Babycatcher

So here goes – this is my three week reccie update. Before I start just want to point out that these are my opinions and views and I don’t mean to offend if they differ from others – so take what you want and leave the rest.

Ok – we flew BA via Singapore out via Bangkok back. The way out they were AWFUL, rude inconsiderate and almost obnoxious. Apart from one flight attendant that gave me free champagne to celebrate my birthday (RESULT!). On the way back they were great although the short stop over in Bangkok was S**T. We couldn’t get off the flight and my daughter nearly passed out (literally) with the heat – they can’t use air con when the engines are off. Otherwise, it was ok. Can recommend Traveleze tabs for travel sickness and makes you sleepy too.


Ok so we PACKED it in…
We had the luxury of staying with an Aussie/Kiwi family who migrated from N.Z. 12 years ago. They gave me tons of info, advice and also shared they experiences. It was great as I saw how they did things and asked tons of questions [I bet that they were glad to see the back of me].
We met loads of people, looked at areas/housing, did some touristy stuff and generally had a GREAT time as well as the odd encounter with beasties.

People
The Aussie people were SO friendly. The customer service was excellent and whenever we asked for help or directions etc, they could not have been more helpful. On hearing that we might emigrate, they were very enthusiastic –saying stuff like, ‘we need great migrants’. I did not come across any Anti Pommie comment (although there were a few anti Muslim comments, which was upsetting). Ben (my son) had the ‘P’ taken out of his accent but he just shrugged it off and it was just fun.
People everywhere were so so friendly and it was great.

Brisbane
We drove around loads of areas. I think choosing areas is very personal but I’ll share what I thoughts. The city is like any other modern city and has its pros and cons. The shopping is great, lots of places to eat, drink and go out. A really efficient transport system. Buses were on time, air-conditioned and an easy way to get around. There is also trains and the ferry/City cat – all of which we enjoyed.
There were streets that were dirty and seedy looking like anywhere else but that is to be expected but generally, it was clean and tidy.

We all loved Southbank – Streets Beach (the man-made beach) was great and a safe place to hang out. It has a lifeguard so I relaxed while they played – BLISS! Spot the Pommie kids in the water in April! There were plenty of places to eat and drink. At good place for a night out… Friday and Saturday had a craft market open til late and that was great!

We stayed in Mount Ommaney on the West side. There was a great bus service to the CBD, which took 30-40 minutes. Off peak driving 15 mins. It was a lovely area, had a good local centre with supermarkets, greengrocers, butchers etc. BTW: I really liked shopping for food…bit weird that you have to buy the alcohol somewhere else but who cares. I found almost everything that I wanted or something close…it was cool.
House prices vary but you could get somewhere nice for $500k.

Further out was Spring field Lakes… it is a bit like Milton Keynes for those of you that know it. Lots of similar houses, roundabouts. It will have the biggest shopping centre in the Southern hemisphere. There is not a train service yet – due on ‘09. Driving off peak to CBD 40 mins. House prices varied $450-$540. $540 got 1,000 sq.m. with 4 bed house.

Going in from Mount Ommaney we looked at Oxley, slightly run down but you could get a nice sized Queenslander for $350-400K. I like Sinnamon Park and Sherwood…prices going up $400K+. Kenmore was nice, leafier and I felt less in the city and more space, prices $400K+. We looked at The Gap, it was pleasant, a bit samey for me $400K+. I also went further out the other side and saw Ferney Grove, Ferney Hills and Albany Creek and I really like them. People seemed to feel they were the sticks…I was warned that there would be a commute…10 mins to train station and then 30-40 mins to the city on a train! Can you imagine what they thought when I said my Hubbie does a 1.5-2 hour journey to work and the same back again!!! I liked it there though and the house prices were more for the money.

