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Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Old Apr 11th 2013, 1:40 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by MikeCole View Post
.... Another likely scenario is they say you were here previously for 88 days and only left last week, why are you back, what are your reasons for visiting? I'm honest and I state I was here as an amateur athlete which is permitted on the VWP program and my season has two weeks left to run so I went back to the UK for a quick break and now I'm back for two weeks. I have my return flight, I start a course of study next month, I begin training with a European team in two weeks and they will be able to clarify this with anyone they call in the US or back home.

Is that unrealistic? .....
Seems entirely reasonable, and likely to work. In fact I read this thread early yesterday and came back today to suggest the possibility of a mid-season break and a short trip back to Blighty. The only enhancement I would recommend is to have as many documents as possible with you when you come back after the break, because nobody is going to start making phone calls to verify your story. So you need to bring paperwork to show that you are about to start playing for a team in Europe, as well as starting a course of study (hopefully plausibly close together because the immigration officer might smell a rat if you're studying in, say, Manchester and playing in, say, Munich!)

Last edited by Pulaski; Apr 11th 2013 at 1:43 pm.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 3:02 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Seems entirely reasonable, and likely to work. In fact I read this thread early yesterday and came back today to suggest the possibility of a mid-season break and a short trip back to Blighty. The only enhancement I would recommend is to have as many documents as possible with you when you come back after the break, because nobody is going to start making phone calls to verify your story. So you need to bring paperwork to show that you are about to start playing for a team in Europe, as well as starting a course of study (hopefully plausibly close together because the immigration officer might smell a rat if you're studying in, say, Manchester and playing in, say, Munich!)
Yep, thanks. That does seem reasonable however I mentioned returning for a short break in the UK a few days close to the 90 day limit in case I don't get allowed back in and the disappointment will be less. I can only imagine how frustrating it will be to return home in early June (mid-season) for example and be refused entry for the second part of the season.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 11:34 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by MikeCole View Post
What are the main concerns when using the VWP i.e overstaying, working, breaking the law etc.
If you overstay on the VWP, you can never again use the VWP and will, thereafter, require a visa to visit the US. Only you can determine whether or not that's going to be an issue for you. If you work and get caught, nothing really bad will happen to you... but your employer will get a hefty fine - which may make them hesitant to employ you again even if, in the future, you have permission to work. Only you can determine whether or not that's going to be an issue for you. If you break the law and get caught, you face immediate removal from the US with a possible ban. Again, only you can determine whether or not that's going to be an issue for you.

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Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:00 am
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by ian-mstm View Post
If you overstay on the VWP, you can never again use the VWP and will, thereafter, require a visa to visit the US. Only you can determine whether or not that's going to be an issue for you. If you work and get caught, nothing really bad will happen to you... but your employer will get a hefty fine - which may make them hesitant to employ you again even if, in the future, you have permission to work. Only you can determine whether or not that's going to be an issue for you. If you break the law and get caught, you face immediate removal from the US with a possible ban. Again, only you can determine whether or not that's going to be an issue for you.

Ian
Sorry I wasn't clear, you misunderstood what I meant.

I meant what are the border officials biggest concerns when somebody wants to use the VWP consecutively i.e stay for 90 days, return home for a week and stay another month and then return home.

I know it's there to prevent people staying or taking advantage but I can't really see the harm in somebody wanting to spend a couple of months in Florida for example, head home for a week and then decide they want to do shopping in New York for a week. Should they really be denied entry?

I'm just a bit disappointed in the system I suppose. Want to stay for more than 90 days? Apply for a visa which can be approved/denied depending on the officer's mood or personality. Oh and if that happens, you can't travel on the VWP after all.
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 1:38 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by MikeCole View Post
I meant what are the border officials biggest concerns when somebody wants to use the VWP consecutively i.e stay for 90 days, return home for a week and stay another month and then return home.
Their biggest concern is that you might be trying to live in the USA as a visitor, which is not allowed. Or that since you have so much free time, that you might not have any ties back home (job, family, school), and might try to live in the USA. Or, if you don't have a source of income, that you might try to work in the USA to support your lengthy (or multiple) stays.

