Re: H2B Rejected
 

I don't have much experience with P1 visas but the P visas may be slightly easier to get around the problem since they have a different interpretation of dual intent than the H2B visa.

The doctrine of dual intent also appears to be recognized for P nonimmigrants, at least under the INS regulations. According to 8 CFR 214.2(p)(15), the approval of a permanent labor certification or the filing of a preference petition for an alien shall not be a basis for denying a P petition, a request to extend such a petition, or the alien's admission, change of status, or extension of stay. The alien may legitimately come to the United States for a temporary period as a P nonimmigrant and depart voluntarily at the end of his or her authorized stay and, at the same time, lawfully seek to become a permanent resident of the United States. This provision does not include essential support personnel. The regulatory recognition of dual intent for P nonimmigrants is somewhat surprising in light of the fact that the definition of the P category at INA §101(a)(15)(P) specifically requires the alien to have a foreign residence which he or she has no intention of abandoning.

http://www.americanlaw.com/dintent.html

If this is the case, the lawyers may possibly only have to prove that you have a residence (your parents home) to return to instead of a job.

Re: H2B Rejected
 

thankyou, again I appreciate the reply.

Does living at my parents house suffice as a residence, even though I have no ownership? It was asked this at my H2B interview, and I was of course honest and said it belonged to my parents, not me. Obviously in that circumstance it wasn't enough. Not debating your intel, just opening the point for debate and any further insight.

Thanks

Re: H2B Rejected
 

If you are classified as dual intent such as L1 and H1-B visas, you don't need to maintain a foreign residence. The P1 visa is a tricky visa since it is in effect classified as dual intent but has the clause that a foreign residence must be maintained. So that is a question that only a lawyer can answer.

Also there is a big difference in the amount of time that you can work on a P1 visa compared to a H2B visa so ICE may look at it differently since it would seem difficult to ask all P1 visa holders to maintain an owned or rented foreign residence for years.

Re: H2B Rejected
 

Ownership has never been a requirement for residency. If you lived in a tent under a bridge, that would be your residence... whether you owned it or it belonged to some homeless friend.

If ownership was an issue, many people wouldn't get visas... which clearly isn't the case.

Ian

Re: H2B Rejected
 

So you are saying that residence is the only of the 'ties to home' that are relevant for a p1?

I did contact the company's lawyer about this, and he suggested "generally home ties arent an issue for a p1, however I've seen the London embassy ask more and more about them in the context of a P1".

I realise it is to an extent luck of the draw in terms of which interviewer you get, but am I right in assuming that having been turned away for lack of ties for an h2b, they are very likely to put scrutiny on it for my p1 also? I am just thinking logically, and im no immigration lawyer, but surely if they are able to question and reject visas on the basis of home ties, then having been rejected I would likely be a 'prime target' for that scrutiny?

In which case is there anything in particular I can do to back up my case? For the H2B i was told I don't have enough 'social, economic or familial ties' in England. In reality, my whole family is here, I have residence, albeit at my parents house, and this wasnt enough on that occasion. Any suggestions for what would serve as suitable 'evidence'? or any other types of ties I can document and how I'd go about doing so?

I've also put this question the lawyer, but figured I'd ask here as well for any other input.

Thanks again

Re: H2B Rejected
 

I don't think so, because the visa terms are different. For the H2B, it was very temporary, so it might be expected to maintain your ties back home for such a short period of time. But it sounds like the P1 is for a longer term...more like several years, right? So I think they wouldn't expect someone to keep a residence and job back home when they'll be gone that long.

Just my layman's opinion.

Rene

Re: H2B Rejected
 

Although unlike the L1 or H1-B visa which specifically states dual intent, the P1 visa infers dual intent which means that you could possibly get a green card which is not possible for the H2B visa. Since you have the possibility of getting a green card, you may not have to return to the UK.

Just from that alone, it seems that scrutiny for ties to your home country would be less for a P1 visa as compared to a H2B visa.

