Scoutlad

Duly noted, Eric. Thanks. I was going to hop over to that forum with my marriage questions.

Thanks to all for your feedback and support. He is going to try again for the interview, as he thinks he made some mistakes in his original interview in terms of specifying his work and educational requirements in which he must return. I can let you know how it turns out.

Noorah101

Please do keep us posted. You never know, maybe the next ConOff will reconsider. But you and he should not get your hopes up, and have a Plan B in mind.

Rene

Cadenza-93

Sorry, but this is in fact incorrect, since the demise of section 3 of DoMA is on a federal level. A USC in a same sex relationship CAN sponsor their partner for a marriage based visa regardless of whether the state recognises or acknowledges same-sex marriage. However in the case of the K1 visa, they would have to have their ceremony in a state that does recognise same sex marriage.

Eric S

Sorry, you're right. I guess I should have said as long as the couple is legally married. But they would have had to be married in a state that allows gay marriage.

- Eric S.

crg

The consular officers aren't stupid. They know people don't often take six month vacations to visit friends they aren't sleeping with. Not stating that simple fact makes the applicant seem rehearsed, sneaky, dishonest and not credible.

jeffreyhy

I agree with other posters that having a love interest in the USA raises a question with regard to immigrant intent. On the other hand, for a letter offering free room and board to an alien for an extended visit to the USA to have credibility there must be some sort of relationship between two people?It's a fine line to walk, but I think a necessary one.

You say that the letter was not presented at the visa interview, so how did he demonstrate that he could afford the proposed long visit without having to work while in the USA to support himself? Those letters might want to say more than that he is expected back to resume his job and his schooling. They might also want to explain, briefly and concisely, how he can be away so long. Most work and school vacation periods are much shorter than 5-6 months, so one would expect that there must be some kind of accommodation being made? Right. Alternatively, additional information could lead to approval. Many things can be double-edged swords. The presentation must be well thought out because how information is presented can be as important, or more important, than the information itself. Information can't be just thrown out there for the consular officer to figure out on their own - it should be presented in a way that leads the consular officer to see it the way you want him to see it. Regards, JEff

Scoutlad

Thanks for the feedback. Admittedly, my partner feels he made mistakes during the interview that sealed his fate before he could even present any paperwork. For example, he said he was leaving his employment (for the purposes of this trip) but in reality he plans to return to the firm when he returns (and has permission to do so). He also said he had to return to take exams, and when the officer asked how he planned to study for these exams while on holiday, he didn't have a good answer. I believe he said something like studying on the plane and "here and there." It was not a good answer. So I think the officer already made his decision before the topic was raised regarding where he'd stay and the nature of our relationship.

It sounds like I should rewrite my letter and explicitly state our relationship and the reason we're seeking the B-2 versus the VWP. As you've stated, it might sound like a reason to immigrate, but at least it is honest and explains why his housing/food costs are covered. His university allows leave of absence/sabbatical for students to travel, and he can get a letter attesting to that. And his employer is flexible with this.

Noorah101

And what exactly IS the reason he's seeking a B-2 instead of using the VWP? Keep in mind that the reasons "I want to spend a longer time with my significant other" and "I want to see more of the USA or spend more time in the USA" are not acceptable answers.

Rene

crg

Another factor is that it's tough to present a case for a B2 visa by claiming you are well off enough to spend 6 months in the US and still maintain a foreign residence while away for so long, but not well off enough to spend the money fly home for a while after 3 months or visit other countries. Also, the B2 would likely be valid for 10 years so the consular officer must be quite convinced before granting such a benefit.

B2 visitors can apply to extend, change status to work/study, adjust status and are quite difficult to remove from the US. VWP visitors can be easily refused entry and quickly removed even after admission.

Scoutlad

That's a good question and the answer is a bit convoluted. He is seeking the B-2 because the career center at his uni suggested he do that. He needs to complete independent research to wrap up his degree. But he can do it anywhere, including in the US. We originally looked at the B-1 but that seemed difficult to obtain and not exactly what he was doing...the research for that visa seems different than research for a uni degree. He will work on a self-directed research assignment with a culminating project but can do it anywhere. He chose to do it here, and since it involves analyzing a business, he will be analyzing my friend's company. Relatedly, it's not really considered a formal internship either, so we didn't take that visa route either, per the advice of this center. They suggested taking a "sabbatical", which is apparently something students can do for a semester, and apply for the tourist visa. We didn't question it, but in hindsight, we really should have.

