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-   -   E2 essential employee visa denied (https://britishexpats.com/forum/us-immigration-citizenship-visas-34/e2-essential-employee-visa-denied-925839/)

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 10:01 am

E2 essential employee visa denied
 
hey all,

unfortunately I was denied an e2 essential employee visa to my company.

On the basis of being not essential enough for the company according to the consular officer. I think the main reasons were her saying I didn’t have enough experience in my field (even though I have 11 years)

i am not sure wheather to reapply and do a second interview? And me & wife are starting to give up hope on even trying again.

If you need more info I am happy to explain more. The lawyer expressed that we need to just talk about qualifications and not experience. Even though I did say about my qualifications on previous interview, but she just took apart my experience saying it’s not enough.

If there’s anyone out there that can help we really need some advice and some belief we can get this.

thanks

Florriedot Jun 18th 2019 10:13 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
Hi,

sorry to hear your application was denied

my husband is in the process of applying for the E2 visa.

How soon after submitting your DS160 did you get an interview?

Thanks

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 10:18 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Florriedot (Post 12699596)
Hi,

sorry to hear your application was denied

my husband is in the process of applying for the E2 visa.

How soon after submitting your DS160 did you get an interview?

Thanks

you can get an appointment fairly quickly if you look every day for cancellations.

my company in the US found mine for me as they were looking for us when all the people in the U.K. were asleep. And we got one in a matter of a week by doing that. I recommend refreshing the page every 20 mins or so. And then if you have anyone in the US that can look then that is the best way

good luck

Florriedot Jun 18th 2019 10:22 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
Do they need time review all the documents etc I wouldn’t have thought a week is long enough . I read online that it can take 6-8 weeks 🤷🏼‍♀️ And then you apply for an interview.

sorry to ask all the questions especially in your current circumstance
x

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 10:31 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Florriedot (Post 12699602)
Do they need time review all the documents etc I wouldn’t have thought a week is long enough . I read online that it can take 6-8 weeks 🤷🏼‍♀️ And then you apply for an interview.

sorry to ask all the questions especially in your current circumstance
x

It may be different for an E2 investor. But I am pretty sure you can still get an appointment fairly quickly as I have heard that an E2 Investor visa you cannot pay for an premium process delivery of passports as they must look into the documents more (this is what I have heard btw so may not be true)

civilservant Jun 18th 2019 11:11 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
Not sure providing more info to us will help. Follow the advice that you were given by your companies lawyers, they are far more knowledgeable (or should be) than we are as internet lay people.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 11:19 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by civilservant (Post 12699637)
Not sure providing more info to us will help. Follow the advice that you were given by your companies lawyers, they are far more knowledgeable (or should be) than we are as internet lay people.

yes but all the lawyer is saying is to go by my qualifications and nothing else.

Reference below from a website.

An applicant seeking E-2 classification as an essential employee must demonstrate specialized and unique knowledge or skills that are essential to the success of the E-2 business. The applicant must be able to prove that their skills are specialized and that they have unique expertise that is necessary for this specific E-2 business.........




civilservant Jun 18th 2019 11:22 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
I agree that your unique experience with the company is an essential part of the visa qualification, however it appears that this was insufficient for the officer to grant the visa.

Do you feel you could have answered the questions asked better? If not, it may be the end of the road.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 11:31 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by civilservant (Post 12699646)
I agree that your unique experience with the company is an essential part of the visa qualification, however it appears that this was insufficient for the officer to grant the visa.

Do you feel you could have answered the questions asked better? If not, it may be the end of the road.

I feel like the consular officer based it all on experience. I have worked 11 years in this field but the officer would only accept 6 years as that was the period where it was full time. And then the officer knocked off 3 years as some of it in the US. (Which i worked for the same company I am applying now but through a J1 and directly to the company.) this is through there E2 Visa company so they can still provide U.K. employees to keep the same image of the company. I am not sure what else to do...

The only thing I regret saying is sort of agreeing to 6 years experience as it was full time but there was another 2 years experience from a school program.

