$585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Hello, all...

I've been a lurking member for about a year, got a lot of great info from this site (which is why I never had to post until now).

I'm USC, filing I-129F for UKC fiancee. Filed back in March. Got an RFE about 3 wks ago, wanting proof of termination of prior marriage. I sent it w/ I-129F, but I thought they wanted a "more official" copy, so I sent the copy I had with the raised seals.

Turns out that I missed one word. Don't let anyone ever tell you that 3 letters can't kick your butt! The word I missed was "all", as in "all prior marriages". I have been married twice before, so I sent them the divorce decree from Marriage #2. I never realized they wanted divorce decree from Marriage #1 (as polygamy has been illegal in the US for quite some time).

Now, USCIS **could have** simply sent another RFE, clarifying what they actually wanted... instead, they DENIED me, and stated that if I wish to appeal, it will cost $585.00. Sorry, I know I missed a word, but it hardly seems right to penalize me nearly $600 because they couldn't be bothered to send me another RFC.

Anyway, I e-mailed my Congressman via his web site, and asked him to intervene and get the fee waived.

I was just wondering if anyone here had ever had any luck getting the $585 fee waived (and I also wanted to advise anyone in a similar situation).

-- Jim in Michigan

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Can't say that I know of anyone. What is the filing fee these days for the I-129F?

I could have told you about the "all" part. DH is now on marriage #3 and needed both divorce decrees for the I-129F. Need a paper trail that all marriages were valid which means showing that all divorces were valid.

Good Luck.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Found the fee. Cheaper to just refile.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

From strictly a cost perspective, I agree. However, re-filing means we re-start the whole timeline from scratch. We should actually be close to the point of interview, I certainly don't want to start all over again. :thumbdown:

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

If you're still working on getting the I-129F approved, you are nowhere near the K-1 interview yet.

I'd just re-file.

Rene

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

I'm at a loss to understand this. Ours is a relatively straightforward case, and had I realized what they really wanted and sent it in, we should be close to the finish, shouldn't we? It's been 5 months, and that's what USCIS's timeline says. Besides, from everything I've read, the majority of the wait is for them to *get to* your case, not the actual work (due to finite amount of CIS employees, and first-come-first-served). Have I misinterpreted that?

If we re-file, it will be another 5 months before we get to where we are right now. How can that be better?

This is a simple paperwork snafu. I can't see how it's right to have to start over (and besides, all I really wanted was to know if anyone had had any luck getting the $585 fee waived).

Thanks.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

The 5 months is for the I-129F approval. After that, it gets transferred to London and the UKC applies for the actual visa, gets the medical done, gets the police report, and attends the interview. All of that takes a few more months.

Sorry to hear of the snafu, though...hopefully you can get it straightened out to your satisfaction. I don't have any experience with the appeal fee or process.

Rene

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

If they would've just sent me a handwritten note that said "NO DUMMY, THE OTHER DIVORCE!" ;)

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Hi:

In my experience, most people not only want to save money, they also want to save time. Personally I think it is better to start over again now and pay less money rather than start again later and pay and extra $585 in the interim.

The choice is yours. I think Rete is right. But if you want to delay the case even more due to your making a second mistake ...

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Well, I am angry about the money, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not as important as time. Is it really faster to start all over again than to file the I-290B? Especially if my congressman intervenes? That would mean throwing 5 months in the trash. :-(

This seems SO totally wrong, over a simple paperwork goof.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

I agree with the above posts, as you didnt respond "correctly" to the RFE your case is probably at the bottom of the pile now. As far as it being a "simple goof" they have better things to do then send out RFE's again an again because *you* made the mistake of not reading it properly. As far as they are concerned they gave you a chance to rectify the problem and you didnt (unknowingly).

If you made a copy of everything you sent for the I-129F cancel the current one, and reapply. Make sure you include both copies of divorce papers this time and you shouldnt get an RFE again, your petition will be processed a lot quicker.

As pointed out also, the petition is about 5 months. After that there is still about 3-5 months woth of Visa application stuff to go through. The petition is so your non-usc fiancee can apply for the visa.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Yes, I made a mistake, and I already owned up to it... to have to start over again, however, seems an EXTREMELY harsh penalty, because some bureaucrat is too lazy to send a letter.

And yes, I made several copies of everything... however, not everything can be a copy... a lot of those forms have to be my or fiancee's actual signature... plus, photos have to be recent, etc., etc.

I will wait and see what my congressman says. (Which is sort of what I really referred to in the first place, and no one seems to have any info about that, which I find kind of strange.)

In any event, thanks for your response.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Its not always that they are too lazy - do you have any idea how many petitions they have to deal with every week? month? year?

As for copies. when your fiancee signs a form and you get it back scan it or get a photocopy. and photos -dont send them the actual photos unless you have them on your pc coz your gonna need them again for the visa and possibly for the AOS.

