____

I am contemplating whether I can take a domestic flight while being
out of valid immigration status. I have a valid passport and a J-1
visitor visa stamp with DS written on my I-94 but the attached
document authorizing my stay (the old IAP-66 form) has been expired
for a couple of years.

What do the airline personnel nowadays check from my passport? Do they
check the visa stamp, the I-94, and do they ask further papers to
prove my status? I need to show my passport for identification because
my state ID (drivers licence) expired and cannot be renewed while I am
illegally in the country. As far I can see (apart from my immigration
status) there is no reason to select me for some special (above normal
level) security checking. My looks and my passport are northern (or
western) European.

There is a University foreign student services page on the web which
states that they have received information about "internationals being
questioned and required to show immigration documents even when
boarding domestic flights. ... some airlines have questioned
individuals seeking to board a domestic flight and Immigration
officials have been called in to examine their documents." This sounds
particularly alarming to someone in my situation.

These kind of issues have been discussed sometimes in this group and
in other newsgroups. The general tone of the answers to those postings
even after sept-11 has been not to worry. That my foreign passport
would be for identification purposes only and the security checks
would not deal with immigration status in case of domestic US travel.
Can this still be expected to be true in a major international US
airport in September 2004?

shania20

Ive travelled domestically within the usa alot and recently. Alot of airlines have easycheck in whereby you check yourself in at a machine and dont speak to an agent.

Going thru security to the gates they are checking you are the person in the photo id, and the name on the passport matches the ticket.

When boarding the flight at the gate you used to show picture id with your boarding pass. Lately they have been making announcements saying id is not required, only boarding pass.

Judging by all of this, i doubt anyone would note your status as illegal.

Amanda

shania20 <member13636@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...
    > > I am contemplating whether I can take a domestic flight while being
    > > out of valid immigration status. I have a valid passport and a J-1
    > > visitor visa stamp with DS written on my I-94 but the attached
    > > document authorizing my stay (the old IAP-66 form) has been expired
    > > for a couple of years.
    > >
    > > What do the airline personnel nowadays check from my passport? Do they
    > > check the visa stamp, the I-94, and do they ask further papers to
    > > prove my status? I need to show my passport for identification because
    > > my state ID (drivers licence) expired and cannot be renewed while I am
    > > illegally in the country. As far I can see (apart from my immigration
    > > status) there is no reason to select me for some special (above normal
    > > level) security checking. My looks and my passport are northern (or
    > > western) European.
    > >
    > > There is a University foreign student services page on the web which
    > > states that they have received information about "internationals being
    > > questioned and required to show immigration documents even when
    > > boarding domestic flights. ... some airlines have questioned
    > > individuals seeking to board a domestic flight and Immigration
    > > officials have been called in to examine their documents." This sounds
    > > particularly alarming to someone in my situation.
    > >
    > > These kind of issues have been discussed sometimes in this group and
    > > in other newsgroups. The general tone of the answers to those postings
    > > even after sept-11 has been not to worry. That my foreign passport
    > > would be for identification purposes only and the security checks
    > > would not deal with immigration status in case of domestic US travel.
    > > Can this still be expected to be true in a major international US
    > > airport in September 2004?
    >
    > Ive travelled domestically within the usa alot and recently. Alot of
    > airlines have easycheck in whereby you check yourself in at a machine
    > and dont speak to an agent.
    >
    > Going thru security to the gates they are checking you are the person in
    > the photo id, and the name on the passport matches the ticket.
    >
    > When boarding the flight at the gate you used to show picture id with
    > your boarding pass.

    >Lately they have been making announcements saying
    > id is not required, only boarding pass.

I though that only lately, they started checking ID card because of 9/11.


    >
    > Juding by all of this, i doubt anyone would note your status as illegal.

shania20

Hi Amanda

I must admit i was pretty shocked that they are no longer checking ids before boarding the plane. I guess as its domestic they think it doesn't matter??? It hasnt taken long for people to forget the 9/11 planes were also travelling domestically.