We went to Moreton Island and spent the day at Tangalooma... OH MY GOD - how amazing is that? We had the best day. The kids snorkelled and we all sand tobogganed!!!! WOW! We also fed the wild dolphins – it was amazing.
We went to Movie World! It was a smaller version of Alton Towers and we had a great time.
We visited the Sunshine Coast, which was lovely. The beaches were great and we had a great time. Australia Zoo was something else. Obviously, I never went before Steve Irwin died but I was slightly overwhelmed by the homage to him. But we cuddled the koala and saw the Croc show etc. A fun day. I preferred the intimacy of the Lone Pine Sanctuary in Brisbane but it is much smaller scale. But loads of koalas to cuddle there though.
The Glass House Mountains were breathtaking. We also went to Lammington National Park and that was fantastic.


Down sides
Creepy crawlies: I didn’t come across that many, a few cockroaches, which were rather large…one that ran up my pyjamas and when I stripped of fell down my naked body EEEK! Only came across twp spiders both were easily avoidable – thanks god. The mossies were HELL. They loved me and it took a couple of days to get my head around the spray on IMMEDIATELY at dusk.
Ben was stung by a blue bottle jellyfish – which apparently makes him an honorary Aussie!
Lots of geckos, lizard looking things – we liked them but some people might be creeped out by them wondering around.
No snakes…thank god.

The draught was BAD…the water shortage is scary. They are on Level 5, which means that no unnecessary water can be used. No watering plants, washing cars, filling pools etc. Getting used to a 4 minute shower was quite something. God, we are spoiled here. There are ways to work around it and I am sure you learn more.

Up Sides
I liked the heat and on the hotter days, I loved the heat. I was aware of the different ways you have to make things work within the heat. I.E. keeping the bread frozen or in the fridge, along with flour, sugar, dry ingredients etc, all the vegetables and fruit.
A lack of daylight saving was pants as this lovely heat needs more light to enjoy. It did mean that I was up earlier to enjoy the day and I got loads done and was in bed earlier.
Loved the BYO restaurants – much better value especially as I didn’t think wine was that cheap.

The pace of life was great. Work hard play hard. There were very real job opportunities for me and I was excited about that. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to find out tangible information for my Hubbie (I.T. Networking and Systems) but the consensus was there would be work.

The children had a fantastic time. I was aware that my son is more street wise than his contemporaries are and I liked that the children seemed like children. While we were there he relaxed, played, and was younger – like it should be. He is still anti moving there but I made it very clear that the adults would be making the decisions – it’s as it should be.

General info:
Food for five person family approx $200 per week.
Petrol just over a $1 a litre
Two nights in Sunshine Beach (4 star) $200

I rented a little car (Hyundai Getz) for just over £100 a week
I took 8 people out for dinner (it was a BYO so no alcohol) £90 in Southbank
Wine $15-30 a bottle (although there was some $10 I found!)

So we have been back just over a week … what do I think now? If it was as far as France I would move there like a shot! I feel like we would be mad not to go. So the 64 million dollar question… England or Australia?
And the answer is … I don’t know. I loved nearly everything about it but it is SO far. I can imagine our life there and we would love it...but it is so far.
I worry about the cost if everything went tits up! So Hubbie and I are sitting on it for now. He is going to talk to his HR about a sabbatical for two years which would give us a safety net – although if we went we would go with the intention to stay but the sabbatical would just give us a get out (expensive though it may be!).
So there you have it, for what it’s worth…we haven’t made that final decision…yet!
p.s. if you have any questions that I might be able to help with let me know.

Bonnybute

That was fantastic, thank you

we leave for Brisbane in two weeks, and can't wait, we're also doing the reccie, and validating permanent visa's.

great read, thanks again.

Ozzy7

Brilliant feedback and have to say you sumed it all up pretty well, Brisbaine is a lovely city I wish we could live there but cant get the right visa for 2 years so have to live in Perth first. The Lone Pine is something out of this world isnt it we loved it there too.

You know that old saying " You only live once" my advice to you is get the ball rolling and move over there as you will certainly have a better family life over there which Im sure you wont regret.

