HunterGreen

I need some serious input on this one (again), please.

Previously, on HG's immigration adventures:
Hubby (USC) is kidlet's legal, official father - is listed on birth certificate and everything. But, he is not her biological parent, so the child did not derive citizenship through him.
A non-bio-father is in the NL (Netherlands) allowed to acknowledge paternity/legitimate a child if the child doesn't have a legal father. Men who wish to establish a family relationship with a child (like a step father) do not need to adopt in such cases - acknowledgment suffices. A shortcut, if you wish to call it that. Which is what we did.
After this procedure, the relationship between the man and a child in this (our) situation, a bio-child and an adopted child are all the same under law.
Before we were able to do this procedure, NL authorities had to make sure this would also be legal under US law, which it was. So hubby is kidlet's father under both US and NL law.

Now when filing for mine and kidlet's IV's at the consulate, they were confused (I'm guessing due to this being 'conflict of laws') and I tried to explain. They didn't hear me out and demanded proof of sole custody (which thank goodness I was able to get from the custody register before they added my husband's name to it). I mailed it to them and didn't hear about it later. We both received or IV's in June.

Since I don't need our child to be a USC right away (if so than that's fine, but it was never a goal) I didn't get into the citizenship issue with the consulate.

BUT.

I went to get a print-out of her personal information from city hall. This lists amongst other things parental info, address info, AND citizenship info. Seems that kidlet is listed as a dual Dutch-American citizen.

So, in the eyes of The Netherlands we have a little AmeriDutchy on our hands. But, at the consulate I got the impression that she wasn't eligible for US citizenship, and then later on we never discussed it.

What I need to know is what the heck to do now. Who do I turn to to verify what the US thinks - the consulate? The people at inspection when we enter the US? USCIS once in the US? A lawyer (Family? Immigrations?)? Congress representative? President Bush? Someone please point me in the right direction here...., the last thing we need is a misrepresentation lawsuit on our hands.

Elaine

ian-mstm

Why not apply for kidlet's US passport? If there's a problem, they'll let you know and you can contact an attorney at that point. I don't think you need to make too much of the issue just now.

Ian

HunterGreen

You mean apply for one once we're in the US, right?

Trust me, the last thing I want is to make an issue... but heck I don't want to end up in handcuffs either. Unless they're furry. Uhm, never mind.

I'm fine with just letting this sit until I naturalize (not eligible for another three years of course), at which point the kid would definitely be a USC, but I am probably hypersensitive to anything that could possibly reek of a hint of a fraction of illegality.

Thanks, Ian.

Elaine

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Conflicts is an interesting subject which is taught in the most boring fashion in law school. Sigh.

I'm not sure, but I think upon kidlet's immigration, he automatically naturalized. It is something I would have to research if you were my client -- which you are not.

Again -- interesting. BTW, I've had several cases where ConOffs have screwed up conflicts issues -- usually in applying divorce choice of law principals to marriage [which, admittedly, is easy to do].

meauxna

'Lainey, I always understood it the way MrF said.. she would naturalize automagically at entry as the daughter of a USC (hub).

Just means that City Hall jumped the gun


I am in no way dismissing this.. you already know you're going to have to follow up more
xomo

HunterGreen

Thanks Mr. F and Mo.

The problem with applying for a passport for her though would be that there is no category we can check on the forms (of course I already looked at those). It's either 'by birth' or 'full and final adoption'.

Anyway.... Mr. F saying ''It is something I would have to research if you were my client'' is for me a cue to have this research done by an immigrations attorney once we're in the US. After we've settled in and have life as a family under control again, that is.

I love the word automagically (although I didn't notice it the first time(s) I read it ).

Elaine

Jonathan McNeil Wong

HunterGreen wrote:
    > I need some serious input on this one (again), please.
    >
    > Previously, on HG's immigration adventures:
    > Hubby (USC) is kidlet's legal, official father - is listed on birth
    > certificate and everything. But, he is not her biological parent, so the
    > child did not derive citizenship through him.
    > A non-bio-father is in the NL (Netherlands) allowed to acknowledge
    > paternity/legitimate a child if the child doesn't have a legal father.
    > Men who wish to establish a family relationship with a child (like a
    > step father) do not need to adopt in such cases - acknowledgment
    > suffices. A shortcut, if you wish to call it that. Which is what we did.
    > After this procedure, the relationship between the man and a child in
    > this (our) situation, a bio-child and an adopted child are all the same
    > under law.
    > Before we were able to do this procedure, NL authorities had to make
    > sure this would also be legal under US law, which it was. So hubby is
    > kidlet's father under both US and NL law.
    >
    > Now when filing for mine and kidlet's IV's at the consulate, they were
    > confused (I'm guessing due to this being 'conflict of laws') and I tried
    > to explain. They didn't hear me out and demanded proof of sole custody
    > (which thank goodness I was able to get from the custody register before
    > they added my husband's name to it). I mailed it to them and didn't hear
    > about it later. We both received or IV's in June.
    >
    > Since I don't need our child to be a USC right away (if so than that's
    > fine, but it was never a goal) I didn't get into the citizenship issue
    > with the consulate.
    >
    > BUT.
    >
    > I went to get a print-out of her personal information from city hall.
    > This lists amongst other things parental info, address info, AND
    > citizenship info. Seems that kidlet is listed as a dual Dutch-
    > American citizen.
    >
    > So, in the eyes of The Netherlands we have a little AmeriDutchy on our
    > hands. But, at the consulate I got the impression that she wasn't
    > eligible for US citizenship, and then later on we never discussed it.
    >
    > What I need to know is what the heck to do now. Who do I turn to to
    > verify what the US thinks - the consulate? The people at inspection when
    > we enter the US? USCIS once in the US? A lawyer (Family? Immigrations?)?
    > Congress representative? President Bush? Someone please point me in the
    > right direction here...., the last thing we need is a misrepresentation
    > lawsuit on our hands.
    >
    > :( Elaine
    >