The announcement was made at vegas, Sanfrancisco and washington dulles airports, so fairly major airports. It looked to me like it was more of a time issue, gets people boarded quicker.

Monsieur Bah-Oui

[email protected] (____) wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...
    > I am contemplating whether I can take a domestic flight while being
    > out of valid immigration status. I have a valid passport and a J-1
    > visitor visa stamp with DS written on my I-94 but the attached
    > document authorizing my stay (the old IAP-66 form) has been expired
    > for a couple of years.
    >
    > What do the airline personnel nowadays check from my passport? Do they
    > check the visa stamp, the I-94, and do they ask further papers to
    > prove my status? I need to show my passport for identification because
    > my state ID (drivers licence) expired and cannot be renewed while I am
    > illegally in the country. As far I can see (apart from my immigration
    > status) there is no reason to select me for some special (above normal
    > level) security checking. My looks and my passport are northern (or
    > western) European.
    >
    > There is a University foreign student services page on the web which
    > states that they have received information about "internationals being
    > questioned and required to show immigration documents even when
    > boarding domestic flights. ... some airlines have questioned
    > individuals seeking to board a domestic flight and Immigration
    > officials have been called in to examine their documents." This sounds
    > particularly alarming to someone in my situation.
    >
    > These kind of issues have been discussed sometimes in this group and
    > in other newsgroups. The general tone of the answers to those postings
    > even after sept-11 has been not to worry. That my foreign passport
    > would be for identification purposes only and the security checks
    > would not deal with immigration status in case of domestic US travel.
    > Can this still be expected to be true in a major international US
    > airport in September 2004?

You are illegal, and therefore not welcome here! Please pick up your
stuffs and go back to your country!

Amanda

shania20 <member13636@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...

<snip>

    > Hi Amanda
    >
    > I must admit i was pretty shocked that they are no longer checking ids
    > before boarding the plane. I guess as its domestic they think it doesn-
    > 't matter??? It hasnt taken long for people to forget the 9/11 planes
    > were also travelling domestically.
    >
    > The announcement was made at vegas, Sanfrancisco and washington dulles
    > airports, so fairly major airports. It looked to me like it was more of
    > a time issue, gets people boarded quicker.

I don't think it's just the time issue. I think that "they" realize
that checkinmg ID at the last minute, giving hassle to people before
boarding would do squat for security. In fact, it would only cause
racial profilign as it has been in those days afetr 9/11.

Mayo

All airports in the US are checking IDs - don't get confused about
that

before ID's were checked both at boarding at also as you went trough
security - now based on my recent experiences they only do it when you
go through security and at the checking desk where you get the
boarding pass. If you use an automated kisok to get the boarding pass
you need a major credit card or the itinerary number as well as some
additional information (which serves as some sort of ID) - In any case
TSA personnel check IDs wheyou go through security

As far as being illegal you should take care of that, but I believe
that as long as you have a valid US issued ID you can fly, they could
not care less if you are legal or not, if you use a passport then
there is a possibility that someone may check visa dates - but I think
that is very low - all they do is make sure the picture matches your
face and the name on the boarding card matches the ID

I noticed they do ask innocent questions - like "your going to white
plains - where is that?" or call you by your name after you move on to
wish you a good trip - I guess they are trying to catch people who may
be posing as somebody else. I travel out of a small airport frequently
and the people remember you after a few trips

I would not worry, if you have a US drivers license use that and you
will be fine. Just recognize that every time you abuse the system by
staying illegally here you give more amunition to those who want to
make it harder to immigrate and make the lives of all of us more
difficult

shania20

I have to disagree - I think they should definitely be checking photo ids before people board flights, as it would be possible to swop boarding passes and change flights once airside - this is a security issue.