I dont know anything about getting the congressman in to help you out, i hope he can do something for you, but like i said, if your application is at the bottom of the pile, it really would be worth starting again :(

good luck either way!

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Well, if *I* had a job like that, it would be OBVIOUS that the petitioner misread the RFE, so yes, I would send a brief letter stating WHICH divorce was being referred to. I would find 10 minutes in my day to do this, and I would expect someone else to do the same.

I have copies of EVERYTHING... but some of those documents are not supposed to be copies. And photos - I am referring to the passport-style photos that you must submit, those do not come from my computer, those were taken at a pharmacy, I think (and I do not know where my fiancee had hers taken, probably someplace similar).

I am simply heartbroken, and angry, over this. Now is about the time our I-129F *should have* been approved (had everything went properly).

Our system is totally screwed up, and the govt. should be ashamed. If my fiancee were to fly here on VWP, and we got married, I could have permit to live and work in the UK in a couple of weeks... other way 'round, and it's months on end. :banghead:

Anyway, sorry to vent. It's just a mess, and I'm frustrated.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

I am not a lawyer, but doesn't an appeal mean that you ask them to look at the information you already provided, and reverse the denial into an approval? They won't be able to do that, because they're still missing the one divorce decree from you. An appeal doesn't even make sense to my layman's mind in this case. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you can add information when appealing...an appeal asks them to review your existing documents and find a way to approve based on that.

Since you are missing a document, it seems the correct thing to do would be to refile a new I-129F package, this time including the other divorce decree, so you can get an approval.

Rene

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

For an appeal you really need a lawyer, and from what I have read it would take longer.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

I appreciate all of your responses. As you might imagine, I am quite distraught at the prospect of 5 months wasted. :-(

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Totally undestandable.

When I filed an I-129F back in 2003 for my fiance, it took 5 months for the I-129F approval, but then he was stuck in security checks at NVC for 4 more months. Everyone who had started around the same time I did was passing me by, spending only a few days or a week at NVC. It was VERY hard waiting those extra 4 months for his security check to clear so we could get on with the actual visa application part.

I'm just saying I totally understand how frustrating it is to have to wait any longer than necessary. But sometimes it can't be helped, and just realize that you'll have the rest of your lives together when this is all done.

Rene

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

With all due respect, it sounds as though you don't have the temperment to have "a job like that". You're mad at USCIS because *you* made a mistake - but it is *not* their job to fix your mistakes. And if you had "a job like that" and were to receive hundreds of files each day, I daresay you'd be hard pressed to find "10 minutes" to second-guess why someone included the evidence they did.

Ian

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

m_j,

You seem to be under the mis-impression that filing the motion puts your petition back where it left off, being adjudicated. It doesn't. It puts your case at the bottom of a pile waiting to have the motion considered.

So yes, it's faster to start over with a new petition. The 5 months spent on the old petition is already in the trash.

Regards, JEff

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Sadly, I am getting the impression that this is indeed the case. I guess that's what really bothers me, that one very small (and easily/quickly correctible) mistake makes you have to start all over again. If I were to design a processing system, it *would* put you back where you left off.

But then again, I'm a programmer, not a bureaucrat. ;)

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Actually, I have had several customer service jobs in my life. I've always taken great pride in taking care of the customer's needs to the very best of my abilities (and even now, in the IT field, there is some customer service involved, and I always get rave reviews in that regard). **ESPECIALLY** in the IT field, I could not even *begin* to tell you how many times I have had to walk people through things that were 100% their own fault. Part of what made me good at that is that I am very empathetic, and realize that everyone makes mistakes, has a learning curve, and so on.

I think that's the problem... people who work for the govt. don't see their jobs as customer service jobs. That, and they've forgotten who pays their salaries.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Fair enough... what if you had hundreds of people doing that all day... asking you to help them? How would you get any other work done? I'm not suggesting that what you do isn't worthwhile, I'm suggesting that you consider how quickly overwhelmed by the task you'd become.


With USCIS, expenses are paid through a cost-recovery system... that is to say, via the fees collected for the various applications. You pay for the processing. Whether the application is approved or denied, it was processed. Your case was processed and was deemed insufficient. It's easier to start over, as others have suggested.

Ian

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

m_j,

Have they? It's the applicants and petitioners who pay their salaries, which does not make them beholden to give the applicant or petition the answer they want.

Regards, JEff

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Hi:

Yes, it is quicker.

Also, I find your scenario confusing. Your initial filing did not comply with the instructions. You had to provide proof of the end of "each" prior marriage. A required document was missing. The CIS spotted your error and sent you a "letter" [aka the RFE] which told you then needed proof regarding "all" prior marriages. Again, you again failed to provide the needed documents.

You made a mistake, not once, but twice. Fortunately, this is "without prejudice" to a new application. If you were my client [which you are not], that is what I would do.

