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Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Old Jun 29th 2004, 12:31 pm
  #16  
Stephen Gallagher
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

    > My father was born in England and immigrated to the US and is now a US
    > citizen. Does that make a British citizen?

You are, most likely, a British citizen.

In order for you to be a British citizen your parents would have to have
been married at the time of your birth, and your father would have
to have been a British citizen when you were born. Note that becoming
a US citizen wouldn't have taken away your father's British citizenship
under British law, unless he became a US citizen before the late 1940s.

If your father became a US citizen after the late 1940s, then he would
have kept his British nationality, under British law, unless he went to a
British consulate and formally renounced it before British consular officers.

If you want to verify whether you are or are not a British citizen, send a letter
to a British consulate listing the dates and places of your birth, your parents'
births, your parent' marriage, and the date that your father naturalized
in the US. They will be able to tell you if it appears that you are British or not.

If you are a British citizen, you will be able to keep that citizenship
for life. I'll take the assumption that you're also a US citizen. Many
people in the US mistakenly believe that the US has a requirement
that US citizens who receive another citizenship through a parent
must choose only one citizenship when they become adults. That
is actually not true. You would be able to keep both citizenships.

Stephen Gallagher

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Old Jun 29th 2004, 1:09 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

The relevant date is 1 January 1949 - from that date, naturalising as a US citizen would not have caused loss of British nationality.

If your parents were not married at the time of birth, but subsequently got married, you may have acquired British citizenship (or its pre 1983 equivalent) on the date of the marriage. Depends on circumstances.

However, if you have had children born in the US yourself, they are most likely not British citizens (unless you have a British born or naturalised spouse).

A good site to read about US law on dual citizenship is http://www.richw.org/dualcit/


Jeremy

Originally posted by Stephen Gallagher
    > My father was born in England and immigrated to the US and is now a US
    > citizen. Does that make a British citizen?

You are, most likely, a British citizen.

In order for you to be a British citizen your parents would have to have
been married at the time of your birth, and your father would have
to have been a British citizen when you were born. Note that becoming
a US citizen wouldn't have taken away your father's British citizenship
under British law, unless he became a US citizen before the late 1940s.

If your father became a US citizen after the late 1940s, then he would
have kept his British nationality, under British law, unless he went to a
British consulate and formally renounced it before British consular officers.



Stephen Gallagher
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Old Jun 29th 2004, 5:33 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Honestly..my opinion is you won't qualify unless YOU were born in the UK.

Your father is able to claim dual citizenship by birthrite...

I live in the UK on an ILR and am eligable for my UK passport this year. (5 years here)

Basically I will hold both UK/US citizenship with the major restriction being I can't serve in the military. (gee, dunno if that is a plus or minus at this point

You would have to reside in the UK or born in the UK to qualify for dual citizenship.

Asp
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Old Jun 29th 2004, 9:20 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Your opinion is most likely incorrect.

Children born overseas to British citizens can often have British citizenship by descent provided the parent was UK born or naturalised.

Rules are murkier for those born prior to 1983, but that's the general picture.

You can verify it yourself by visiting http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk

Jeremy

Originally posted by aspen
Honestly..my opinion is you won't qualify unless YOU were born in the UK.

Your father is able to claim dual citizenship by birthrite...

I live in the UK on an ILR and am eligable for my UK passport this year. (5 years here)

Basically I will hold both UK/US citizenship with the major restriction being I can't serve in the military. (gee, dunno if that is a plus or minus at this point

You would have to reside in the UK or born in the UK to qualify for dual citizenship.

Asp
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Old Jun 30th 2004, 11:06 am
  #20  
Stephen Gallagher
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

    > Honestly..my opinion is you won't qualify unless YOU were born in the
    > UK.
    >
    > Your father is able to claim dual citizenship by birthrite...
    >
    > I
    > live in the UK on an ILR and am eligable for my UK passport this year.
    > (5 years here)
    >
    > Basically I will hold both UK/US citizenship with the
    > major restriction being I can't serve in the military. (gee, dunno if
    > that is a plus or minus at this point

On what basis are you saying that you can't serve in the military
(and to which country's military are you referring)?

You are obviously aware, from your statements, that a person
can hold both US and other citizenships. While the US doesn't
encourage US citizens from serving in a foreign military, it is not
prohibited either.

Foreign military service will cause loss of US citizenship only if
done voluntarily AND done with the intention of giving up US
citizenship.

