D Visa (Crew)

Old Jun 22nd 2005, 1:01 am
  #1  
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Default D Visa (Crew)

I am on an H4 and have been offered a position on a private jet and need a D visa for coming into the USA.

How will this affect my H4, bearing in mind that I will be coming from outside the US and leaving the US after the trip is complete. I would then be returning to the US on a civilian flight as a passenger on my H4 visa.

Any ideas peeps?

Cheers

Diggers
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 2:32 am
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by dignity
I am on an H4 and have been offered a position on a private jet and need a D visa for coming into the USA.

How will this affect my H4, bearing in mind that I will be coming from outside the US and leaving the US after the trip is complete. I would then be returning to the US on a civilian flight as a passenger on my H4 visa.

Any ideas peeps?

Cheers

Diggers

If you're on an H4, you shouldn't be working at all!!!
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 3:11 am
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by dignity

How will this affect my H4, bearing in mind that I will be coming from outside the US and leaving the US after the trip is complete. I would then be returning to the US on a civilian flight as a passenger on my H4 visa.
It's one or the other, working on a D visa would invalidate the H4 visa surely...
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 3:16 am
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by fatbrit
If you're on an H4, you shouldn't be working at all!!!
Fatbrit,

Read the post again! Jeez!

I am well aware of what I can and can't do on an H4 and have just had it renewed.

I cannot work IN THE USA ON AN H4 VISA!!!!!!!! Well done!!!

I am looking for sensible answers to my question.

I can do what the hell I like in the UK. If I am recruited from the UK for the purpose of crewing an aircraft and require a D1 Crew Visa ( this visa means I will be entering the US on a vessel and leaving on the same vessel, NOT WORKING in the US) will it affect my H4???

Can anyone offer an answer?

Thank you.
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 3:32 am
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by dignity
I can do what the hell I like in the UK. If I am recruited from the UK for the purpose of crewing an aircraft and require a D1 Crew Visa ( this visa means I will be entering the US on a vessel and leaving on the same vessel, NOT WORKING in the US) will it affect my H4???
You can do what you like, but any form of work will invalidate the H4...a reason why people can't do tele commute type jobs, or consult online...
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 3:52 am
  #6  
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Bob wrote on 06/21/05 20:32:

    >>Fatbrit,
    >>Read the post again! Jeez!
    >>I am well aware of what I can and can't do on an H4 and have just had
    >>it renewed.
    >>I cannot work IN THE USA ON AN H4 VISA!!!!!!!! Well done!!!
    >>I am looking for sensible answers to my question.
    >>I can do what the hell I like in the UK. If I am recruited from the UK
    >>for the purpose of crewing an aircraft and require a D1 Crew Visa (
    >>this visa means I will be entering the US on a vessel and leaving on
    >>the same vessel, NOT WORKING in the US) will it affect my H4???
    >>Can anyone offer an answer?
    >>Thank you.
    >
    >
    > You can do what you like, but any form of work will invalidate the
    > H4...a reason why people can't do tele commute type jobs, or
    > consult online...

If you answer such questions, it would help to understand the difference between
a visa and a status...
Of course, working while in H4 *status* would mean that the person would be
violating that status, i.e., being out of status.
However, nothing prevents that person to enter using another *visa*, such as the
D visa, work while in D *status*, leave the country, and then use the H4 *visa*
to enter again in H4 *status.*
Perfectly legal. Not a problem whatsoever.

-Joe
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For reliable advice, consult a competent immigration attorney.
 
Old Jun 22nd 2005, 3:58 am
  #7  
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Bob wrote on 06/21/05 20:11:

    >>I am on an H4 and have been offered a position on a private jet and
    >>need a D visa for coming into the USA.
    >>How will this affect my H4, bearing in mind that I will be coming from
    >>outside the US and leaving the US after the trip is complete. I would
    >>then be returning to the US on a civilian flight as a passenger on my
    >>H4 visa.
    >>Any ideas peeps?
    >>Cheers
    >>Diggers
    >
    >
    > It's one or the other, working on a D visa would invalidate the H4
    > visa surely...
    >


No it won't, because it is not possible to work on a visa. The *status* in the
US determines what a person is allowed to do. A person by definition only has a
status while in the US. A visa is *only* an entry document and completely
irrelevant once a person is in the US.
A person can hold multiple different visas just fine, but only one visa is used
for entry into a particular status.
Nothing prevents somebody who holds both an H4 and a D visa to use either one
when applying for entry. The person then would get admitted into the appropriate
status. If that status is D, the person can of course work as a crew person. The
person can then leave and enter again using the H4 visa. No problem whatsoever.

-Joe
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For reliable advice, consult a competent immigration attorney.
 
Old Jun 22nd 2005, 4:31 am
  #8  
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by dignity
Fatbrit,

Read the post again! Jeez!

I am well aware of what I can and can't do on an H4 and have just had it renewed.

I cannot work IN THE USA ON AN H4 VISA!!!!!!!! Well done!!!

I am looking for sensible answers to my question.

I can do what the hell I like in the UK. If I am recruited from the UK for the purpose of crewing an aircraft and require a D1 Crew Visa ( this visa means I will be entering the US on a vessel and leaving on the same vessel, NOT WORKING in the US) will it affect my H4???

Can anyone offer an answer?

Thank you.
There was another guy recently in the USA forums looking for similar loopholes. He also took quite an attitude when not getting the answer he wanted to hear. Are you by any chance related?
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 5:11 am
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by fatbrit
There was another guy recently in the USA forums looking for similar loopholes. He also took quite an attitude when not getting the answer he wanted to hear. Are you by any chance related?
Completely fifferent surely, his wife wanted to work from wihin the US for a UK company.