It isnt a hassle to spend a few seconds per passenger checking id, and i would certainly feel alot safer if they continued doing it. As for racial profiling, this is a huge myth. I am a white english lady, who does not look 'foreign' in the slightest, yet I am routinely picked out for extra security. Maybe I should be complaining about being picked for being white?

People should be happy with extra security, as it is your life that is being protected.

I fly alot, and think maybe people have forgotten the lessons which should have been learned from 9/11.

Thorsten

shania20 wrote:

    > I have to disagree - I think they should definitely be checking photo
    > ids before people board flights, as it would be possible to swop boardi-
    > ng passes and change flights once airside - this is a security issue.

I can't quite see how this is relevant to security. Once someone is
cleared at the security check point, what difference does it make which
flight they get on?

BTW Checking the same thing (in this case photo ID) several times
generally does not improve security, on the contrary. If the people
doing the checking know that somebody else is going to check for the
same thing, they are more likely to be sloppy and let sb slip by w/out
being checked.

    > It isnt a hassle to spend a few seconds per passenger checking id, and i
    > would certainly feel alot safer if they continued doing it.

I am glad you feel safer, but sometimes it seems to me that this is the
whole point of some of the new measures. In other words, making people
*feel* more secure almost seems more important than improving security.

Please note that, AFAIK, all 9/11 hijackers had valid IDs, so checking
and re-checking their IDs would have done squat to prevent the hijackings.

> As for rac-
    > ial profiling, this is a huge myth. I am a white english lady, who does
    > not look 'foreign' in the slightest, yet I am routinely picked out for
    > extra security.

You're right on this one. Both my wife and I--we are both of European
decent--are picked sometimes, as well. In addition, these "extra" checks
appear to be very inefficient and easy to circumvent. E.g., on a recent
flight, a four-year-old girl was picked (as was I) to have her carry-on
hand-searched. Her mother joined her in the "special" line, while her
father continued on with the other children. After an agent searched the
little girl's tiny knapsack, she turned to search the mother's bag. The
woman refused to have her bag opened and just explained that she was
only there to accompany her daughter. However, she couldn't prove that
she wasn't subject to the extra search, as her husband had kept her
boarding pass. Bottom line: the inspectors outright believed a
passengers story that she wasn't subject to the search.

Still, it gets worse. The bag of the gentleman right in front of me
apparently set off an alarm after an inspector had swiped a little piece
of cloth through the bag's contents and placed the probe in a machine.
However, by the time the alarm went off the man had already been cleared
to leave the inspection area with his bag. The inspectors were able to
ask him back for another examination only because he hadn't moved very
far from the inspection area. (Another search proved that it had been a
false positive.) However, any real terrorist would have had ample time
to disappear into the supposedly secure area past the checkpoint!

    > People should be happy with extra security, as it is your life that is
    > being protected.

If it were real and not just feel-good security, sure!

Thorsten

shania20

QUOTE=Thorsten]shania20 wrote:

    > I have to disagree - I think they should definitely be checking photo
    > ids before people board flights, as it would be possible to swop boardi-
    > ng passes and change flights once airside - this is a security issue.

I can't quite see how this is relevant to security. Once someone is
cleared at the security check point, what difference does it make which
flight they get on?





It makes a big difference if they have checked in luggage - possibly with an explosive device in it??! It is also vital that the flight manifest is correct when the flight takes off with the correct passengers on board.

BTW Checking the same thing (in this case photo ID) several times
generally does not improve security, on the contrary. If the people
doing the checking know that somebody else is going to check for the
same thing, they are more likely to be sloppy and let sb slip by w/out
being checked.

This is incorrect - each time it is checked is another opportunity to ensure the correct person is travelling, each person who carries out the check is as responsible as the other - there is alot of name highlighting going on which you are not aware of.

    > It isnt a hassle to spend a few seconds per passenger checking id, and i
    > would certainly feel alot safer if they continued doing it.

I am glad you feel safer, but sometimes it seems to me that this is the
whole point of some of the new measures. In other words, making people
*feel* more secure almost seems more important than improving security.

