RalphJolly

This is one person's experience and backed up by two conversations with different immigrations officers.
If anyone has experience or evidence that this is not the case then I'd like to hear it.

crg

I challenge anyone to find something in the CFR that says the fear/asylum questions must be asked when someone is denied entry under the VWP. It's not uncommon for them ask the questions anyway and they may have asked him, but there is no specific requirement to do so.

The expedited removal process includes a requirement that they ask the fear/asylum questions on the Form I-867B and asking them is required per the regulations. Those regulations do not apply to the VWP.

However, if he claimed to be afraid to return to the UK they are required to entertain that claim and give him access to an abbreviated credible fear review process. He would have been detained, perhaps in that same jail, pending a limited review of the fear claim by an immigration judge.

I'm not sure it would be wise to claim fear from a civilized country that you just willingly departed to 3 weeks earlier, especially when it could involve a lenghtly stay in jail and possibly some hefty legal fees.

As for the claim that he will be delayed each time for the rest of his life, I don't believe that to be 100% true. If he ends up with a green card, or a US passport, they will probably stop bothering him each and every time.

Sally Redux

Willie Hamilton lived in the UK with no problems.

Fair play to you if you could get asylum on such a ludicrous basis. Maybe the 5 cases did.

Slight problem with the OP having stated he had a return ticket to the UK and intended to go back after marriage, or was the Queen holding him under duress at the time?

Rete

I do understand, but you don't apparently. There is no technical violation and you were to be held until you could broad the next plane back to the UK. Since there were none that night and apparently no accommodations for you for the night at the airport, you had to be held in custody (not arrest) until your flight was arrive to be boarded. As such the only place they could take you was to the local jail and transportation to the local jail must be done in handcuffs apparently.

As a traveler it is up to you to know the laws governing entry into the foreign country you are going to visit. They were not concerned that you were going to be taking money from US Citizens, etc. but rather that you were going to violate the VWP by marrying and remaining in the US to adjust status. The judgment was theirs to call and they did so negatively in your case.

meauxna

If he returns again, it will be with a visa, so secondary inspection is not nearly what you describe.

Also, there are thousands (literally) of experiences posted by immigrant/spouse and fiance(e) visa applicants who had been denied entry on the VWP at some point, who report no problem with their visa application as a result of the denied entry.

I appreciate the conservative stance about it, but it's not all DOOM for the OP immigrating on a family based visa.

Lissbovavd

Rete.
You are of course technically correct here, but, come on, give this guy a break...
Unless he is an immigration lawyer on the side or a fairly long-time member of one of the immigration forums on the net, it would frankly be rather difficult for him to be aware of the unwritten rules pertaining to repeated VWP entries to the US.
Now the OP understandably might be reluctant to return to the US anytime soon, but hopefully his future USC wife might contemplate settling in the UK
A lack of knowledge regarding the workings of the US immigration system probably applies to most VWP visitors to the US.

meauxna

Easiest/quickest way to be married and living in the US: K-1 Fiance Visa (see wiki)

ILR from the 80s? No longer valid.
Note that the same sorts of entry restrictions apply to her regarding visits US-->UK. There have been many stories of US citizens detained and removed the way you were.
However, a successful tourist admission to the UK is valid for 6 months visit.

Lissbovavd

Yes, in a sense it is - in this context - somewhat unfortunate that the OP is a UKC, since the UK is known to be almost as stringent as the US when it comes to dealing with non-EU visitors at the UK POE´s.

It is a known fact that e.g. US/Canadian visitors very rarely encounter any problems to speak of when travelling to the Schengen group of countries within the European Union, i.e. most of the "old" EU countries with the UK as a notable exception.

meauxna

Well, it depends on how you feel about being limited to visits of 90 days in, with a clearly stated '90 days out' policy before returning... for the large number of countries in the Schengen Zone!
Still, I personally never got fined, and I only ever turned up one experience posted online where a USC was fined on the way out.

lisa67

Like it's been said in post #35, he'd be entering on a visa and therefore it would be highly unlikely that he'd be taken and questioned every time he enters for the rest of his life.
As you say, that is just one person's experience.

Octang Frye

So, uksalesmanager, what happened to your stuff? Your luggage?
Did you get it back? I assume you had access to some of it because you said you changed clothes.

RalphJolly

In response to the earlier posts -once you're flagged -you're flagged.
It doesn't matter whether you've got a visa since you got flagged, or you've got a green card. It still appears on the system, and the immigration officials will want to know why. You have to explain it to them, and with any luck this will be a short conversation to a pleasant person and not too much of a delay. But they won't talk to you about this at the entrance, but instead in the detention area, in their own good time.
I understand that you wouldn't think this is the case, after all the vetting that is done to get a visa/ green card. You would think that once you got a green card or visa that the slate would be wiped clean -but my experience is that this is not the case and two immigration officials confirmed this to me.
If anyone has experience or evidence thast this is not true then please post it.

meauxna

RalphJolly, just think of it this way: If the person was denied entry as an intending immigrant without the correct visa, and they return WITH the correct immigrant visa, why would the previous crossing be an issue.

I don't deny that you learned what you learned, I just wonder if it's related to the same sort of refusal. Now, some people with criminal records or other admissibility issues, who had those issues handled sufficiently to get a visa (non or immigrant) have reported ongoing questioning (occasionally) at a border.. one person had this continue even after naturalization.

So I guess I would just say, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Do you have a personal experience with this that convinces you so strongly?

Desperate Dan

I second this - it sounds like an unpleasant and traumatising experience. I'm guessing that you feel unfairly treated, given that your intention was to legitimately visit the US and not to immigrate. I know I would and could easily imagine myself getting denied entry and being deported (fortunately, it never happened - in no small part to advice on this forum!). As the other posters have variously pointed out, the emphasis on entering the US seems to be to demonstrate that you do not have the intention to immigrate i.e. you are assumed to be guilty. Generally, having property/assets and a job to go back to are pretty solid ways of showing this. Obviously, the fact that you had only been there 3 weeks previously was something of a red flag + your candour in the secondary interview - the disclosure of having a US fiancée + the intention to marry (regardless of demonstrating awareness of proper immigration procedures). From their perspective, you obviously represented an immigration threat. And I think, from what I've read, there seems to be a fair number of people who do enter the US on the VWP, marry and then do an adjustment of status (and so avoid being separated from their partners for x number of months) - these actions then affect others, like yourself, who are intending to do things by the book.

As for options, one that hasn't been suggested is to fly to Mexico and take your chances with the minutemen. Not, perhaps, something that I would personally opt for or, indeed, recommend but it seems like plenty of others do. Just don't end up in Arizona.

Good luck.

meauxna

Plenty of other UK citizen professionals with USC fiancees? Really?

Look, the guy has a Golden Ticket, he just needs to use it. Suggesting (it doesn't really matter if you 'recommend' it or not, does it?) that someone jump the border in the desert seems a little ridiculous to me.
The Canadian land border is much easier to cross.