The OP has no intent of working whilst in the US.

I know nothing of the D visa and I doubt if many here do.

For example why do you need a D visa if you have another perfectly valid Visa to enter the US?
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 6:02 am
  #10  
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Read Joe's, as usual, excellent comments. I will just offer some
additional insights.

dignity wrote:
    | I am on an H4 and have been offered a position on a private jet and need
    | a D visa for coming into the USA.

It is certainly a good idea to get the D visa. But strictly speaking, it
may not be necessary. Since you would be working only before reaching
the USA, you should be able to use the H-4 to actually enter the USA,
especially if you will be joining your spouse during your stay in the USA.

Of course, if things like cabin cleaning or so are part of your duties,
then the H-4 is not an option for you.

    | How will this affect my H4, bearing in mind that I will be coming
    | from outside the US and leaving the US after the trip is complete. I
    | would then be returning to the US on a civilian flight as a passenger
    | on my H4 visa.

No problem at all. As Joe already pointed out, you can have multiple
different visas in your passport at the same time. You just can't have
more than one status. So you would decide whether to use the H-4 or the
D visa every time you set foot on US soil.

Do be aware that if your plans change and you won't leave the USA again,
it would be difficult or impossible for you to change from D to H-4. You
would have to leave the USA at your own expense, and return with the H-4
visa.

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relying on usenet newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under
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My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for Spam protection.
See my Web site for information on how to contact me.

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http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 10:38 am
  #11  
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by Boiler
Completely fifferent surely, his wife wanted to work from wihin the US for a UK company.

The OP has no intent of working whilst in the US.

I know nothing of the D visa and I doubt if many here do.

For example why do you need a D visa if you have another perfectly valid Visa to enter the US?
They often issue a combination C1/D visas. A D visa is for working as a crewmember while enroute to the US. A D1 is for departing on the same vessel/carrier as the one they arrive on. A D2 is for departing on a different vessel/carrier. If someone joins a ship/aircraft without the D classification then they are prevented as working as a crewmember on the trip out. The C1 is for entering for the purpose of transiting to a 3rd country so if a crewmember enters from the UK and is then working on the way out to the UK then they are a D because there is no 3rd country.

If the crewmember were to be admitted on their B1/B2 or H4 visa they can only depart as a passenger, and cannot work on the way out. The officer would ask what capacity they plan to be in when they depart. If the answer is passenger then they'd be admitted as a B or an H. If they plan to be serving drinks on the way out or flying the plane then they would be a C-1/D.
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 11:54 am
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by crg14624
They often issue a combination C1/D visas. A D visa is for working as a crewmember while enroute to the US. A D1 is for departing on the same vessel/carrier as the one they arrive on. A D2 is for departing on a different vessel/carrier. If someone joins a ship/aircraft without the D classification then they are prevented as working as a crewmember on the trip out. The C1 is for entering for the purpose of transiting to a 3rd country so if a crewmember enters from the UK and is then working on the way out to the UK then they are a D because there is no 3rd country.

If the crewmember were to be admitted on their B1/B2 or H4 visa they can only depart as a passenger, and cannot work on the way out. The officer would ask what capacity they plan to be in when they depart. If the answer is passenger then they'd be admitted as a B or an H. If they plan to be serving drinks on the way out or flying the plane then they would be a C-1/D.

CRG14624:

Thank you so much for your answer. This is a big help. So, realistically I could not bother about the D visa if I was listed as a pax on the aircraft.

Ok, thanks I will have a look at the issue some more.

FatBrit: It seems to me that you decided to provide an answer to something you don't know much about. No probs. I know only a little but understand the issue a little better than you. No, I am no relation to the other person you mentioned, but like him I have NO INTENTION of working IN THE US on my current visa and have not done for three years. My "industry" means that I do work outside the US.

Have a nice day now!
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 1:35 pm
  #13  
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Sorry, but could very well see USCIS interpreting it very differently down the road. CRG has given you the definitive answer of what the POE officer will do, but this can be at odds with the actions of USCIS. I think you'll find it difficult to receive a definitive answer from either them or even an immigration lawyer unless they have specific knowledge of precedence in this area of immigration law. It might well be worth asking both of these however if you and your spouse intend to convert to permanent residence status. I still believe you are opening yourself up to a high degree of risk regarding your immigration status.
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 3:12 pm
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by crg14624
If the crewmember were to be admitted on their B1/B2 or H4 visa they can only depart as a passenger, and cannot work on the way out. The officer would ask what capacity they plan to be in when they depart. If the answer is passenger then they'd be admitted as a B or an H. If they plan to be serving drinks on the way out or flying the plane then they would be a C-1/D.
Is this because the B/H4 does not give them work privleges and the C-1/D does?

I was trying to think through the logic, not always a good idea, but perhaps you need work permission that a C-1/D may give you until you clear US airspace?
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Old Jun 22nd 2005, 11:56 pm
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Default Re: D Visa (Crew)

Originally Posted by Boiler
Is this because the B/H4 does not give them work privleges and the C-1/D does?

I was trying to think through the logic, not always a good idea, but perhaps you need work permission that a C-1/D may give you until you clear US airspace?
The problem is that H can have dual intent, but no work authorization. A C1/D can't have immigrant intent. Once an I-485 is filed, a crewmember would need an I-512 where an H4 may not need one. I'd say the airline's legal department would have seen this type of thing before and could offer some advice.
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