ACRO No Live Trace
#16
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 36
Re: ACRO No Live Trace
For the DS-260, it asks if I have ever been arrested or convicted. At the time of the caution, the police made it very clear to me that this is not a conviction. I was never arrested, I voluntarily went to the police station to give an interview. As such, I haven't disclosed it. Does this invalidate my application because on the government's website it says that acaution is not a criminal conviction.
However, unfortunately, under US immigration law a UK caution is considered a conviction, because in order to accept a UK police caution you must admit to the offence, and sign attesting to this.
Yes, you should have declared it - probably not the end of the world, as it doesn't appear to be a crime involving moral turpitude, you were a minor, and it is a single offence. In other words, it shouldn't disqualify you from eligibility.
Just make sure you have everything you can regarding it - you have the ACRO certificate, but I would also suggest ordering a subject access report - https://www.acro.police.uk/Subject-access - this is NOT the same as the ACRO certificate.
It has been a decade since I did mine, and while my ACRO certificate, like yours, simply showed 'no live trace' , the subject access report detailed my caution, right down to the serial number of the DNA sample that was taken at the time. It was beneficial at my interview as clarified something for the interviewing consular officer and was approved on the spot.
Last edited by 212; Mar 29th 2021 at 2:29 pm.
#17
Re: ACRO No Live Trace
Arrests mean nothing - you can be charged & convicted or cautioned without an arrest, and you can be arrested for something serious and then NFA. Innocent until proven otherwise remember!
However, unfortunately, under US immigration law a UK caution is considered a conviction, because in order to accept a UK police caution you must admit to the offence, and sign attesting to this.
Yes, you should have declared it - probably not the end of the world, as it doesn't appear to be a crime involving moral turpitude, you were a minor, and it is a single offence. In other words, it shouldn't disqualify you from eligibility.
Just make sure you have everything you can regarding it - you have the ACRO certificate, but I would also suggest ordering a subject access report - https://www.acro.police.uk/Subject-access - this is NOT the same as the ACRO certificate.
It has been a decade since I did mine, and while my ACRO certificate, like yours, simply showed 'no live trace' , the subject access report detailed my caution, right down to the serial number of the DNA sample that was taken at the time. It was beneficial at my interview as clarified something for the interviewing consular officer and was approved on the spot.
However, unfortunately, under US immigration law a UK caution is considered a conviction, because in order to accept a UK police caution you must admit to the offence, and sign attesting to this.
Yes, you should have declared it - probably not the end of the world, as it doesn't appear to be a crime involving moral turpitude, you were a minor, and it is a single offence. In other words, it shouldn't disqualify you from eligibility.
Just make sure you have everything you can regarding it - you have the ACRO certificate, but I would also suggest ordering a subject access report - https://www.acro.police.uk/Subject-access - this is NOT the same as the ACRO certificate.
It has been a decade since I did mine, and while my ACRO certificate, like yours, simply showed 'no live trace' , the subject access report detailed my caution, right down to the serial number of the DNA sample that was taken at the time. It was beneficial at my interview as clarified something for the interviewing consular officer and was approved on the spot.
You correctly note the issue about “moral turpitude.” That said, another concern are drug related offenses. This separate from the moral turpitude grounds of inadmissibility. When I was in practice, I would see cautions related to marijuana. At that point, the legal issues would come important. (Here is a venerable immigration case about a British musician with a minor possession conviction).
#18
Re: ACRO No Live Trace
I had No Live Trace on my ACRO also from when I was arrested for drinking (17 years old) back in 2005. I had to get a subject access report and I was asked about it at my medical (because it was alcohol related) and also at my interview so make sure you have all the information. I did the K1
#19
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 162
Re: ACRO No Live Trace
Sorry, have come to this a little late, but it's very interesting.
I think the OP has a strong argument that he has not been 'arrested' nor 'convicted' of the offence he accepted a caution for. Conviction is a process and is defined in the U.S. Department of Justice Criminal Resources Manual as :
In the UK, it is well established a caution is not a conviction.
Having said that, his admission of guilt by accepting the caution means he has, under law, committed the office and it could be held against him in any subsequent prosecution in the UK.. So if a question is ever worded 'have you ever committed, been arrested for or been convicted of...' he would have to answer 'YES'.
Now turning to the DS-160, it asks 'Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offence or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty, or OTHER SIMILAR ACTION?' [emphasis added]. Firstly it doesn't ask whether the applicant has 'committed' an offence or crime even though it could easily have done so and in fact further down it does for specific offences such as drugs, human trafficking, genocide, torture, etc. The question then becomes whether a caution would fall within the rider 'OTHER SIMILAR ACTION'. I think not, because the wording suggests it is the arrest or conviction that is the 'subject'.
That's my reading of DS160 and the facts as put forward by the OP.
Practically speaking, there is a clear distinction on ACRO's between 'No Live Trace' and 'No Trace' which the U.S. consulate in the UK is very well aware. But if they ask you about it and you explain the situation I believe this ought not be an issue. At worse they may ask you to provide more proof that you were not in fact 'arrested' and then you would need to go through the extra steps referred to others above but from my experience of the interview process when I did it at the U.S. consulate in London I would be very very surprised.
As I say, very interesting.
I think the OP has a strong argument that he has not been 'arrested' nor 'convicted' of the offence he accepted a caution for. Conviction is a process and is defined in the U.S. Department of Justice Criminal Resources Manual as :
In United States practice, conviction means a finding of guilt (i.e., a jury verdict or finding of fact by the judge) and imposition of sentence. ...
Having said that, his admission of guilt by accepting the caution means he has, under law, committed the office and it could be held against him in any subsequent prosecution in the UK.. So if a question is ever worded 'have you ever committed, been arrested for or been convicted of...' he would have to answer 'YES'.
Now turning to the DS-160, it asks 'Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offence or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty, or OTHER SIMILAR ACTION?' [emphasis added]. Firstly it doesn't ask whether the applicant has 'committed' an offence or crime even though it could easily have done so and in fact further down it does for specific offences such as drugs, human trafficking, genocide, torture, etc. The question then becomes whether a caution would fall within the rider 'OTHER SIMILAR ACTION'. I think not, because the wording suggests it is the arrest or conviction that is the 'subject'.
That's my reading of DS160 and the facts as put forward by the OP.
Practically speaking, there is a clear distinction on ACRO's between 'No Live Trace' and 'No Trace' which the U.S. consulate in the UK is very well aware. But if they ask you about it and you explain the situation I believe this ought not be an issue. At worse they may ask you to provide more proof that you were not in fact 'arrested' and then you would need to go through the extra steps referred to others above but from my experience of the interview process when I did it at the U.S. consulate in London I would be very very surprised.
As I say, very interesting.
#20
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: ACRO No Live Trace
Can you be cautioned without being arrested?