BTW, there are several precedent BIA cases in the I-130 arena which allow for second filings, even if you think the CIS was wrong. CIS will have the right to examine your first filing and they will see no negative evidence, just a failure to provide evidence.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

I thought govt. employees were paid by our taxes. I would doubt that the fees collected through submission of immigration forms are enough to cover their salaries and benefits.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Do I have to officially "abandon" this case to start over, or does the fact that it was denied serve that function?

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Hi:

Well said. However, it is not original. There is the old joke in government circles -- "This is not Burger King. You can't have it your own way."

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Jim

Unfortunately the way the system works is that you are sent a RFE. If you respond incorrect, or don't respond at all (whether by design or neglect (some people never receive it in the mail), it is a response and as such USCIS does not feel that it needs to send you notification that you responded incorrectly or didn't respond at all.

It is easy for me to say that common sense would say provide them with every divorce decree or marriage certificate you have because CS tells me that they will need to see the paper trail through the many marriages and divorces you have had or then again CS might say at it did to you, the latest divorce decree proves I am eligible to marry again so that is all they require.

Frustrating. Damn straight it is.

You had your day of anger and got it out of your system (I hope) now complete the forms again and dispatch by registered return receipt requested mail or some such method that generates receipt and go from there.

It will get done.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Hi:

Abandon what case? The only case you mentioned is the I-129F that was completed by its denial.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Now imagine you had 100 people you had to walk through at the same time for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, and they have all been waiting for months or years for you to get to them. Then imagine that they are all bitching about the time it's taking, how much it costs and how bad you are at your job. Would you still take the time to give individual attention? Personally I think it's great that USCIS even take the time to send an RFE, they could just take your money and deny you right there an then for not following the directions.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

There is nothing to abandon. The case has been closed.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure (as you can well imagine, I am now more than a bit gun-shy on making mistakes).

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Thanks for the laugh!!! I could sure use it!

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

I'm sorry you feel that way; what Ian & JEff posted is a fact.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

m_j,

As Ian also indicated in his post #23 earlier in this thread, the cost of operations of CIS is intended to be paid for by the revenues received in the form of fees so that the cost of providing benefits to immigrants is paid for by the immigrants and not the US taxpayer. Cost reviews are made periodically and fees are revised to keep CIS revenue-neutral.

The CIS Fact Sheet here
http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrele...t_02042008.pdf
tells you a little bit about CIS' FY 2009 budget, and the workload figures should give you some idea about why the service cannot afford the time to 'babysit' applicants and petitioners who do not read and follow instructions.

Regards, JEff

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

You're right, the anger is leaving... being replaced with some sadness, as well as a feeling of determination to get the darn thing done. (Speaking with my fiancee this morning helped too... ya gotta love the British and their sensibilities!)

I have another question, but I will create a new thread in a bit, as it is really not related to this topic.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Mostly true... but not for immigration. Why? Because, by and large, US citizens have no need for immigration services.


You probably weren't around a few years ago when USCIS imposed a *massive* price hike for their application fees... summer of 2007, IIRC. They had finally determined that the fees weren't high enough to cover their costs. My wife and I completed the entire immigration journey from K-1 to Naturalization for under $750... including the cost of fees, medicals, and other expenses.

Ian

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

Hi:

I'm glad you are getting the anger out. Practice of immigration law is often an exercise in anger management on the part of the attorney!

However, I will admit to being amused due to a fairly recent thread here -- Michigan US Citizen with a Welsh husband who was turned down for an immigrant visa in London based upon answers he [either gave or the physician says he gave] during the examination. It seems to be the Welshman who is most adamant on insisting "it just ain't right" -- and it is getting in the way. Several of the responders here and myself also noted their anger was getting in the way -- to no avail, alas. Also, my feeling [just a feeling] was that each spouse's anger was feeding the others.

Bottom line, you are a "piece of cake." You get angry and then deal with it. Your beloved has helped you. I think that is a good sign for your marriage.

Good luck.

Re: $585!! 2 prev marriages= 2 div decree's!!
 

When an attorney is acting as the petitioner’s representative, it is the attorney’s job to fix the mistake before the case is ever submitted. Doing the job correctly from the outset is good practice. But that’s the road not taken, and I wish the OP the best of luck.

But let’s add something more than just “luck” to his next filing. Do not submit immigration forms that are photocopies or scans of forms that contain a photocopy or scan of a signature. Submit the actual form that contains the original signature. Also you now know you need to submit all of your divorce decrees. Just to add a bit of “non-luck”, make sure they are both “final” decrees. Not sure where your divorces occurred, but you should be able to call the court that issued the decree and perhaps talk to a clerk who might be able to help you feel more confident that the decree is indeed a final decree (Do you see the word “nisi” on either of the decrees?). Oh, and it helps if the judge has actually signed the decree. I had that issue come up a few months ago. Turns out (when we checked it out before filing the I-129f petition) that the client’s divorce was not final at all.

There are “a lot” of little details that need to be taken into account with a typical case. Again, good luck.