???

If kidlet is child of non-bio father under Dutch law then I should think
that U.S. immigration law must recognize that relationship. (We would
call kidlet a "legitimated" child.) The corollary would be that
kidlet's bio-father could not derive any immigration benefits from kidlet.

Consult an immigration lawyer about the citizenship issue, because your
post does not include enough information.

--
Above intended as general commentary, not specific legal
advice. Your mileage may vary.

================================================== =============
Jonathan McNeil Wong Voice: 510-451-0544
Donahue Gallagher Woods LLP Facsimile: 510-832-1486
P.O. Box 12979 URL: http://www.donahue.com
Oakland, CA 94604-2979 E-mail: [email protected]
================================================== =============

HunterGreen

Update:

I am meeting up with an AILA-referred attorney in Akron this coming Friday to try and figure out the citizenship issue. He sounded... how do I describe it... interested? Excited? Ready to tackle it?
A very friendly gentleman anyway, and I'm curious to find out where this is gonna go.

Elaine

Rete

Look forward to the hearing the results of your meeting. It does sound challenging which is the life blood of many attorneys ... something other than the cut and dried to play with.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Five AILA attorneys in Akron and one is female. I have to say I don't know any of them. It can be a fun issue for an attorney.

Folinskyinla

Jonathan:

Back in the mid-90's I took over a file from a colleague wh had been appointed to the bench. All I did was to receive the final BIA decision and clients simply gave up.

Man was Jamaican who had a girlfriend. Girlfriend gets pregnant, he supports her through the pregnancy, and when the child is born, she goes -- "He's yours, I'm out of here." This had been 20 years previously. Mom drops out of the picture completely.

Man has his grandparents raise "his" son. Man immigrates to US on an IV. Later naturalizes. He always held the kid out as his own. He always financially supported the kid. He would visit the kid on trips to Jamaica.

The kid grows up having his "father" in his life even though Dad was living in the United States.

When kid turns 18, Dad files an I-130. It is approved, no problem. Kingston processes IV, no problem. Kid lands at MIA and then a BIG problem -- they defer inspection to Los Angeles with an order to get blood tests. Knowing that the kid is Dad's and Dad is kid's father, they nonchalantly take the blood tests.

Oops, kid and dad had been operating under mistaken set of facts. It seems that mummykins had not one, but at least two boyfriends she was intimate with at the same time.

I think the ultimate result was so wrong it isn't funny. The definitions for legitimation allow for choice of one of two laws -- where dad lives and where the kid was born. I think that under Kaliski, the kid was Dad's kid under California law, biology be damned. Sad case.

[For the lay people reading this -- from memory -- Kaliski involved a situation where kid was born out of wedlock in Yugoslavia. Although Dad "acknowledged" the kid, he remained "illegitimate" under Yugoslav law. However, the acknowledgment was a "legitimating act" under California law. In the I-130, Dad sought to rely on California law. However, Dad had not moved to California until the kid was over 18. Former INS held that the last "act" for the application of California law, taking up residence in California, had to have taken place before the kid's 18th birthday. The court disagreeed.

HunterGreen

Well, I guess it's a good attorney, because after he read my story (I had it written down, much easier to explain everything) he said 'the only thing I'm gonna be able to tell you today is that I don't have an answer for you'. He was very friendly, asked and wrote down some more details, and said to let him know if we want him to dig into this. We're not sure if we can, because we have to watch our finances. I'll let y'all know when we decide what to do and what the outcome is.

Elaine

CaliforniaBride

Any news on this Hunter?

HunterGreen

Nope. This is really on the back burner for us right now, due to family circumstances. I will remember to update here though, but it may not be for a while.

Elaine

CaliforniaBride

Best of luck with it Elaine.