Britain does not have a restriction against serving in a foreign military,
do they?

Stephen Gallagher
 
Old Jul 1st 2004, 6:58 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Originally posted by aspen
Honestly..my opinion is you won't qualify unless YOU were born in the UK.

Your father is able to claim dual citizenship by birthrite...

I live in the UK on an ILR and am eligable for my UK passport this year. (5 years here)

Basically I will hold both UK/US citizenship with the major restriction being I can't serve in the military. (gee, dunno if that is a plus or minus at this point

You would have to reside in the UK or born in the UK to qualify for dual citizenship.

Asp
Many millions of people around the world have British citizenship by descent (i.e. because their father or, sometimes, their mother was born in the United Kingdom - or even, in rare instances, because a more distant ancester was UK-born). The rules vary depending on various circumstances and factors, and they can be complicated at times, but nevertheless British citizenship by descent is a very real phenomenon!

I have no idea what proportion of British citizens by descent ever act on that citizenship, but that is a different question.

Neither is the concept of citizenship by descent a peculiarly British thing - many other countries (including the USA) confer citizenship by descent if certain criteria are met.

Last edited by CPW; Jul 1st 2004 at 8:54 am.
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Old Jul 1st 2004, 9:06 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

There are also those who have a parent who naturalised in the United Kingdom, and are British by descent as a result (depending on the rules as mentioned below).

Or their parent/ancestor was born or naturalised in a British territory, but that brings in an extra layer or two of complexity.

Jeremy


Originally posted by CPW
Many millions of people around the world have British citizenship by descent (i.e. because their father or, sometimes, their mother was born in the United Kingdom - or even, in rare instances, because a more distant ancester was UK-born). The rules vary depending on various circumstances and factors, and they can be complicated at times, but nevertheless British citizenship by descent is a very real phenomenon!
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Old Jul 1st 2004, 8:35 pm
  #23  
Den
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Almost certainly, providing your Mum and Dad were married.

How do you *prove* your citizenship? Apply for a UK passport (you'll find
that you need a copy of your parents marriage cert, and your fathers birth
cert).

Entering an EU country (including the UK) on a US passport is quite legal
(and not frowned on), however, you will find it so much quicker and easier
with a British passport! NB: Leave the US on your US passport!


"gpictures" <member26016@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My father was born in England and immigrated to the US and is now a US
    > citizen. Does that make a British citizen? Or does it make it easier to
    > obtain British citizenship. Please help. Thanks.
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Jul 1st 2004, 10:18 pm
  #24  
J. J. Farrell
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

aspen <member25997@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Honestly..my opinion is you won't qualify unless YOU were born
    > in the UK.

Your opinion isn't relevant. Citizenship law in the UK is what
matters.

    > You would have to reside in the
    > UK or born in the UK to qualify for dual citizenship.

Nonsense.
 
Old Oct 14th 2004, 1:55 am
  #25  
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Originally Posted by J. J. Farrell
aspen <member25997@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Honestly..my opinion is you won't qualify unless YOU were born
    > in the UK.

Your opinion isn't relevant. Citizenship law in the UK is what
matters.

    > You would have to reside in the
    > UK or born in the UK to qualify for dual citizenship.

Nonsense.
Right. Not sure I understand this all correctly, and am having less than the best luck reaching my "local" consulate in San Francisco to get clarification. My mother is a British citizen-She never applied for US citizenship, but has held a green card for the last 25 years (and for 10 years before that, but there was a period of time in between when we returned to England to live). Does this mean that I can simply ask for the specific form (the Application to be registered as a British Citizen...born before 1983), pay the required fee and would then be considered a dual citizen? (and by extension, if I am a dual citizen of the US and the UK, am I considered a citizen of the EU?)
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Old Oct 14th 2004, 7:16 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Originally Posted by poesy70
Right. Not sure I understand this all correctly, and am having less than the best luck reaching my "local" consulate in San Francisco to get clarification. My mother is a British citizen-She never applied for US citizenship, but has held a green card for the last 25 years (and for 10 years before that, but there was a period of time in between when we returned to England to live). Does this mean that I can simply ask for the specific form (the Application to be registered as a British Citizen...born before 1983), pay the required fee and would then be considered a dual citizen? (and by extension, if I am a dual citizen of the US and the UK, am I considered a citizen of the EU?)
I assume that your mother is British 'otherwise than by descent' (i.e. that she is British because she herself was born in the UK or was naturalised as a British citizen, not because her father was born in the UK). If so, and you were born between 7 February 1961 and 1 January 1983, then the answer to your question is probably yes.

