doctor scrumpy

Hi there I am sure it was you that mentioned you brewed your own cider. Can you give me any tips on which sites I could visit for info and the stuff to brew the nectar of the Gods ?

Finally given up getting any decent cider in the US.

Cheers

Matthew Udall

Cider pretty much makes itself; however there are things that can be done to make it better than nature would do on its own.

What I did (for my last batch, and I followed what a guy in my beer club did last year with "his" cider) was to get my hands on around 7 to 8 gallons of pure, raw, fresh pressed juice from my apple orchard connection (Charlotte Law, but this is in Cal and I don't know where you are located). At the time I picked up my juice, they currently had 13 different apple varieties coming on line in the orchard, so my juice was a blend of all 13 varieties.

I brought it home, loosened the caps (so the gallon bottles would not explode) and let it sit overnight at room temp. Oh, be sure to get juice that has not had any sulfites or other preservatives added to it (might be hard to find unless you press the apples yourself or have someone do it for you). I wanted to give the natural "bugs" and "wild yeast" a chance to do their thing (for a day or two) as I thought that might add a natural "bite" or interesting flavor to the cider.

The next day I noticed that each of the gallon jugs was starting to ferment on its own due to the wild yeast, so I moved 4.5 to 5 gallons of it to my primary fermentor (you can use a bucket with airtight lid and airlock, or a glass jug with airlock). I believe I also added around a pound of dextrose (simple brewers sugar) just to help bump up the sugar content of the juice (meaning it would have slightly more alcohol when it was finished).

I took around 1.5 gallons of the remaining juice and put it in a large pot on the stove, and heated it to a boil. I stood there and stirred it for around 1 to 2 hours as the volume of the juice reduced to around 4 cups of pure apple essence (I also added a couple of inches of cinnamon stick to the reduction while boiling to add a little extra flavor). It turned out to be "very" thick, like syrup, and full of apple flavor (tasted like a piece of Jolly Rancher apple candy).

I took that and put it in a container and put it in the freezer for later use.

Add your yeast culture to the cider in your bucket or jug. Shoot in oxygen if you have it, or simply shake it for a half hour or so (if using oxygen, you really need only shoot it into the cider, using an air-stone, for around 30 seconds). You can find some good cider yeast at your local home brew store, from White Labs, or perhaps the Wyeast Company. I don't recall which particular yeast I used as I'm typing this from the office, and my recipe is at home. You can also simply use a good ale yeast as well (believe that is what I did…. Wyeast 1318 perhaps.. again, I'd have to double check my recipe sheet).

It will take around 6 months for the cider in the bucket or jug to ferment out and clear (particulates drop to the bottom). During these 6 months, if you were to taste it, you will likely pick up on a big sulfur flavor, but that should go away with time. Once my cider was finished fermenting, it was at around 6% alcohol, but had hardly any apple flavor or aroma left (only a very slight amount of both).

Rack that off into a secondary bucket or jug. Add a stabilizer (I think I used potassium sorbate, but I'd have to double check… just ask your home brew supplier for a "stabilizer" to inhibit refermentation). I put in a stabilizer because I didn't want the yeast to start eating the apply syrup that I was about to put in… I wanted that syrup to remain uneaten so it could impart flavor and aroma, not to be more yeast food that would just dissipate if fermentation started again [plus if it started again after bottling, I would have 2 cases of bottle bombs that would likely explode later on].

Now thaw out the apple syrup you froze 6 months earlier. Take a little water in a pan, and mix it with the syrup in order to water it down a bit. Now add that to the cider you just moved to the secondary vessel.

I found with mine, that the apply syrup wanted to settle on the bottom of the secondary vessel, so each day I grabbed the glass jug and swirled it around to kick the syrup back up into the cider.

Even though the syrup will always settle on the bottom, it does impart a powerful apple flavor and aroma back into the cider.

The finished product turned out great, and I just sent 3 bottles of it to Red Hook, New York to enter it into the Cider category for this year's AHA National competition. I'll be competing against every other cider submitted from US and Canadian cider makers, so the odds are I won't take a medal, however I'll find out if I'll have any luck during the AHA Convention (this year being held in Las Vegas in mid June).