Tableland

Australia. When you're old and doddering up to the Post Office in the rain (if they have Post Offices in the future), you will regret the things you didn't do more than the things you did. You can always come back you know, and it takes about as long to fly to Australia as it does to drive into London from the Home Counties at rush hour.

madmaz

thnaks for a great post.we are going out on a reccie in oct/nov.
we have family in perth but hubby fancies brisbane so we are going to look at both.did you look at any schools while you were there.
glad you had a great time
maz

samnsam

Brilliant post, makes me want to get there all the more sooner.
We did most of what you did, but as that was nearly 3 years ago, I had forgotten lots, so thanks for jogging my memory.
Hope that whatever you decide is the right one. And thanks for putting your reccie down for us lot to read
Sam xx

discobay

Loved your post Babycatcher. I lived in Brisbane some years back and your comments brought all those memories back - thank you.
It is a difficult decision. I can only suggest that you read around some more especially sites like this one to get a handle on what the pros and cons are and the hurdles to overcome. As someone said it's not another planet but I know where you're coming from with regards to nightmare long haul flights.

dimparcio

Nice post. My wife lived in Brisbane long before I met her and as a young, single girl-about-town she loved it.
I like visiting Brisbane, but we wanted a bit more space for our money so we chose the Sunshine Cost.

...and this is where it all goes downhill.

We have found that we have to drive everywhere. Supermarkets don't offer online shopping or home delivery. There are few footpaths and no cycle paths so to get into town we have to push the pram along a 2-lane highway.

Internet services are way behind. Outside of the big cities, you'll struggle to find high-speed internet. All the providers we spoke to refused to say whether they could provide their service to our property until we had the phone connected, or until we'd signed a 12 month contact (subject to service availability).
If you assume you'll be able to use Skype to keep up with teh folks back home, then you might be in for a nasty surprise.

I'm afraid that I have to disagree with your opinons on customer service. My wife and I have lived in Britain, Canada, India and Australia, and Oz is the worst of the lot.
Firstly, call centres are often only open during business hours and frequently shut at weekends and during public holidays. That's very frustrating when you work full time.
Too many companies have promised to call back and then failed to do so.
Yesterday I was in Myer (the rough equivalent of John Lewis) wanting to ask about a $3000 kitchen appliance. The shop assistant was taking a personal call on her mobile phone and wouldn't acknowlege our presence. The other assistants said that it wasn't their department so couldn't help.
I was told by an Optus salesperson (Optus are a large telecoms company that we use for our home phone) that my town was getting broadband cable laid (whoopee!!). I emailed the broadband support centre to find out the details and they said that they didn't know and I should phone their phone support line (at national calling rates, often subject to lengthy (and therefore expensive) queues). I replied, asking him to go the extra mile and I got a snotty jobsworth answer back.
We opened an HSBC account to hold the proceeds from the sale of our British house. They repeatedly lost our money and we nearly defaulted on the contract we'd signed. I had to drive 2 hours to the nearest branch and get the bank manager into a room for an hour before they would do something about it.
I booked a courier the other day. I phoned at 8am and he said he'd be there at 11. He turned up at 4pm and when I checked with his manager, he said it wasn't a problem because they don't send stuff out until the end of the day anyhow. Quite how they can offer same day delivery is anyone's guess.

Road safety is an issue. I looked up the relative death tolls the other day and they were [for 2005] something like this: UK 3000 deaths for 60 million people; Queensland 330 deaths for 4 million. That's 0.0050% of the UK population versus 0.0083% of the Queensland population.
I can hazzard a guess why. #1 tailgating. Everyday I find someone at my bumper and when I pull over to let them by, they continue at the same speed as before. For the record I am far from being a slow driver. #2 Boring poorly designed roads. The roads are either long, straight and featureless, or the bend and dip furiously. Outside of town the limit is usually 100km/h and this can apply to 3-lane highways or bendy mountain roads where visibility is about 30 metres. #3 Drink drivers. Locals often quote distances in beers. "Toowoomba's a six pack from here" or "Ipswich is only a stubby away". If I remember correctly, over Easter this year , QLD police found 5% of all motorists they stopped to be over the limit. That's one in 20. At Easter. Just imagine what it's like at Christmas. #4 Kids in Vees. When you tax your car you are covered by CTP (compulsory third-party insurance). This is the same irrespective of your age or the car. The most popular cars are the Holden Commodore and the Ford Falcon, both of which have big 6 or 8 cylinder engines. Can you imagine how many teenage boys are running around in knackered old cars with the same power as a Porsche?

