r32_gts

Hi all

I'm hoping you can help me with this question. I originally read this forum intensely a few years ago, when I was applying for my E3 visa to work in the US. I think reading up on the advice was a big part of why I managed to get through the visa process without any problems, and I really would appreciate it if you can help me again. At that time I tried to give back to the group by talking through my E3 visa experience in the hopes it would help others.

So - my question - am I a US citizen at birth?

I didn't think I was, but after reading more recently, it appears that it could be possible. The details of my situation:

- I was born in Australia, in 1984
- My father is a US citizen, born in New York in 1950. My mother is a British citizen and so I figure an 'alien' under US law. They were married prior to my birth, and still are
- We never lived in the US, I grew up in Australia and spent my adult life there except while living in the US recently
- When I lived in the US, it was on that E3-Australian visa, renewed once - for a total of 4 years
- Given that I was born in 1984, I understand that dad has a 'physical presence' requirement in the US of 10 years, including 5 years after the age of 14
- My dad lived in NYC until he was about 6, and then lived in Aruba in the Caribbean until he was around 14. The family moved with my grandfather, who worked for the American Bureau of Shipping
- Dad would regularly return to the US for visits from Aruba until he was around 14, then I believe he briefly returned to the US a couple of times in his twenties. So out of the 5+5 years requirement, I think he would have lived in the US more like 5+2 years (and hard to verify on documents)

So I had looked at this in the past, but I thought that I was not a citizen because my dad hadn't spent enough 'physical presence' time in the US to qualify to pass on his citizenship to me. More recently I did some more reading and saw there may be two reasons that I should consider it further:

1) I read something suggesting that my fathers time overseas as a dependent child of a US citizen could be considered time in the US if his parent was working for the US government or a 'qualifying organization'. His father worked for the American Bureau of Shipping, which is a non-profit classification society, seems to be specifically mentioned throughout US law, whose board members include representatives from the US government. I am hoping that could somehow be considered either employment by the US government or considered as an international organization? In which case dad's time in his father's care up until age of 18 could still be considered as 'physical presence' time?

2) Alternatively, I also read that if the parent doesn't meet the physical presence requirement, the grandparent's time in the US can be used to do so. My father's mother was a US citizen born in Scotland, and emigrated to New York when she was a toddler, and lived there for ~25 years as a naturalized US citizen. My father's father was a New Zealand citizen, who became a naturalized US citizen and served in the US merchant marine during WW2. So I think at least one of them would satisfy the physical presence requirement, but I suspect this is only applicable if I was applying while under 18?

One other random note - my dad spent about a month with us while visiting the US in 2018. I only mention that because I'd read some posts about how if the USC parent resides with the child in the country that has some quirky effect on citizenship. But I think that's only relevant if I was under 18 at the time and in my dad's care.

In case anyone is thinking about the route of spending more time in the US via immigration-work visas and green card and eventual citizenship etc - I am not so keen on that because I will be spending the medium term back in Australia, primarily because my dad is in poor health these days. I just want to take this further with a formal application if it's something I was 'born with'.

Also I figure there will be difficulties in proving up documentation for the US authorities, however I guess that is a second order issue to look at if it seems I am a citizen to begin with.

Thanks in advance for input or advice that anyone has! I appreciate it a lot. Cheers

newacct

Yes, time your father spent abroad in his father's household while his father was "employed by the United States Government" would count as your father's physical presence in the US. I have no idea whether his father's employment counts as "employed by the United States Government". You can read 8 FAM 301.7-3(B)(e) and see if that helps.

This expeditious naturalization process is not automatic, and must be applied for and completed while you were under 18, so it does not help you now.

civilservant

Unless he was one of those members that was explicitly 'employed by the US Government' then I don't believe it would count, since some being explicitly employed similarly implies that those that are not don't enjoy that status. I assume that he wasn't, based on the fact that you didn't say so in your OP.

As you quite rightly state, this is irrelevant because you are over 18.

Based on what you mentioned above, it seems unlikely you are a USC, although it may be worth having a consultation with an immigration attorney conversant in these issues.

r32_gts

Thank you newacct & civilservant - really appreciate your answers!

I've been doing more reading and found some more information that may be helpful. I think it would involve me making an argument that I was a US citizen - given that I could have successfully followed a process to confirm my citizenship up until the age of 18 (my grandparents having spent enough physical presence time in the US), however I lost my citizenship given that the appropriate forms and processes were not filed before I turned 18. As you can imagine this route would probably need to be via an attorney. Seems to be associated to INTCA law. Doctrine of constructive retention seems related, but maybe not applicable to me directly.

As you can tell I'm doing a lot of reading, but haven't locked much down into clear thoughts, so it's all still pretty vague - would welcome any input! Thanks again,

civilservant

The best anyone here can say is to consult an immigration attorney conversant in citizenship issues.

r32_gts

Thank you civilservant

I know that you and others probably can't recommend any immigration attorneys, but if you've heard about any immigration attorneys with good experience or records in this field please feel free to mention their names so I can check them out. I'm obviously doing my own research but can't hurt to ask for other people's input just in case. Thank you

lizzyq

Start with looking at the AILA website

S Folinsky

When I was in practice, my "mavens" on citizenship law was the Mautino law office in San Diego (father and daughter). I recommend highly a paid consultation with Kathrin S. Mautino.

r32_gts

Thanks S Folinsky I appreciate the recommendation

Pulaski

It sounds like what you're talking about is when a USC parent moves to the US with their non-USC minor child. The child needs a visa to enter the US to live with their parent, but on entering the US using the visa, the child is immediately conferred US citizenship, but it is critical that the child is a minor at the time of arrival to live in the US.