Should they really be denied entry?
The POE agent will deny anyone he or she thinks is misusing or abusing the VWP or B-2 visa.

I'm just a bit disappointed in the system I suppose. Want to stay for more than 90 days? Apply for a visa which can be approved/denied depending on the officer's mood or personality. Oh and if that happens, you can't travel on the VWP after all.
Yep. No one said the system was perfect. I'd say your situation is not the majority of people coming to the USA for tourism. That's why it feels like it doesn't fit you...because you don't fit the regular mold of a tourist to the USA.

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Old Apr 12th 2013, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Not clear indeed! Ian answered the question you asked, which he quoted. "what I meant" was something entirely different.

Regards, JEff

Originally Posted by MikeCole View Post
Sorry I wasn't clear, you misunderstood what I meant.

I meant what are the border officials biggest concerns when somebody wants to use the VWP consecutively i.e stay for 90 days, return home for a week and stay another month and then return home.
Originally Posted by ian-mstm View Post
Originally Posted by MikeCole
What are the main concerns when using the VWP i.e overstaying, working, breaking the law etc.
If you overstay on the VWP, you can never again use the VWP and will, thereafter, require a visa to visit the US. Only you can determine whether or not that's going to be an issue for you. If you work and get caught, nothing really bad will happen to you... but your employer will get a hefty fine - which may make them hesitant to employ you again even if, in the future, you have permission to work. Only you can determine whether or not that's going to be an issue for you. If you break the law and get caught, you face immediate removal from the US with a possible ban. Again, only you can determine whether or not that's going to be an issue for you.

Ian
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Old Apr 12th 2013, 11:41 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by MikeCole View Post
I meant what are the border officials biggest concerns when somebody wants to use the VWP consecutively i.e stay for 90 days, return home for a week and stay another month and then return home.
Their biggest concern is that you are abusing the system. Never forget that their job is to keep non-USC's out of the US unless they fall within several narrowly-defined exceptions to the law... and they're quite happy to do their job well.


Should they really be denied entry?
Yes... if the officer thinks they should be! See above re: their job.


I'm just a bit disappointed in the system I suppose.
With respect, the US government doesn't care about your disappointment.

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Old Apr 13th 2013, 8:05 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

hi mike, a long time ago i was in your situation.

ie was a proffesional soccer player in England and got seriously injured but it ended my carear.

Can i ask who you coach or play for in UK you can pm me.

I am 40 now and here through marriage. Where in the USA are you planning on coming to.

Just wanted to say hi really and wish you the best of luck in your endeavours.

and if you need any help i will see what i can do.

The womans professional league starts today in the USA have you thought about trying to get a coaching role in that.

good luck
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Old Mar 2nd 2014, 8:53 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

I'm not necessarily sure that the B2 visa was the correct visa to be originally given.

This states (from US consulate Amsterday):

We are a choir that has been invited to perform in the United States. What type of visa do we require?

If you are all amateurs and you will be performing in a social and/or charitable context, you will require B-2 visas, or if eligible may travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program. However, if you will be performing to a paying audience, you require P visas. If you are professional musicians, or the group includes a mixture of profession and amateur musicians, you will require P visas.
It's a tough one because the majority of USL Premier Development League teams bar one classifies their players as amateurs, which means the players don't receive payment. They can receive housing, transport etc but that is still classed as necessary expenses and not payment, so the players still retain amateur status. The interesting thing from the above quote is that the USL PDL league is not a charitable/social context. It's a high level of play and fans pay to watch games.

Going forward I would suggest it's too risky as a 22/23 year old to apply for a B2 visa. I see no reason why he couldn't get a visa if a pro team wants him on the team. For the above scenario I would suggest to go on the VWP and stay for 90 days, work with the team to find the best dates to arrive/depart.

