Refund of UK Tax withheld from UK Pension Lump Sum
Jun 13th 2015, 1:26 am
#1
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Joined: Jun 2015
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Refund of UK Tax withheld from UK Pension Lump Sum
I was due a lump sum payment from a UK Pension. I forgot to notify the UK Pensions Service not to withhold income tax, which they duly did, and I am now claiming a refund. I have lived in the USA since 1980.
After conflicting instructions on what form to use, I was told by a senior HM Revenue tax specialist to use Form R43, which I completed and sent off in March 2015.
I phoned the UK today and was told by another HM Revenue tax specialist that I had used the wrong form. He told me that I should use form US-Individual-2002 and reference Article 17. This form asks me to fill in all my information about income from US and UK pensions, send it to the IRS in Philadelphia (with a processing fee of $85) and they will stamp it and send it to HM Revenue, thus telling the UK tax people that it is OK to refund the tax previously withheld. I am told that this can take up to 6 months.
This seemed a bit strange to me and I did some research and found a couple of documents that give me hope that I will be able to challenge this.
1. HM Revenue and Customs, Help Sheet 304, titled “Non-residents – relief under Double Taxation Agreements”states on page 3 that
Special case – the United States of America
Special rules apply where the other country is the United States of America (US), if you are claiming to be a resident of the US. Statements concerning residence should not normally be sought from the US Internal Revenue Service. This is because the US operates a special system whereby it taxes its ‘citizens’ on their worldwide income, wherever they may be resident.
2. R43 Notes (2015) states
Relief under a Double Taxation Treaty
If you are a resident of a country which has Double Taxation (DT) Treaty with the UK, you maybe able to apply for some of your income to be paid with no UK tax (or a reduced rate of UK tax) taken off. The types of UK income for which this can usually be done are pensions, incomes or royalties.
Also R43 Notes has 3 sections, 3a, 3i and 3j. These sections list countries which must supply a “Certificate Of Residence” so that you can claim a refund. The USA is not listed in any of these 3 lists, which to me, supports the statement of #1 above - Special case – the United States of America.
I am hoping that someone out there knows a lot more about this topic than I do, and can advise me if my approach is correct or not.
Thanks in advance
John M
After conflicting instructions on what form to use, I was told by a senior HM Revenue tax specialist to use Form R43, which I completed and sent off in March 2015.
I phoned the UK today and was told by another HM Revenue tax specialist that I had used the wrong form. He told me that I should use form US-Individual-2002 and reference Article 17. This form asks me to fill in all my information about income from US and UK pensions, send it to the IRS in Philadelphia (with a processing fee of $85) and they will stamp it and send it to HM Revenue, thus telling the UK tax people that it is OK to refund the tax previously withheld. I am told that this can take up to 6 months.
This seemed a bit strange to me and I did some research and found a couple of documents that give me hope that I will be able to challenge this.
1. HM Revenue and Customs, Help Sheet 304, titled “Non-residents – relief under Double Taxation Agreements”states on page 3 that
Special case – the United States of America
Special rules apply where the other country is the United States of America (US), if you are claiming to be a resident of the US. Statements concerning residence should not normally be sought from the US Internal Revenue Service. This is because the US operates a special system whereby it taxes its ‘citizens’ on their worldwide income, wherever they may be resident.
2. R43 Notes (2015) states
Relief under a Double Taxation Treaty
If you are a resident of a country which has Double Taxation (DT) Treaty with the UK, you maybe able to apply for some of your income to be paid with no UK tax (or a reduced rate of UK tax) taken off. The types of UK income for which this can usually be done are pensions, incomes or royalties.
Also R43 Notes has 3 sections, 3a, 3i and 3j. These sections list countries which must supply a “Certificate Of Residence” so that you can claim a refund. The USA is not listed in any of these 3 lists, which to me, supports the statement of #1 above - Special case – the United States of America.
I am hoping that someone out there knows a lot more about this topic than I do, and can advise me if my approach is correct or not.
Thanks in advance
John M
Last edited by jam1967; Jun 13th 2015 at 1:39 am. Reason: Improvement
Jun 17th 2015, 3:19 am
#2
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 592
Re: Refund of UK Tax withheld from UK Pension Lump Sum
I am not a tax specialst in the USA but can relay that what is indicated above matches the processes in Australia that you have to complete forms with our Tax office and they submit it to HMRC so that it is noted that Tax is payable only in OZ.
Whilst the above research indicates that your are probably correct - the issue is one where you are dealing with your Revenue Department and that it may simply be easier to submit to their requirements and get them to provide the full requirements in order to achieve the same outcomes- whether required or not!
If not what you may find is simply you will end up fighting them for a long time or wasting a lot of energy/time in doing so. At the end of the day if they simply refused to do it regardless of what you tell them then you will have no other choice but to do what they are telling you.
I hope that helps you.
Whilst the above research indicates that your are probably correct - the issue is one where you are dealing with your Revenue Department and that it may simply be easier to submit to their requirements and get them to provide the full requirements in order to achieve the same outcomes- whether required or not!
If not what you may find is simply you will end up fighting them for a long time or wasting a lot of energy/time in doing so. At the end of the day if they simply refused to do it regardless of what you tell them then you will have no other choice but to do what they are telling you.
I hope that helps you.