I am 26 if that’s makes any difference, it also really frustrates me that other people for this company got there E2 with similar circumstances and even less years experience, some even being 22/23

civilservant Jun 18th 2019 11:40 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
You may have just got an officer having a bad day, it can and does happen. There's no harm in reapplying if that's what the company want to do, but an appeal is pointless.

Nutmegger Jun 18th 2019 1:52 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699650)


I feel like the consular officer based it all on experience. I have worked 11 years in this field but the officer would only accept 6 years as that was the period where it was full time. And then the officer knocked off 3 years as some of it in the US. (Which i worked for the same company I am applying now but through a J1 and directly to the company.) this is through there E2 Visa company so they can still provide U.K. employees to keep the same image of the company. I am not sure what else to do...

The only thing I regret saying is sort of agreeing to 6 years experience as it was full time but there was another 2 years experience from a school program.

I am 26 if that’s makes any difference, it also really frustrates me that other people for this company got there E2 with similar circumstances and even less years experience, some even being 22/23

So your eleven years of experience starts when you were 15 -- I think that would raise a red flag with the CO that you were stretching the boundaries a bit. It also sounds as if you are doing this through some kind of agency, rather than directly with the UK company, which may also cause concerns.

Pulaski Jun 18th 2019 2:02 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Nutmegger (Post 12699729)
So your eleven years of experience starts when you were 15 -- I think that would raise a red flag with the CO that you were stretching the boundaries a bit. .....

I agree, except I would have used "lot" as the last word.

The whole case smacks of desperation (multiple E-2 applications, a rejected J-1 deemed an over-reach, stretching the experience to include part-time work, being on a "school program", time when you are less than 18 years old, etc,) and if there is one factor that is going to kill a visa application, of any sort, it is desperation.

celticgrid Jun 18th 2019 3:11 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
You seem very focused on your experience, and the officer's treatment of your claimed experience, yet earlier on you say your lawyer said to stay away from the experience angle?


Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699589)
The lawyer expressed that we need to just talk about qualifications and not experience.

To me that suggests the lawyer doesn't think there's a case based on your experience, and the officer reviewing seems to have been of the same opinion. You can go for another interview but it feels like the odds are against you.

shiversaint Jun 18th 2019 3:36 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699643)
An applicant seeking E-2 classification as an essential employee must demonstrate specialized and unique knowledge or skills that are essential to the success of the E-2 business. The applicant must be able to prove that their skills are specialized and that they have unique expertise that is necessary for this specific E-2 business.........

I warned you in your other thread about this, and asked you to post the specific questions that you wanted help with. The way you answer the questions on the DS-160 is critical for a successful essential employee application. I would bet a large sum of money that you did not offer the right specificity and wording to explain how the E-2 business needs you and your experience derived skills to succeed.

Essential Employee visas are typically lawyer only endeavours, and it sounds like your one was no good. Coupled with the aforementioned posts about your experience being potentially questionable....well, recipe for disaster. You can definitely try again, - it happened to one of my colleagues - but I would leave it a year so you can demonstrate that something has changed. Going in again ASAP is red flag galore.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 3:54 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by civilservant (Post 12699655)
You may have just got an officer having a bad day, it can and does happen. There's no harm in reapplying if that's what the company want to do, but an appeal is pointless.

Company and Lawyer seems to think it was a bad interviewer and lawyer said they sounded disinterested.

Just don’t really want to go back and hear the same thing. I am sure one of the questions will be asking what has changed from last time.. and my lawyer wants me to say the officer just misunderstood.

Didnt have an option to appeal, they just handed me the 214b letter

Rete Jun 18th 2019 3:59 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Nutmegger (Post 12699729)
So your eleven years of experience starts when you were 15 -- I think that would raise a red flag with the CO that you were stretching the boundaries a bit. It also sounds as if you are doing this through some kind of agency, rather than directly with the UK company, which may also cause concerns.