As well as the form and the fee, there would also be a processing period, and you would have to take an oath of allegiance - not that that is anything to worry about. You would then be a British citizen by descent and, as such, eligible to apply for a British passport. British citizenship would, as you suggest, give you all the travel and residency rights within the EU/EEA and Switzerland and Liechtenstein that go with British citizenship, as well as giving you the right of abode in the UK.

The British Embassy in Washington has an explanatory web page:
http://www.britainusa.com/consular/o...5&Other_ID=478

The Immigration and Nationality Directorate of the Home Office in the UK actually has a page with more information on it, which might clarify some of the issues on the Embassy web page - the Embassy seems to have gone for brevity at the expense of a full explanation of some of the terms - http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind...istration.html

You would have to apply via the relevant British mission in the US, although I don't know whether that would be your nearest consulate or the embassy in Washington.

Anyway, it's something to think about ...
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Old Oct 14th 2004, 12:12 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

    > Right. Not sure I understand this all correctly, and am having less than
    > the best luck reaching my "local" consulate in San Francisco to get
    > clarification. My mother is a British citizen-She never applied for US
    > citizenship, but has held a green card for the last 25 years (and for 10
    > years before that, but there was a period of time in between when we
    > returned to England to live). Does this mean that I can simply ask for
    > the specific form (the Application to be registered as a British
    > Citizen...born before 1983), pay the required fee and would then be
    > considered a dual citizen?

If you meet the qualifications to be registered then you are pretty
much correct.

Note that once you pay the fee, the application has to
be sent to the UK for processing and that takes several months.
Also, I believe that since you are not already a citizen of a country
of which the Queen is sovereign, you will be required to go to the
nearest consulate to take an oath of allegiance.

Don't worry. This oath will have no effect on your US citizenship
unless your intention is to give up your US citizenship. The
State Department will presume that you intend to keep your
US citizenship.

    > (and by extension, if I am a dual citizen of
    > the US and the UK, am I considered a citizen of the EU?

Yes. Once everything is completed you would be sent a
Certificate of Registration as a British Citizen. All citizens of an
EU country are EU citizens. Your certificate will entitle you to
obtain a British passport, if you wish.

Stephen Gallagher

P.S. I was registered in this manner last year and it was very simple.
I didn't have to take any oath because I already had dual citizenship
(US and Canadian). Since the Queen of the UK is also the Queen of
Canada, I didn't have to take any oath.
 
Old Oct 14th 2004, 5:07 pm
  #28  
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Red face Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Originally Posted by Stephen Gallagher
    > Right. Not sure I understand this all correctly, and am having less than
    > the best luck reaching my "local" consulate in San Francisco to get
    > clarification. My mother is a British citizen-She never applied for US
    > citizenship, but has held a green card for the last 25 years (and for 10
    > years before that, but there was a period of time in between when we
    > returned to England to live). Does this mean that I can simply ask for
    > the specific form (the Application to be registered as a British
    > Citizen...born before 1983), pay the required fee and would then be
    > considered a dual citizen?

If you meet the qualifications to be registered then you are pretty
much correct.

Note that once you pay the fee, the application has to
be sent to the UK for processing and that takes several months.
Also, I believe that since you are not already a citizen of a country
of which the Queen is sovereign, you will be required to go to the
nearest consulate to take an oath of allegiance.

Don't worry. This oath will have no effect on your US citizenship
unless your intention is to give up your US citizenship. The
State Department will presume that you intend to keep your
US citizenship.

    > (and by extension, if I am a dual citizen of
    > the US and the UK, am I considered a citizen of the EU?

Yes. Once everything is completed you would be sent a
Certificate of Registration as a British Citizen. All citizens of an
EU country are EU citizens. Your certificate will entitle you to
obtain a British passport, if you wish.

