contractor

Can anyone help? I met a South African surfer and need to know a bit more about citizenship.
I am a British Citizen living in the UK.

My boyfriend is a South African and entered the UK on a working holiday visa on 13.12.2003.

We intend to get married next year. He will then be allowed to stay in the UK and to work for two years at first. Near the end of this time, if we are still married and still intend to live together, he may apply to stay in the UK permanently.


My question is at which point would he be able to apply for British citizenship?



Would he comply with the 3 year residence rule on 13.12.2006, 3 years after he entered the UK?

Would he comply with the 3 year residence rule, 3 years after we get married?

Would he comply with the 3 year residence rule, 3 years after he gets the permission to stay in the UK permanently?.



I cannot find information on the internet that answers this question. I am an IT consultant and work short contracts all over the world. The process of applying for visas for him every time I go to work in Europe is going to get laborious until we can get him citizen ship. I hope you can help, many thanks.

JAJ

Did you look at the Home Office guide to naturalisation which you can find at http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk

and specifically:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind...on_forms.html?


He needs to have indefinite leave to remain when he applies, but other than that any *legal* residence will count towards the 3 year residence requirement. It does not need to be clocked up after obtaining ILR (for those married to British citizens).

As far as I'm aware he needs to get permission fromn the South African authorities to naturalise in the UK (and use a British passport) otherwise he's at risk of losing his South African citizenship when he becomes British. As far as I know it's nor normally a problem to get this permission but it does involve a fee.

If he's going to be spending a lot of time outside the UK, he may have problems meeting the 3 year residence requirement though.

Jeremy

contractor

Thanks for the advice. So it can be sooner than later, that is good news. 3 years from his entry into the UK. We will be able to meet the residency rule. That is why I am looking into it now. If we plan our next 3 years now, then we will make sure he is never outside the country for more than 90 days a year.

It's such a pain that spouses of UK citizens who work in Eurpoe have to get the Schelgen visas and family permits all the time. Citizenship is the only long term answer I can think of.

I will loook into the 'permission' form the SOuth African Gov.

contractor

Would you advice using a service like workpermit.com who claim they can turn around the application for a permanent residence for a spouse in 1 day. What would be the normal waiting time?

And then after that we woudl have to wait about 7.6 months for the citizenship application to be processed, right?

bsmith1

Watch out for companies like that as there has just being a big bust of them operating illegally and issuing fake visa ect! So before you use anyone check them out.

Note that time spent on the 2yr working holiday visa WILL not count toward naturalisation, and the 3 year time spent in the UK will only start when he comes off this Visa.
Yes its Three years before he would be able to apply for UK citizenship and also watch out for the 270 day rule whereby if he has been out of the country for more than 270 days he would have to wait until the time is made up.
Yes it is approx 7 months wait to apply for citizenship and also now he would have to attend a ceremony (which is a good thing- you will see as you work through the process why I say that).

it is a mission and it is fairly straight foward and will not cost you too much money overall, but it does involve a bit of legwork on both of your parts.

he doesn't HAVE to have permission from the SA authorites to retain his SA citizenship but it might be nice in the future. This exemption is called section 9.

good luck

JAJ

That is not correct. Time on the working holiday visa *will* count - as does any kind of *legal* residence in the UK.

From the Home Office guidelines, quoted verbatim:

------
The residential requirements are that:

a. the person applying was in the United Kingdom (see Note 3) at the beginning of the three-year period that ended on the date the application is received;

b. on the date the application is received, the applicant's stay in the United Kingdom is not subject to any time limit under the immigration laws (see Note 5);

c. in the three-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 270 days (see Note 4);

d. in the last 12 months of that three-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 90 days; and

e. he or she was not, at any time in that three-year period, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws.
-----

There is nothing in these rules that disqualifies time on a working holiday visa.



The Home Office have discretion to permit absences greater than 270 days, in the circumstances of the case. They will usually exercise discretion on absences up to 300 days without fuss, and will usually consider absences up to 540 days depending on the circumstances (such as an extensive need to travel on business).

They normally expect absences in the 12 months before application not to exceed 90 days.

There is also the *unwaivable* requirement to have been physically in the UK on the exact day three years prior to the Home Office receiving your application.

Processing times may have changed by 2006.



He *does* have to get permission in advance.

From the website of the SA Embassy in Paris:
http://www.afriquesud.net/html/body_civicaffair.htm

"An application to retain South African citizenship must be made BEFORE applicants apply for any other nationality or citizenship."

The exemption is section 9, but the loss of citizenship provision is section 6.
Another reference on the subject from an official source:
http://www.home-affairs.gov.za/sa_citizenship.asp

Jeremy

contractor

Well I guess I have opened a can of worms !! Jaj I tend to side with you.
bsmith where are you getting your info from?

bsmith1

personal experience! Mine is sorted now and well ok JAJ seems to have the info nailed! I waited mega long and kung fu'd a lot of issues and always got different answers from the home office when I spoke to them on getting all our stuff/naturalisation sorted out.
anyway good luck. I have only just discovered the internet!

contractor

A big thanks to you both(Jaj and bsmith1) for your advice and encouragement. I think all will go smoothly in the end.

DarrenD

Interesting question. Ive been through this (my wife is from South Africa). Certainly the line fed out by the home office is 3 yrs from marriage, but if you look at the naturalisation guide (AN (NEW)), the following text confirms JAJ position.

You should have been free from immigration time restrictions during the last 12 months of this period. Usually there is a stamp or sticker in your passport saying that you have indefinite leave to enter or remain or no time limit. If you are married to a British citizen you only need to be free from immigration restrictions on the day you apply.

As a WHV is for max 2 yrs, then the 3rd year must be on a spouse type visa without restrictions.

The only issue with this is that at the end of the WHV you will either need to be married and get a spouse visa for him, or a fiance visa. When we talked to home office, they said they wanted us to get married outside the uk and apply for spouse visa. This suited us anyway, but cant really see a problem if you are married in the uk though.

If you want some info on dual citizenship, please let me know.

Briefly, the process is

1) Apply to IND Liverpool for a letter saying you DONT have UK citizenship
2) Apply for SA house for permission to hold dual citizenship
3) Apply for UK Citizenship
4) Apply to SA house for permission to hold dual passports
5) Apply for UK passport

more info is at http://www.southafricahouse.com

rgds