So his visit here will be predominantly tourist activities, and in the down times he will be working on this project. Perhaps the J1 was a better visa for him, but he was advised against that because apparently it is difficult to get and takes a long time? We planned a number of tourist activities, and I already booked ski trips in February and March, a trip to Florida in April and camping and beach trips in May and June, before he returns to the Netherlands for exams. So that is the reason for length of the trip...to have ample time to work on his project, as well as do all the activities we planned over several seasons. And this has been one of my biggest frustrations with all these visa categories...they seem so specific and mutually exclusive but clearly our situation involves many different factors.

civilservant

So basically he wants to hang out in the US for 6 months, and incidentally do some schoolwork. I'd be prepared for another denial - because none of that seems like a compelling reason to grant a B2.

ian-mstm

Perhaps, but only if the US allows him to. As you're finding out, that's not as easy as you might think.


It's a shame you took immigration advice from someone who had no idea what is or isn't allowed.


With respect, it sounds like doing this project in the US has less to do with his studies, and more to do with you two being together for as long as possible. I'm not saying that's a bad thing... but to the eyes of a US immigration officer, it's not a compelling reason for a B-2 visa.


Many visas are mutually exclusive - that's the nature of US immigration but, while your situation may involve different factors, it all boils down to one thing... a compelling reason to grant a B-2 visa.

It's unlikely that your partner will be coming to the US anytime soon... so the sooner he makes alternate plans for school, the better off he'll be. Holiday trips that have already been planned can be cancelled, and there are two visas available that will allow you both to be together. Good luck to you.

Ian

Scoutlad

Okay, well we clearly we screwed up on this. Unfortunately, his career advisement office pushed for the B-2 when that was not the right path. I'm not sure why they suggested that when it seems evident that countries with VWP are much less likely to provide a B-2. We are going to investigate the marriage options available to us. But in addition, we really want to try the B-2 interview again. As we see it, we already lost the ESTA, so there is no harm in trying again (other than the fee). I have gotten lots of different advice here, so I just want to summarize the best strategy for this interview:

1. Emphasize his educational and work commitments that he MUST return to with specific dates of return and documentation showing this.
2. Show a detailed travel itinerary that shows the many tourist activities we've planned, and specific date of return.
3. Explain that he is coming to visit me, his partner, and a longer stay to complete many winter, spring and summer tourist activities is preferable over the 90 day limit.
4. Explain that he has a long-term project to complete for his school while visiting, and he must return to his country to defend this project afterward. This project is a semester-long project that goes well beyond 90 days, yet it is not a traditional internship nor independent research that would fit into the B-1. That's why we thought the B-2 would be the best fit.

Would those all seem advisable? Anything missing? Or should any of those be omitted?

Also, is it at all advisable to ask the officer for help, saying he was misled by his career advisement office to seek a B-2 when another visa might have been more appropriate? We really are very naive about this whole thing -- but I don't know if the officers would be empathetic to that or not.

ian-mstm

Don't bring anything to the interview that isn't already included in the B-2 application. The officer is obligated to review the package... but he isn't obligated to review anything you bring to the interview. Include all your documents and evidence in the B-2 package.


This is all that matters.


This is less important - the US really doesn't care about his holiday plans.


This is irrelevant and should not be included at all. Indeed, including this info is likely to lead directly to another denial.


Include this info as part of #1 above.


No. The officer will have no interest in whether or not you followed bad advice. If you want to help other people who might follow after you, inform the university's dean that the advice you received was inappropriate and that the career center should not be giving US immigration advice without knowing the ramifications of their actions.

Ian

Noorah101

Perfect.

Excellent.

I would de-emphasize the relationship aspect. Don't hide it or lie about it, but don't place an emphasis on it, as it gives him a good reason to stay in the USA.

I wouldn't even mention that he's going to be doing some project in the USA. That could be misunderstood as some type of "work" or "study" for which the B-2 is not appropriate. The ConOff's question will be "OK, since he can do that anywhere, why do it in the USA? Just stay home and do it, then. Doing the research is NOT a reason to be inside the USA".

He can ask, but the ConOff is not obligated to answer, nor even give correct advise on which visa he should have gone for. For that kind of information, he should talk to an experienced immigration attorney.

Nope.

Rene