I plan on keeping the rest of the cider until this fall. I'll enjoy it during the fall, sitting on the front porch with my roommate (he made 5 gallons as well) and some of our other beer/mead/cider making friends (and of course, I'll go get juice to make another batch to have on hand next year).

One of my favorite commercial ciders comes from the "Ace" company. Look at Trader Joes for it. I think their pear cider is outstanding (I believe their pear cider mixed with Bass Ale is known as a "snake bite"), and I like the blackberry cider and their honey/apple ciders the best (but I don't think their regular apple cider is as good as the others varieties I've mentioned). I'm not too fond of the ciders from Blackthorn (sp?).

Good luck, and let's swap a bottle next year if you make some this fall.

mstracy

Just as a matter of interest, I don't know about the US but in the UK, "snake bite" is a mixture of cider and lager (can someone give me a better translation than "beer"? My USC wife can't.) the object being a cloudy liquid (the coudier the better) which has a greater effect than the sum of it's parts.

Mark

Matthew Udall

Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong (about the Bass). Perhaps it was Harp. It's been quite a while since I've had a snake-bite (last one was years ago when I still lived and practiced in SF). I also recall trying a 1/2 and 1/2 mixture of pear cider and Guinness, which was pretty good as well.

If you happen to be lucky enough to live near a Trader Joe's store, try the "Inebriator Stout" (an Imperial Stout) and "Old Saguaro" (a fine barleywine, which is my specialty... took the gold medal at AHA last year for barleywine for the entire U.S. and Canada... I'm defending my title this year) from a brewery in Arizona. They come in 4 packs, and are both outstanding (and worth collecting, keeping in your cellar for years to come to watch how they age). They are also both very good right away.

Lagers are generally fermented cold, and stored cold (and use a "bottom fermenting yeast"). Ale's are generally fermented warmer (with a "top fermenting" yeast), and due to the higher temperatures of the fermentation, usually have more esters in the flavor (fruit flavors that are created by the yeast during fermentation).

Exile

"mstracy" wrote
    > Just as a matter of interest, I don't know about the US but in the UK,
    > "snake bite" is a mixture of cider and lager the object being a
    > cloudy liquid (the coudier the better) which has a greater effect than
    > the sum of it's parts.

Agreed about the mixture, but I think that the cloudiness is more inevitable
than desirable.
Often you wind up with a thick scum on the top depending on the varieties of
cider and lager mixed.

It's lethal stuff and - regardless of your constitution - three pints is
usually more than enough for anyone. Most pubs in the UK - if they serve it
at all - will only serve you a couple of pints before refusing to serve
more.

I like my snakebite mixed with a splash of blackcurrant cordial and a shot
of pernod. I think that the colloquial name for this is "Diesel" and it's
not to everyones taste. I tend to sleepwalk (or do things in the middle of
the night that I don't recall) after a couple of pints of it and as such I'm
banned from even drinking cider and lager in the same session ;-)


Andy

Exile

"Matthew Udall" wrote:
    > I also recall trying a 1/2 and 1/2 mixture of pear cider and Guinness,
    > which was pretty good as well.

I think that's a poor man's Black Velvet.
The original being Guinness and Champagne.


    > Lagers are generally
    > fermented cold, and stored cold (and use a "bottom fermenting yeast").

Lager would be most American "beer" that comes in a bottle and is
mass-produced.
Bud & Miller are a couple that come to mind or - my favourite - Fosters.

I've never really understood the concept of charging more for "import beer"
such as Fosters when it's almost certainly brewed under license in the US
(or maybe Canada) :-)


Andy

doctor scrumpy

Snakebite was a mix of lager & cider, they would not serve it in pubs as I recall.

Thanks for the tips Matthew, will look into getting some done.

Matthew Udall

Hi Andy,
I generally don't buy Bud or Miller (now a Budvar would be a different story) however as a beer maker (just as a hobby) I actually do have some respect for what these macro-brew companies can do. There are so many variables that go into the final flavor (grain bill, mash temp, water chemistry, flocculation of the yeast, fermenting temp, etc.) that it's actually pretty amazing to me that they can produce a consistent product in various breweries across the U.S. using different water sources.

