B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

Hi, I've recently had a B2 visa denied. I was aiming to go for a 6 month Buddhist retreat at my teachers centre in upstate New York. The embassy said I'd applied for the wrong type and that I should have gone for an R1 or J2. Moreover, they said that it would be necessary for the monastery or centre where I was going to stay, to petition for the visa on my behalf.
I checked before and double checked with the terms of the R1 and J2 and both seem inappropriate for my purpose. In respect of the R2 I would definitely not be working as a religious minister and I understand that application for the R2's have become a logistical nightmare in practice and for the J2 I don't think the centre would qualify as an educational establishment for this. Also I don't want to be prohibited from returning to the States for 2 years as my teacher gives teachings every year for a month in July.
In the event due to emails not getting picked up I did not have formal corroboration from the centre that my purpose was to stay there for retreat, I only had a email which the embassy did not accept as sufficient. If I did have formal corroboration do you think they would allow a re-application?
In short is it possible for a Buddhist Retreat to qualify as a purpose in order to get a US visa? If so how and with the proper corroboration from my teachers centre would it be out of order to go for a 3 year visa for a traditional 3 year Buddhist Retreat in the future?
My situation is that I am 42 years old, unmarried, I own an un-mortgaged flat in London which I have rented for the year in order to study and practice Buddha dharma full time. All my family are in England and I have lived here all my life. I have just finished a PGCE, teacher training, in RE last June and have not got a job at the moment but am living on rental income and am financially secure and independent. I have no intention of immigrating to the States but I very much want to do retreats under the guidance of my teacher.
If anyone could offer any guidance on this I would really appreciate it.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

The obvious solution would be to do a shorter retreat, under 90 days, and use the VWP.

For a 3 year retreat you would need to look elsewhere.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

This right here shows why it would have been better to get a legal consultation before your application; you have several misunderstandings.

You can still consult with an attorney; your visit is not for normal tourist purposes, and you need some help explaining your case to the Consulate. Don't close doors for yourself based on your own limited understanding.. one of those visas might be a better application for you.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

Now that the OP has been denied a B2 can he still use the VWP?

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

I did.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

If he completes ESTA, declaring the denied visa, and ESTA comes back approved...then yes.

Rene

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

It sounds like they got the impression that the retreat would involve you doing some sort of work/labor and therefore require work authorization.

Were you paying to attend the retreat, if so, how much? Were meals/lodging included? Were other people attending who were paying more or less than you?

The R-1 is a religious worker. The R-2 is their spouse or child. The J-1 is an exchange visitor and the J-2 is their spouse or child. Unless this Buddhist organization has been approved by SEVIS, forget about the F, M, or J classifications.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

You also might ask the administrative staff if they have ever had non-US residents attend previous retreats, and if so, how they accomplished it.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

I would have thought that a B or a VWP would be the appropriate visa type.

But he had no ties whatsoever outside the US and is eligible for the VWP. So a very very long shot.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

But the CO told him it is NOT the right visa type.
I'm curious about how it was presented.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

I agree that it seems like a B or VWP(WT) would be fine for a retreat. If the ConOff told them they were in the wrong class then something about the retreat must have involved work, or the ConOff was just mistakenly under the impression that it did.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

This is a different situation entirely, but just to share my experience of a B2 and 'computer says no'...

My PhD supervisor was coming to the US on sabbatical and I had the option of joining him (well, the other 'option' was being supervisorless for 6 months.) I was not enrolled anywhere in the US, I wasn't receiving money from any source in the US, but I was very clearly being a student by way of my ongoing discussions with him (only.) Our host institution was certainly SEVIS approved, but they wouldn't do a J-1, since I was not enrolled, paying fees, going to classes - basically, I didn't exist to them in any way. (Mind, there was some discussion about whether their letting me use a desk was 'support'!)

I applied for a B2 and was completely upfront about my trip, which of course tripped the 'student' alarm. Luckily the ConOff I had was both smart and incredibly helpful, and quickly realised this was something that would need individual attention. I was sent on my way, having left my passport with them (on instruction.)

What ensued were several days of regular updates (wonderful ConOff!) - I believe my case made it a fair way up the food chain in DC! In the end, it was granted with a provision for "Independent Study."

Of course, as soon as I hit POE and said 'student', I was sent to secondary. However, since this saga probably had several reams of documentation devoted to it, I was allowed through pretty quickly from there.

So, yeah. I'm NOT AT ALL saying that this will happen to you (it already appears to have failed?), but just to put it out there that sometimes cases in the grey zone can be worked out.

Important details: I was applying in Melbourne (much less notorious for B2 denial,) I had strong ties to home (university statements demanding I return) and the US school I was visiting is well-known and no doubt has a very extensive history with USCIS.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

I read it slightly differently.

They told him he was not getting a B and mentioned a R or J. Neither of which seem likely but hey not the first time.

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

Thanks so much everyone.
Actually to be honest I presented like a total amateur and I hadn't done enough homework on it since I didn't think it was going to be too much of a problem. The only documentation I had were those they said you had to bring and a couple of emails showing purpose, my financial situation, and a letter showing proof of ownership of my flat. But in retrospect I agree I needed some help explaining my case to the consulate since it is not a normal tourist purpose. In fact he did mention going to an attorney. I guess this would be an immigration specialist? Any ideas of the cost of this process, how it works and who to go to in or around london?
I did make it very clear that there was no work involved and that I would be staying the whole time at the centre. I wasn't asked if I would be paying for food and lodging but I would be doing so.
The VW is what I have been using to date. I gather that having had a visa denied it might be better to wait at least 6 months before re-applying for the ESTA. Do you agree?
Other people do retreats at the same cost/rate per month at the centre but I am sure it doesn't have SEVIS status. The centre does not provide any qualifications or education in a conventional sense.
I did have a very expensive telephone conversation with one of the admin staff immediately following the applications refusal and she thought that the CO was mistaken as to my purpose in indicating an R or J. Still she was stretched to find a way to include it under B also suggesting that perhaps a seminar could cover it. She didn't really know what to advise accept to try re-applying under B with an official letter from the centre.
Yes I do think this is a grey area. I wonder if I would have more joy applying from Asia where spiritual motivation is not regarded with such suspicion?

Re: B2 US visa denied for Buddhist Retreat
 

While others may agree, I do not.


Where in Asia? Are you from there or have sufficient status there to warrant them allowing you to file?

Ian