:goodpost:

Exactly my previous thoughts. Why would you think work experience from the age of 15 can or should be counted as qualification experience? A 15 year old is at school and if not, then they are missing a heck of a lot of education. It can't be viewed as qualification but would be viewed as training.

I wouldn't try again until you have become truly qualified in your professional career.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 4:09 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Nutmegger (Post 12699729)
So your eleven years of experience starts when you were 15 -- I think that would raise a red flag with the CO that you were stretching the boundaries a bit. It also sounds as if you are doing this through some kind of agency, rather than directly with the UK company, which may also cause concerns.

I had a very similar CV/resume to everyone else that got approved. Like I said most people were 22/23 when they got approved, one being in March.

I wouldn’t say it’s an agency as my company had the lawyer to deal with all cases. The company has only around 16/17 employees from the UK

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 4:13 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by shiversaint (Post 12699797)
I warned you in your other thread about this, and asked you to post the specific questions that you wanted help with. The way you answer the questions on the DS-160 is critical for a successful essential employee application. I would bet a large sum of money that you did not offer the right specificity and wording to explain how the E-2 business needs you and your experience derived skills to succeed.

Essential Employee visas are typically lawyer only endeavours, and it sounds like your one was no good. Coupled with the aforementioned posts about your experience being potentially questionable....well, recipe for disaster. You can definitely try again, - it happened to one of my colleagues - but I would leave it a year so you can demonstrate that something has changed. Going in again ASAP is red flag galore.

There is no questions on the ds160 about why the company needs you.

It asks for general duties in the position at the US which I am sure gets filled in for everyone that got approved before exactly the same.

The only thing is my company have had a denial in the past the first time and then the second time got accepted. I think they have delt with this a 2/3 times and want me to do the same thing.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 4:14 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
It asks for general duties in the position at the US which I am sure gets filled in for everyone that got approved before exactly the same.
[QUOTE]

Filled in by the lawyer I mean

Pulaski Jun 18th 2019 4:14 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699819)
I had a very similar CV/resume t everyone else that got approved. Like I said most people were 22/23 when they got approved, one being in March. ....

Interpretation of the rules for processing and granting work visas in the US has tightened up quite a lot in the past couple of years, and by all accounts I have read continues to get incrementally tighter as time passes.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 4:15 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by celticgrid (Post 12699780)
You seem very focused on your experience, and the officer's treatment of your claimed experience, yet earlier on you say your lawyer said to stay away from the experience angle?



To me that suggests the lawyer doesn't think there's a case based on your experience, and the officer reviewing seems to have been of the same opinion. You can go for another interview but it feels like the odds are against you.

So how much experience is considered essential if 6 years being full time from age 20 is not enough?

Nutmegger Jun 18th 2019 4:19 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699819)


I had a very similar CV/resume to everyone else that got approved. Like I said most people were 22/23 when they got approved, one being in March.

I wouldn’t say it’s an agency as my company had the lawyer to deal with all cases. The company has only around 16/17 employees from the UK

You say you are "doing this through their E-2 visa company" -- just what does that mean? And you admit to having spent a great deal of time in the US, despite being only 26, which rather dilutes their contention that you bring essential UK experience to the table. Time to create a solid CV in the UK before you try again.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 4:21 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12699824)
Interpretation of the rules for processing and granting work visas in the US has tightened up quite a lot in the past couple of years, and by all accounts I have read continues to get incrementally tighter as time passes.

So it’s got that much stricter since March?

My friend got accepted and is only 22. I don’t see how he would have the experience and has the exact same qualifications as me.

I got asked 13/14 questions and he got asked 4 and said it was easy.


Nutmegger Jun 18th 2019 4:22 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699831)


So it’s got that much stricter since March?

My friend got accepted and is only 22. I don’t see how he would have the experience and has the exact same qualifications as me.

I got asked 13/14 questions and he got asked 4 and said it was easy.