Now, if the OP wants or needs to stay for more than 90 days i.e he originally books a 90 day round trip to the USA and he wants to spend another couple of weeks or a month because the season ends in July and he wants to spend some time seeing the USA I would suggest he doesn't return home. I don't see why he couldn't spend 45 days in the US, book a flight to Guatemala and stay for a day or two. If questioned "why were you in GUA, what were you doing?", it's perfectly reason to say "I was visiting a friend/I had a business meeting for soccer!". "Where are you going now?" "The Guatemala trip was a last minute thing to catch up with a friend who was in Guatemala, I'm now heading back to (destination) in US to finish my vacation (or amateur soccer season)". When are you leaving the US? Same date as originally booked (i.e 90 day limit). OP gets passport stamped, 90 days reset and back in US. He can then change his flight home to a date that falls in line with the new 90 day clock.

It may not be right, but I see no reason why the above wouldn't work. I know plenty of people who come and go from the US and don't usually face an issue. The OP has a good record of visiting the US, he isn't working, he just may need some extra time. Just offering a solution, don't shoot me down...the same solution that was discussed above by returning home in the middle of the 90 days. Of course he can leave after the original 90 days and return a few weeks later if he really wants to head back to to the US but that seems more costly.
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Old Mar 2nd 2014, 9:03 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Horribly horribly dangerous.

Just because they are amateur for Football purposes does not mean they are amateur for immigration purposes.

So he pops out to Guatemala for a day. Comes back in and they say do I look like a muppet? and send him back to Guatemala. Then what?
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Old Mar 2nd 2014, 9:10 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Horribly horribly dangerous.

Just because they are amateur for Football purposes does not mean they are amateur for immigration purposes.

So he pops out to Guatemala for a day. Comes back in and they say do I look like a muppet? and send him back to Guatemala. Then what?
Understood. I don't actually know if for immigration purposes it's amateur. I don't know what the guidelines is. All I know is the status of the league which is amateur, players don't receive payment. They usually get housing i.e a hotel room or stay with a guest family. The coaches are generally paid, and fans pay to watch the team.

They originally gave him the B2 visa so the immigration officer must have decided it was amateur. I am not sure when he goes on the VWP that he has to disclose anything about the football anyway if that could be an issue. What are we saying here? That he may not be eligible on VWP and will get denied a visa if he applies. Purpose of visit should just be vacation then.

I am just pretty sure that there are thousands of tourists/visitors who fly into the US and then may need to head to somewhere else outside of the bordering countries before returning and finishing there trip. He wouldn't be disclosing he's after an extra few weeks, because he would tell the officer he's leaving the same date as previously.
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Old Mar 3rd 2014, 12:37 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by Cubero17 View Post
I'm not necessarily sure that the B2 visa was the correct visa to be originally given.
Every post is time/date stamped. Why on earth did you resurrect a thread that's almost a year old?

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Old Mar 3rd 2014, 11:05 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by ian-mstm View Post
Every post is time/date stamped. Why on earth did you resurrect a thread that's almost a year old?

Ian
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Old Mar 4th 2014, 4:21 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Horribly horribly dangerous.

Just because they are amateur for Football purposes does not mean they are amateur for immigration purposes.

So he pops out to Guatemala for a day. Comes back in and they say do I look like a muppet? and send him back to Guatemala. Then what?
Well, if the USA officials think like that then they are muppets. I'll tell you something geeeza if I go to the US on holiday, lets say for two months in Los Angeles over the summer, and after a month my friend calls me and says "Hey I'm working over in Guatemala, come over for a few days"....US Immigration wouldn't dare not let me back into the country.
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Old Mar 4th 2014, 4:24 pm
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Default Re: Football / B2 Visa - Back again after two years!

That is so funny, even if it is not quite the situation.
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