At this point I'd like to remind you that out here you have to drive to do just about anything.

If you like TV then you're in for a treat. If you thought Freeview and Sky were good you wait until you try Australian TV. No EPG on most channels. Few channels. Massive political bias. Tabloid reporting. Poor signal strength outside the major cities. We used to enjoy watching TV of an evening, but most channels are pretty much unwatchable. Only the ABC and SBS seem to be in the business for something other than profit, and neither is particularly well funded.

And finally, let's mention the drought. Outdoor showers and garden hoses are banned in many parts of SE QLD. Farming is suffering and it costs a LOT to import fresh produce from abroad. Food is getting expensive and water could become rationed.

Can you tell I regret moving here? My [Australian] wife desperately wanted to move back home [to Australia] to raise our young children and to be close to her elderly parents, but she's having second thoughts.

discobay

dimparcio,

It saddens me to read your post not out of sympathy but because most if not all of what you say is true. The fact of the matter is that you are in an area commonly known as an idyllic retirement resort. Resorts and residential convenience don't necessarily go together. Some of your gripes would not exist if you lived elsewhere. The driving complaints I totally agree with but coming from Essex it doesn't bother me as much as it does you.
It is admirable that you came out to Oz for your family and have (so far) stuck with it. I hope you find what is right for you and your family.

Tableland

Many of these complaints seem to be about things inherent to big countries like boring long roads for example. I have driven on roads in the US & Canada that disappear into the distance, straight as an arrow.

Other complaints are to be found everywhere like poor customer service. Some would say that customer service in the UK is so bad it goes through being comedy and becomes good.

The car thing, again, is hardly unique to Australia. Popular access to V6s and V8s started life in the US, where it continues unabated, and all across Canada. These engines are popular because you don't want to drive across Texas or Ontario or Western Australia in a 1.2 Nova because it's not up to the job.

TV. A recurring thing on these forums is Brits in Australia reporting how poor the TV is. It strikes me that the British are totally dependent on TV through most of the British winter, and have devleped an addiction to it. When placed in a situation with crap TV, they are at a loss.

As for drought, Australia has heavy and long droughts several times a century and always has done. My advice is: don't move to Australia if you think you will have a problem living in a hot dry country.

Vegemite

"When placed in a situation with crap TV, they are at a loss".

lol. Or in my experience, when every crossword in their crossword book has been completed. Who really wants to explore an Australian tropical deserted island when you can be at home thinking up a 7 letter word that ryhymes with "boring"?

Each to their own, but I know what I'd rather be doing!

Tableland

Snoring, right?

Vegemite

hee hee, Yep, probably!! Clever post!

Babycatcher

Dimparcio,
I am sorry to hear that you are having what sounds like a horrible experience.I do thank you for your input but as others have commented I think alot of your gripe is to do with your location and typical of a large country. I have spent time in the US and they all applied to there too.
As for your customer service experience I have heard this, but like I said I can only tell you my experience (I didn't have to use call centres or banks) and I meant that the manner people used was friendly and efficient everywhere that I visited.
Not worried about tv too much I only watch a couple of crappy shows and they have them. Quite happy to make do with dvds on those night that I need a relaxing night in.
Anyway whatever you choose to do I hope you will be happy...

themerlin

That could be why the road toll is higher, becuase you are in the car more.
People always comment on the price of petrol when the visit, I point out it might be half the price but you have to drive twice as much

Customer service ? I think people mistake fake friendliness for customer service