With the same company? Perhaps the authorities are seeing a pattern there that they don't like, and are cracking down.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 4:24 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Nutmegger (Post 12699830)
You say you are "doing this through their E-2 visa company" -- just what does that mean? And you admit to having spent a great deal of time in the US, despite being only 26, which rather dilutes their contention that you bring essential UK experience to the table. Time to create a solid CV in the UK before you try again.

So they have a big company in the US and one of the biggest in its field. The U.K. company that is 50% owned by a U.K. and us citizen subcontracts it’s workers out to the very big company in the US

I have worked 2 years on J1 ‘s in USA for the big company described above and then before that was an F1 visa when I was 19 which was for university for 1 year.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 4:26 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Nutmegger (Post 12699833)
With the same company? Perhaps the authorities are seeing a pattern there that they don't like, and are cracking down.

yes with the exact same company

Pulaski Jun 18th 2019 5:13 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699831)
.... So it’s got that much stricter since March? ....

Yes, perhaps enough to make a difference.

That said, I believe that Nutmegger is probably right, that USCIS is seeing a pattern and is cracking down on wholesale importation of smurf-like workers - lots of small cogs all dong the same job, one that perhaps could be done on-line/ remotely anyway.

celticgrid Jun 18th 2019 6:23 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699826)


So how much experience is considered essential if 6 years being full time from age 20 is not enough?

More than 6.

On the other hand, a quick peek suggests you've never mentioned exactly what this specialist skill is? Sounds like there's this "E2 company" that wants to get you a visa so they can contract you out to a different company. If everything you have said is true regarding others with less experience and exact same paperwork being accepted then the suggestion that this is a tightening of the rules sounds quite plausible. Would be interesting if another of your colleagues, ideally one of those 22-year olds, was granted a visa now, after your rejection. Do you know of any others in the pipeline?

scrubbedexpat099 Jun 18th 2019 6:58 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
I went back and checked the OP's posts just to see if I could get a bigger picture view of the situation and decided there is too little information and you would need to make many assumptions, many of which will no doubt be wrong.

Too many odd bits and pieces.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 7:02 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by celticgrid (Post 12699880)
More than 6.

On the other hand, a quick peek suggests you've never mentioned exactly what this specialist skill is? Sounds like there's this "E2 company" that wants to get you a visa so they can contract you out to a different company. If everything you have said is true regarding others with less experience and exact same paperwork being accepted then the suggestion that this is a tightening of the rules sounds quite plausible. Would be interesting if another of your colleagues, ideally one of those 22-year olds, was granted a visa now, after your rejection. Do you know of any others in the pipeline?

the specialist skill is the qualification here in the U.K. and company’s qualification. Also it is the style of method of skill. A US worker no matter how experienced or skilled can not perform the skill in our way as this is only taught to British workers.

I dont know if they have anymore lined up yet to do an E2. There is only 16-17 people in this U.K. E2 Company to train US workers and to develop the business

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 7:03 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12699895)
I went back and checked the OP's posts just to see if I could get a bigger picture view of the situation and decided there is too little information and you would need to make many assumptions, many of which will no doubt be wrong.

Too many odd bits and pieces.

let me know what you need to know.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 7:05 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12699848)
Yes, perhaps enough to make a difference.

That said, I believe that Nutmegger is probably right, that USCIS is seeing a pattern and is cracking down on wholesale importation of smurf-like workers - lots of small cogs all dong the same job, one that perhaps could be done on-line/ remotely anyway.

this is not wholesale as there is only 16-17 people in the E2 Visa company for a very big US company.

Cannot be done online line or remotely, would be impossible in our field

scrubbedexpat099 Jun 18th 2019 7:05 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
Well I am none the wiser and can not think what it could be, quite fascinating however. Something I have never come across and can not envisage.

Can anyone come up with something that could fit this?

Pulaski Jun 18th 2019 7:17 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699902)
Tthis is not wholesale as there is only 16-17 people in the E2 Visa company for a very big US company. ....

That's quite a lot, "essential" IMO means 2-3 people out of 20, not 100%, or even 50% of the employees. The size of the company that is contracting with your employer is irrelevant.