There was a guy in my beer club (Doug King) that dedicated around 10 years of his life developing a clone of Bud. He figured it out, and took a few bottles to the closest Bud brewery. He gave one to the master brewer, who tasted it and asked for another bottle to send to their lab for analysis. Turns out old Doug nailed it, and it was within a few fractions of a percentage point of being an exact copy (not really sure how they measure that). Apparently they were not too happy with Doug.

Doug died in a freak auto accident shortly thereafter (his VW bus was smashed between two semi's) when a flaming cat (was actually on fire) fell onto the freeway in front of one of the semi's who slammed on the brakes, with Doug and another Simi right behind (and I believe there was pea soup fog mixed in). I never got to meet Doug, but I do have his recipe for Dougweiser. I plan on making up a batch one of these days, once I replace my lagering chest freezer that went on the fritz a few months ago.

Apparently Doug also made a decent Potato based beer, that he called Spudweiser (I kid you not).

There is a world class pub here in Pasadena called, "Lucky Baldwins", and Dave (the owner) had Michael Jackson over on Monday (the famous English Beer critic, not the infamous American singer) to give a speech and samples of 5 or 6 beers that he features in his "Michael Jackson's Rare Beer Club" (you sign up, and get sent rare beer that you just can't find in the U.S. on a monthly basis). I went and it was pretty fascinating stuff. Plus, they served some sort of food to complement each beer that was brought out.

They paired some smoked Salmon with one, a hearty beef stew with another, a really good sea food soup/stew with another, rabbit stew with another, and finally a chocolate moose (sp?) with the final one. I'm still learning about Belgian brews (I like some of the sour one's) and I plan on making a few one day (but they usually require injecting various types of microbes into the beer to achieve the "Belgian Funk" (as I call it… Yum, horse blanket flavor…:-).

Apparently, when using some of these microbes (PDO for example… not the full spelling) you have to dedicate some equipment just for that beer and "never" again use it on a regular beer. It's impossible to get some of these microbes out of the equipment, and if let run amuck, they can take over your entire house and then every single beer you make after that will have that same funk in it (you would basically have to move and buy new equipment in order to get away from the problem).

Andrew DeFaria

Matthew Udall wrote:

    > There was a guy in my beer club (Doug King) that dedicated around 10
    > years of his life developing a clone of Bud. He figured it out, and
    > took a few bottles to the closest Bud brewery. He gave one to the
    > master brewer, who tasted it and asked for another bottle to send to
    > their lab for analysis. Turns out old Doug nailed it, and it was
    > within a few fractions of a percentage point of being an exact copy
    > (not really sure
    > how they measure that). Apparently they were not too happy with Doug.
    > Doug died in a freak auto accident shortly thereafter (his VW bus was
    > smashed between two semi's) when a flaming cat (was actually on fire)
    > fell onto the freeway in front of one of the semi's who slammed on the
    > brakes, with Doug and another Simi right behind (and I believe there
    > was pea soup fog mixed in).

Putting 2 + 2 together and all I can say is it must have been Bush who
had him knocked off - Anhesier Bush that is... :-)
--
Why is it called Alcoholics Anonymous when the first thing you do is
stand up and say, "My name is Bob, and I am an alcoholic"?

mstracy

I worked for a while as a cellarman and used to run the bar most weekdays. During my time there we did a few experiments with a few locals. Everyone tended to get their snakebites made with the strongest cider and the strongest lager. The result was mediocre at best. We then tried a no-alchohol lager with a no-alcohol cider. The result was something like smog in a glass and the effect was devastating. It seems that the chemical reaction produces something far stronger than the brewers intended and has nothing to do with the alcohol content but lots to do with how cloudy it is.... go figure...

Mark

Exile

"mstracy" wrote:
    > We then
    > tried a no-alchohol lager with a no-alcohol cider. The result was
    > something like smog in a glass and the effect was devastating. It seems
    > that the chemical reaction produces something far stronger than the
    > brewers intended and has nothing to do with the alcohol content but lots
    > to do with how cloudy it is.... go figure...


I think that's known as the placebo effect.
Unless that is you ran this experiment after the one using the strong stuff
;-)


Andy