scot47

I wonder if anyone out there still thinks Erdogan is a nice guy.

BEVS

Do you want this here please Scot47 , or should it go to TIO where more people might commentate on the subject matter ?

scot47

Ok. i am always slightly bewildered about where things should go A reflection of the clutter in my own place ! Taxonomy and tidiness are alien to me.

Gordon Barlow

Compared to whom, Scot? I don't think anybody is a nice guy who is content to order and monitor the slaughter of people who happen to belong to a foreign tribe. That includes the leaders of every NATO nation, for a start. They're all cruel bastards, and I doubt that Erdogan is any worse. What do you reckon?

scot47

NATO has been waging war in Afghanistan since 2001. No sign of an end to that. Gordon is right. Wickedness is all around us.

Gordon Barlow

Yes, times have changed since The Good Olde Days when it was considered honourable to join the British Army to defend the borders of the British Empire. Britain and its colonies put up war memorials for those gallant soldiers. I have some of a great-uncle's medals that he got for slaughtering native tribesmen in Nigeria in 1902. No human-rights goody-goodies back then, to wring their hands over "war crimes". These days the only war-crimes recognised as such are those committed by the West's victims. Sigh...

Seven or eight years ago, in a personal blog-cum-journal, I reported some of my travel adventures, including this extract below. (Sadly, house rules don't allow me to link to any specific post in that blog, but I think it's OK to include this brief extract in italics below): What is relevant to this topic is that one reader took me to task for describing the ANZAC soldiers as "invaders". Of course from a Turkish perspective, that's exactly what they were. From a Turkish perspective, Erdogan is the nation's democratically elected President.

Turkey was immensely kind to us. Someone reckoned that being Australian must have helped, with the Turks feeling superior because their army had beaten back the ANZAC invaders in 1915 at Gallipoli. But most of the people we mixed with would never have heard of the invasion. In a town halfway to Mount Ararat we were intercepted in the street while looking for a cheap hotel, and pressed to stay in a private home. The small children were woken up and brought to meet us, and we slept in a bed still warm from their bodies. (Some things you just can’t argue about.)

scot47

I too have been the beneficiary of great personal kindness from complete strangers in some far-off places. Rural Africa, Poland, Bulgaria, Germany, the Hejaz.. Only 20 years after the end of WW2 i was impressed by the help ordinary people in Germany gave me as I hitched back from Passau to the Channel. And by the welcome from Palestinian colleagues when I went to teach in Al- Mamluka Al-Arabia Al-Saudiya.

In my old age, back in my native Scotland I try to show the same kindness to foreigners in our midst.

And to discourage contact with the Neo-Ottoman State of Turkey.

Gordon Barlow

I wouldn't go quite that far, Scot! I would always encourage people to visit the country, to see for themselves how wonderfully different the natives are from their rulers. Much as you and I saw for ourselves how different the people of the Soviet bloc were from their leaders' reputations. I also encourage people to visit the Turkish-occupied part of Cyprus, and even the Israeli-occupied part of Palestine, if they can. That's probably a bit naughty of me, but I think the visitors will broaden their education by those visits, as we broadened our educations.

spouse of scouse

If this story is factual, then Erdogan/Turkish officials could have done better...
British counter-terror police have scrambled to Heathrow airport to arrest a suspect after only learning that he had been deported from Turkey while his plane was in the air.​​​​​​​
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...error-offences

Gordon Barlow

Oh, I'm sure it is factual, spouse. This extract from The Guardian's report gives the background. And I guess that as long as the jihadis who left the UK haven't destroyed their UK passports, Britain is obliged to take them back. Seems reasonable, I have to say.

Ankara has long voiced frustration with its European allies for refusing to take their citizens home. However, Turkish officials have expressed a new-found determination to deport foreign jihadists after facing international condemnation over the attack on western-backed Kurdish-led forces over the border in Syria, which Ankara considers a terror group.

Speaking to reporters earlier this week, the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, threatened to release all of its jailed foreign militants and send them to Europe.“You should revise your stance towards Turkey, which at the moment holds so many Isis members in prison and at the same time controls those in Syria,” Erdogan said, addressing European countries.

“These gates will open and these Isis members who have started to be sent to you will continue to be sent. Then you can take care of your own problem.”

spouse of scouse

Oh I don't disagree Gordon. Just wondered if the complete lack of notification that he'd be on that plane was an oversight or deliberate.

Gordon Barlow

Deliberate, is my guess! He would be trying to get Britain to take his threat seriously.

philat98

Turkey under Erdogan seems well able to get rid of people it doesn't like. Numerous journalists dead, the strange suicide of Jacky Sutton and now the death of James Le Mesurier just to name a few.
Here is a list of journalists killed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...lled_in_Turkey

Gordon Barlow

He very probably is a nasty piece of work. But getting rid of people he doesn't like is a common trait in national leaders - as witness the NATO killings I referred to before. It happens in the best of circles. From many reports, it doesn't pay to get on the wrong side of Hillary Clinton, either! Google has plenty of links on that topic.

As for Le Mesurier, he founded the "White Helmets" - which is an extremely dubious anti-government organisation in Syria, allegedly sponsored by American and Israeli intelligence agencies. Plenty of links about that, too. Here's one of them.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...er-gets-crossd

philat98

Thats an interesting story about Philip Cross and Wikipedia. Probably these groups are active all over the internet.
Le Mesurier's career path from soldier, private security operator to White Helmets boss seems a bit suspicious. A lot of cash involved too. Turkey could have just asked him to leave the country.