Stephen Gallagher

P.S. I was registered in this manner last year and it was very simple.
I didn't have to take any oath because I already had dual citizenship
(US and Canadian). Since the Queen of the UK is also the Queen of
Canada, I didn't have to take any oath.
This answer leads me to another question or two (sorry!). Do you happen to know what the oath actually consists of? The US government may not revoke my citizenship for taking an oath, but my personal beliefs prevent me from "swearing allegiance" to more than one superior authority, so to speak. Is it simply a promise to avoid bringing harm or acting in a way contrary to the country's interests? Or does it actually involve the words "oath" or "swearing allegiance"? (I know, it's semantics, but it is important!)

the other question is this: I am actually going to be residing in Italy for an extended period of time. If I send in the document, it goes to the UK for processing, would I have to go to the consulate nearest my US address, or would the office in Italy be suitable?
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Old Oct 15th 2004, 12:07 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Originally Posted by poesy70
This answer leads me to another question or two (sorry!). Do you happen to know what the oath actually consists of? The US government may not revoke my citizenship for taking an oath, but my personal beliefs prevent me from "swearing allegiance" to more than one superior authority, so to speak. Is it simply a promise to avoid bringing harm or acting in a way contrary to the country's interests? Or does it actually involve the words "oath" or "swearing allegiance"? (I know, it's semantics, but it is important!)
There are now two parts, for applications made from 1 Jan 2004. An Oath of Allegiance and a Pledge to the United Kingdom. The wording is as follows:

OATH
"I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law."

PLEDGE
"I will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms. I will uphold its democratic values. I will observe its laws faithfully and fulfil my duties and obligations as a British citizen."

Note the following:
- It is possible to take the oath in the form of an Affirmation, if you prefer. You replace the words 'swear by Almighty God' with 'do solemnly and sincerely affirm' (or something like that)
- Those who already bear allegiance, such as those who already hold another form of British nationality (other than British protected persons) and those who are citizens of a country of which the Queen is Head of State, do not need to take the Oath but must take the Pledge
- The oath and pledge can be taken at a British diplomatic office, no need to go to the UK

No-one is going to force you to take the oath, but the bottom line is going to be no oath, no citizenship.


the other question is this: I am actually going to be residing in Italy for an extended period of time. If I send in the document, it goes to the UK for processing, would I have to go to the consulate nearest my US address, or would the office in Italy be suitable?
You can send your application to the British diplomatic authorities in Italy. They will forward it to the Home Office in the UK for consideration.

Visit http://www.fco.gov.uk and that will get you to a link to the British Embassy in Rome.

Once your British citizenship takes effect (and you get a British passport), you will be eligible for EEA residence rights in Italy and the restrictions on your existing visa may no longer apply. You may need to visit the Italian authorities to document your change of status. It might even be possible to apply for Italian citizenship after a number of years residence.

Jeremy
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Old Oct 18th 2004, 6:49 pm
  #30  
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Question Re: Dual citizenship for American citizen?

Originally Posted by JAJ
There are now two parts, for applications made from 1 Jan 2004. An Oath of Allegiance and a Pledge to the United Kingdom. The wording is as follows:

OATH
"I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law."

PLEDGE
"I will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms. I will uphold its democratic values. I will observe its laws faithfully and fulfil my duties and obligations as a British citizen."

Note the following:
- It is possible to take the oath in the form of an Affirmation, if you prefer. You replace the words 'swear by Almighty God' with 'do solemnly and sincerely affirm' (or something like that)
- Those who already bear allegiance, such as those who already hold another form of British nationality (other than British protected persons) and those who are citizens of a country of which the Queen is Head of State, do not need to take the Oath but must take the Pledge
- The oath and pledge can be taken at a British diplomatic office, no need to go to the UK

No-one is going to force you to take the oath, but the bottom line is going to be no oath, no citizenship.




You can send your application to the British diplomatic authorities in Italy. They will forward it to the Home Office in the UK for consideration.

Visit http://www.fco.gov.uk and that will get you to a link to the British Embassy in Rome.

Once your British citizenship takes effect (and you get a British passport), you will be eligible for EEA residence rights in Italy and the restrictions on your existing visa may no longer apply. You may need to visit the Italian authorities to document your change of status. It might even be possible to apply for Italian citizenship after a number of years residence.

Jeremy
Thank you! Follow up query- I believe I can apply for a British passport via mail, but someone else seemed to believe that I would have to go in person to one of the consulates or even to the UK to get my British passport before going back to Italy to prove that I was indeed recognized as a citizen of the EU. This seems more than a bit unlikely to me, as I know that passport renewals can be done via mail (my mother just did hers), but do any of you know for sure?
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