materialcontroller

Maybe the actual arrest itself won't cause problems. But fatbrit mentioned the health related grounds of inadmissibility earlier. Remember that list I gave you a link to? The third item on that list is:

Now what that means is that you, by virtue of having an arrest for causing a disturbance while intoxicated, could potentially be accused of being an alcoholic. If they believe you're likely to get pissed and cause another disturbance, they could refuse you entry to the USA and require you to spend a lot of time and money on medical appointments to satisfy them enough to issue a visa in future.

It's a long shot, but it could happen. And all this time you've been so busy worrying about the criminal aspect that you've overlooked the other ways they could potentially screw you over.

GarethThomason673

Yet another thing for me to worry about!

Ahhh well. If only they could see the sheer amount of alcohol at my disposal in my house and the fact that my liver sensibly avoided all the drunken Xmas parties etc...

The US are making me feel like a dangerous criminal who should be treated for a mental disorder. Long live the UK's no-nonsense approach to policing and arresting anybody!! I could also tell them about the time I was in cancun and was walking down the road with my partner and got stopped by the police demanding all my money or I would be put in prison for sweet nothing, that really would make me a criminal!!

lansbury

The thing that gets me in all this, is since when did drunk and disorderly become a recordable offence that a conviction for was listed on the PNC.

I must have arrested countless people for D&D, in the days when they went to court. Never did a CRO74, never did a result sheet for CRO never ever saw a D&D listed on a PNC disposal history. Last time I accessed the PNC was November 2006. So when did it all change. When did they start fingerprinting people for a D&D or any other non recordable offence.

materialcontroller

Isn't everyone who is arrested fingerprinted and a DNA sample taken?

GarethThomason673

Ian.

This is from wikipedia:

Penalty notices for disorder

Issued under Section 1-11 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 [3] for public disorder offences and costing £50 for 'lower-tier' offences or £80 for 'higher-tier' offences, these can only be issued to people aged 16 or over. There are 23 offences for which a notice can be issued, such as being drunk and disorderly in a public place, selling alcohol to a minor (under 18), threatening behaviour or language and "behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to others". Penalty notices can also be issued for minor shop thefts and minor criminal damage and in January 2009 the offence of possession of cannabis was added to the scheme. Recipients have 21 days to pay the notice or request a court hearing. If a penalty notice is not paid after 21 days then the outstanding amount is increased by 50% and if it is still unpaid the fine is lodged at the local magistrates' court just as if the matter was an unpaid court fine. This is where PNDs and FPNs vary if they are not paid: the former results in an unpaid fine being lodged and the latter results in the recipient being summoned to court to answer for the original offence.

When paying penalty notices for disorder (PNDs), no admission of guilt is required. Paying the PND involves neither an official finding nor an acceptance of guilt and discharges all liability to conviction for the offence. PNDs for recordable offences are recorded on the Police National Computer however and may be disclosed on an Enhanced Criminal Records Disclosure issued by the Criminal Records Bureau, if it is concluded that the behaviour leading to the PND was relevant to the matter at hand, for example the applicant’s suitability to work with children. However, the mere fact that a PND has been issued would not make it relevant.

PNDs are generally issued to first-time offenders with no previous record. PNDs do not constitute a criminal record; they are non-conviction information and treated as intelligence.

lansbury

As I said all during my service drunk and disorderly was not a recordable offence.

So if you were told your ticket would be entered on the PNC that leads me to two possible conclusions. 1) It is for a recordable offence, and not D&D or 2) You were incorrectly informed. Unless as I said since I retired at the end of 2006, D&D has become recordable, but I can't find anything to say it has.

lansbury

When I was a uniform officer no they were not. You only got fingerprinted etc for a recordable offence.

As I spent the latter half of my career in Special Branch I can say I very rarely set foot inside a police station, and even more rarely in a custody suite, so I will not say now that isn't the case. We just made people disappear if you believe the myths.

GarethThomason673

D&D is a recordable offence, I don't know when this was put into place. It also states on the fine I was given it will be stored on PNC but only visisble on enhanced CRB's as it does not result in a criminal record. Was D&D not a criminal record back when you were in the police to? (I'm aware it can result in a criminal record should you leave the fine or reject the fine and be found guilty at court of course!).

My father's best friend works in the police and said it was a very minor offence and apparently laughed about it when my father asked if it would be a criminal record!

According to the home office website they say that the US do not routinely routinely have access the PNC but can find information about you through Interpol channels. What information is stored on Interpol channels to be precise?

lansbury

OH well in that case it will be on the PNC. There's that outer gone.

GarethThomason673

Yeah. Just wondering what they actually have on the interpol if the US don't have routine access to the PNC!

GarethThomason673

Please see a response from Lawyers. Don't know what to think.

Hi Gareth,

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with that particular English statute. When determining whether or not an offense is a crime involving moral turpitude, you need to look at the statute. There is case law stating that certain disorderly conduct statutes are crimes involving moral turpitude. Thus, I cannot give you answer regarding whether or not your offense is a crime involving moral turpitude.

For U.S. immigration purposes, offenses always exist, even if they have been spent/expunged. Thus, the fact that it does not show up on a police certificate does not mean that you do not have to disclose it to U.S. officials and on applications pertaining to U.S. immigration.

Regards,
Vicki K. Anderson
Attorney

scrubbedexpat099

Seems a fair comment.

lansbury

They might not have routine access to the PNC, but they have routine access in the UK to officers who do. I was one of them.

Do you really think that in your circumstances they are going to bother, they have bigger fish to fry. Still don't think D&D is a CIMT. Unfortunately with that advice from your lawyers you have boxed yourself in.

MsElui

i would have thought you would MOST likely be questioned at point of entry due to the red faced, sweating, shivering, nervous tick, etc you will be demonstrating over EXCESSIVELY worrying about a likely non-event. You will look suspicious before you even open your mouth. For gawds sake calm down and stop getting yourself in such a frenzy. You have told the truth - answered the question in good faith, etc so there is no reason to deny at that point unless you continue to look as guilty as a suicide bomber at the POE.

GarethThomason673

I’m truly sorry to have taken up your time everyone.

I suppose I will go ahead and try to forget about it, after all, if I ticked yes on the ESTA it wouldn’t be my honest answer as I do not feel it is CIMT.

Appreciate all the advice everyone has given, thanks.