I can't help but wonder if the objection is that the large US corporation is subcontracting to your employer as a way to do an end-run around the limitations (of numbers of visas available) of the H-1B visa program.

It will be interesting to see if in future those people who already have an E-2 are able to renew it.

Lorneo1067 Jun 18th 2019 7:26 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12699910)
That's quite a lot, "essential" IMO means 2-3 people out of 20, not 100%, or even 50% of the employees. The size of the company that is contracting with your employer is irrelevant.

I can't help but wonder if the objection is that the large US corporation is subcontracting to your employer as a way to do an end-run around the limitations (of numbers of visas available) of the H-1B visa program.

It will be interesting to see if in future those people who already have an E-2 are able to renew it.

It’s a very big company has over 50 sites in the US. And maybe becoming worldwide soon in a couple years as they have joined with another company. (Which Donald trump owns some of the sites lol)

And maybe your right I am not sure on that exactly. All I know is that the company need me at a site in the US and they had other people successful through this so I thought I’d pursue it.

i know one of the employees got renewed recently at the end of last year. His story is that he got denied the first time and then accepted the second time but the officer only gave him 2 years and then he came back to do a renewal and got 5 years.

robtuck Jun 18th 2019 9:18 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
Pure speculation, but given the vague description thus far, it might be that the person assessing your application felt it was about time that "skill" that was thus far only trained to people in the UK, could now be trained out to the USA workforce given a critical mass of UK specialists were now on hand. The gradual change in interpretation of Immigration laws will no doubt have helped them come to that decision, if it is even remotely what happened. And yes, since March is entirely possible - they just changed the top dog with a view to press harder.

You seem very coy about giving out any details about the type of work, so lets make this a safe place, I;ll go first. I work in Contact Centre Forecasting & Planning, Business Process Analysis and Project Management, how about you?

robtuck Jun 18th 2019 9:21 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
oh, and if we don't end up sharing job role information (i'm getting the sense a few people may like to know what it is you do to be able to help you), then if the theory on the reason stands-up (tightening of rules), as it is a human process, a retry may well be a success.

shiversaint Jun 18th 2019 9:52 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by Lorneo1067 (Post 12699822)


There is no questions on the ds160 about why the company needs you.

It asks for general duties in the position at the US which I am sure gets filled in for everyone that got approved before exactly the same.

The only thing is my company have had a denial in the past the first time and then the second time got accepted. I think they have delt with this a 2/3 times and want me to do the same thing.

Do as recommended by your lawyer then if they are so sure.

It has been some time since my Essential Employee application, but I can very clearly remember reading an extensive explanation of what my skills were and their relevance/paramount importance to the business, that our attorney had compiled. This is true for every E-2 applicant we ran through.

tht Jun 18th 2019 10:49 pm

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 

Originally Posted by robtuck (Post 12699969)
oh, and if we don't end up sharing job role information (i'm getting the sense a few people may like to know what it is you do to be able to help you), then if the theory on the reason stands-up (tightening of rules), as it is a human process, a retry may well be a success.

The OP had posted about camp counselor / J1 or similar a long time ago, so it’s probably just something like a soccer camp. The UK thing is probably a branding thing with “football” being a UK sport: https://ukelite.com/employment/

robtuck Jun 19th 2019 3:13 am

Re: E2 essential employee visa denied
 
Intrigued now, certainly the post history provides some colour to the refusal - half the past 3 years have been on J1 Visa's in Summer Camp and then a "trainee" - I can well imagine a rulebook being metaphorically thrown at that being counted in the criteria for the E2, alongside anything pre-18 as well. What can you do in Summer Camp a mere two years ago that would not be known by Americans? Surely in this day an age, football wouldn't support more than the seasonal stuff unless you were a Professional footballer or Coach already.

Rugby maybe? There has been a push on that recently, especially Sevens. Getting that set-up at grassroots level might require some outside knowledge for a while I guess.

Oh hurry-up, Who Dunnit?


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