Please note that, AFAIK, all 9/11 hijackers had valid IDs, so checking
and re-checking their IDs would have done squat to prevent the hijackings.

Had the hijackers been known to the authorities before time, they would have been picked out by the id checks - alot more people are under suspicion now and are security checked by staff without them even knowing.

> As for rac-
    > ial profiling, this is a huge myth. I am a white english lady, who does
    > not look 'foreign' in the slightest, yet I am routinely picked out for
    > extra security.

You're right on this one. Both my wife and I--we are both of European
decent--are picked sometimes, as well. In addition, these "extra" checks
appear to be very inefficient and easy to circumvent. E.g., on a recent
flight, a four-year-old girl was picked (as was I) to have her carry-on
hand-searched. Her mother joined her in the "special" line, while her
father continued on with the other children. After an agent searched the
little girl's tiny knapsack, she turned to search the mother's bag. The
woman refused to have her bag opened and just explained that she was
only there to accompany her daughter. However, she couldn't prove that
she wasn't subject to the extra search, as her husband had kept her
boarding pass. Bottom line: the inspectors outright believed a
passengers story that she wasn't subject to the search.

Still, it gets worse. The bag of the gentleman right in front of me
apparently set off an alarm after an inspector had swiped a little piece
of cloth through the bag's contents and placed the probe in a machine.
However, by the time the alarm went off the man had already been cleared
to leave the inspection area with his bag. The inspectors were able to
ask him back for another examination only because he hadn't moved very
far from the inspection area. (Another search proved that it had been a
false positive.) However, any real terrorist would have had ample time
to disappear into the supposedly secure area past the checkpoint!

I cant imagine which airports this incidents occured in - anyone who i have seen not cooperating is given an even more thorough search by security. Saying no is not an option.

    > People should be happy with extra security, as it is your life that is
    > being protected.

If it were real and not just feel-good security, sure!

Maybe if you understood more of the security methods you would believe in it, it is certainly real. What you are seeing is not all that there is - but, glad it makes you feel good!!!

.....................................

Thorsten[/QUOTE]

Thorsten

shania20 wrote:

    >> Checking the same thing (in this case photo ID) several times
    >> generally does not improve security, on the contrary. If the people
    >> doing the checking know that somebody else is going to check for the
    >> same thing, they are more likely to be sloppy and let sb slip by w/out
    >> being checked.

    > This is incorrect - each time it is checked is another opportunity to
    > ensure the correct person is travelling, each person who carries out the
    > check is as responsible as the other

And this is exactly the problem: nobody is solely responsible. It's been
well established that such procedures don't improve security. Everybody
can rest easy because sb else is supposed to pick up the slack.

    >> Please note that, AFAIK, all 9/11 hijackers had valid IDs, so checking
    >> and re-checking their IDs would have done squat to prevent the
    >> hijackings.

    > Had the hijackers been known to the authorities before time, they
    > would have been picked out by the id checks

But a number of hijackers *were* known to the authorities, and some did
set off alarms! Still, nobody cared enough about their little piece of
responsibility to do anything about it.

[Person whose bag set off alarm had already left; another person wasn't
checked solely for declaring that she only accomanied her daughter]

    > I cant imagine which airports this incidents occured in - anyone who i
    > have seen not cooperating is given an even more thorough search by
    > security.

JFK.

> Saying no is not an option.

It's not that the people who weren't properly checked had been openly
hostile; the people supposedly doing the checking were just sloppy. Of
course, such sloppyness could be exploited by terrorists.

    >>>People should be happy with extra security, as it is your life that is
    >>>being protected.

    >> If it were real and not just feel-good security, sure!

    > Maybe if you understood more of the security methods you would believe
    > in it, it is certainly real. What you are seeing is not all that there
    > is - but, glad it makes you feel good!!!

Obviously, it doesn't make me feel good, at all.

Thorsten