However a layer that is familiar with the P1 visa would likely be able to have a better understanding about that visa than anyone in this forum.

All we can do is wish you luck and pass on our limited knowledge.

Re: H2B Rejected
 

thanks, i appreciate the kind words. I realise nobody here will be able to answer with as much certainty as a lawyer, I've put the questions to him also, but I guess if nothing else posting on here can maybe give at least some insight into my chances and feel like by learning about it, im doing more than just waiting for the outcome.

I know of somebody that got turned away for a p1 on the 'ties to home' thing so im a little worried because of that. Though I also know somebody that didn't even get asked about that sort thing and got it easy enough. Ijust figured having had the h2b turned away for that reason, i might come under more scrutiny.

I guess a lot of it is speculation really. In part it comes down to luck of the draw and who interviews me at the embassy. The lawyer also mentioned that he's seen more and more people asked about ties to home for a p1 in London, and that it might be worth going to Belfast instead. The guy i heard of getting rejected, did so in Belfast.

Anyone got any thoughts on that? I guess its almost impossible to know how things would work out at either location. On any given day I could get an interviewer that doesnt want to admit me, or somebody that does.

Re: H2B Rejected
 

I don't know too much about this so could be completely off base here but if you are from around London and travel all the way to Belfast for your interview, when it's not like there's a huge wait or anything, I think would have the potential to look suspicious.
I have a Norwegian passport and after a recent visa denial was told by some people to go to Oslo and try again as it was likely to be easier... i didn't for the simple reason that I think it looks pretty dodgy and anyone working at the embassy is looking out for things like that. I also won't in future, as London as where i've started applying (because it's where i've always lived) and for consistency, I think I should stick there - my gut feeling is that you should too. If you live half between the two, then maybe go for it.

Re: H2B Rejected
 

agreed, that had crossed my mind also. Either a) looks suspicious in more sinister terms, or b) looks like I am trying to purposely dodge the system.

I think it's a non starter anyway, for those reasons and also for the fact there are no guarentees at either one. Each case is individual and any one person can decide I am or am not eligible.

Further word I have had from the lawyer is the following paragraph:

"In terms of documentation, almost anything suffices so long as it helps to show that your permanent home is in the UK. I always tell clients to look for documents showing a home mortgage/deed/lease, utility bills, car ownership, insurance, bank statements, etc. Do your best – even letters from people saying that they know you intend to return are helpful."

Any suggestions for suitable documents based on this? It's about proving my residence, which is as I say my parents, but still a valid residence none the less. Only thing being that any bills, mortgage stuff, etc wouldn't have my name on it it. I can get a bank statement easy enough. Is it worth having a substantial amount of money in that account to show I have money hear in an account I'm 'leaving behind'. I also have 2 ISAs with a few thousand pounds in each. Will statements for those be suitable?

Also considered having my brothers car put into my name temporarily. He lives in London so it basically sits in our driveway and i think it is also off the road. Any thoughts? I assume the only documentation this would give me would be the car registration document, which in turn will also have the date in became 'mine' so it would be easy enough to see it was done recently.

Others have also suggested maybe applying for a course or something, but I'm not sure on that. Perhaps would have been worth it for an h2b that is a matter of months and could show its what im doing when I get back. But why would i be there trying to get a 3 year visa if im starting a course later in the year.

I'd ideally like to get a few things together. I want to be able to go in the embassy and if they turn me away at least be able to say "what else could I have shown?" as opposed to going in with one thing thinking it might be enough, it might not.

Beyond that my only worry is that the fact I have been turned away for lack of ties already. It potentially presents an easy option for an interviewer to reject me. The lawyer also said generally the 'ties to home' isnt an issue, but also that he's heard about it more and more from people going to the London embassy for a P1. I also wonder about the fact they may ask why I tried for an h2b then a p1 in quick succession. But I guess nobody but the consular office I see on the day can decide whether these will be factors.

Again, any input would be appreciated. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I'm quite nervous about it. Thanks