Pulaski

SultanOfSwing

I won't laugh at them (not least because Northern Ireland still has to get past the playoff round), but as involved in soccer as I am out here and the growing interest I see year after year I just couldn't believe that one.

Maste

I'm surprised too. I'm also surprised at these sudden football experts who are saying there current set up is failing I mean, I agree there set up sucks, but all these 'experts' and fans who are calling for reform of the structure from the grass roots levels aren't suggesting any actual changes

SultanOfSwing

I mean, the US did make it to the quarter finals in 2002 under the current setup (also under the current coach), and Klinsmann gave the team a decent run, too. The players are there, it just didn't come together for some reason in this run.

Maste

That's what I mean. The system isn't too bad as it currently is. Just needs some fine tuning and tweaking.

My thinking is they are probably currently losing a lot of potentially brilliant players who just aren't suitable to college. For example, I couldn't imagine Rooney coming through in the system they have here. So I think they just need some sort of youth set up that isn't geared towards college soccer to run alongside the current set up, so as not to lose out on players who aren't studious.

SultanOfSwing

It's a combination of that and the fact that soccer will always lose out to football and basketball (and to a lesser extent baseball) at the college level, and that's where the drop off is.

The 'Major League' format works for the big four because that's how they were set up from the beginning. They sort of tried to shoehorn soccer in there when it doesn't quite fit the mould. They don't necessarily need to scrap MLS and start a pyramid, but some kind of youth system that helps take at least some of the focus off college teams, and possibly a way to get young and promising players into academies and eventually teams in Europe might help as well. Pulisic seems to be working out well in Germany, for example.

Marc_ely

I think the good youth players are just allround good sports players, so some will go off and choose other college sports that are seen as "proper" sports to Americans, rather than football(soccer).
In our city of 100k people over 2k kids play in AYSO every week. And then there are the club level players on top of that. There really should be a massive pool of talent available when you expand that across the country.

Maste

That's what I mean. They do need something that isn't focused on getting scholarships and into teams at the college level. Sure that's great, but not every kid wants that. Pulisic is a great player in my opinion. The fact the USA have players like him, Dempsey and Howard succeed in Europe shows they do have the talent pool, they just need to develop something that will work.

SultanOfSwing

I coached AYSO for a few years back when my son played - there are a ton of really good players. High school teams usually have a lot of talent as well.

But you're right that when they get to college, they will go off and play baseball or football and soccer becomes a nice memory for them. Women's soccer is a much bigger college sport than men's, as reflected in the international success of the US Women's National Team in the last 20-30 years.

The talent exists, and somewhere the US has a potential semi-final worthy team, but the challenge is bringing them all together at the right time. I think it'll happen eventually, in the next 50 years maybe. Soccer is still growing in popularity even with this setback.

I've been keeping an eye on Pulisic since I saw a little bit about him on the pre-game show before a Bayern-Dortmund game on TV recently. He's a great example of the kind of talent that exists for the game here.

Maste

Me too. It should be making those in charge of US soccer asking and brainstorming what do we do to get more players of that standard. Hopefully things change, with the pool they have, the US could become a good, dominant team easily.

SultanOfSwing

It'll happen in time. The US is still playing catch up and unfortunately at the moment there are still too many people who just don't care about soccer here, or they see it as something for kids to play until they get to college.

This is even though they (in my opinion) hosted a good World Cup in 1994 and have had whisperings and hints of a strong team for the last 25 years.

Pulaski

At the moment I think any dramatic growth of college level soccer is going to depend on how big the issue of brain damage becomes for football, AND the introduction of some sort of draft from college teams into the pro soccer league.

I am fairly sure that the peculiar habit of signing all players to the organizing body is stifling growth and development of teams too.

SultanOfSwing

MLS is set up kind of weird in that respect.

Though concussions in football are already a big deal - would be interesting to see how that plays in. Soccer has a mountain to climb to compete with football and basketball at the college level for relevance though.

Oakvillian

From north of the border, it mostly seems to be about money. How many soccer scholarships are available for college players, as compared to football, baseball or other sports? I know two young women from my town who are now enjoying full-ride scholarships at US universities on the strength of their soccer - I think this is probably a reflection of what SoS said up-thread about the women's game having a much higher profile at college level than it does for men.

Of course, the entire entertainment-franchise nature of the MLS structure makes it more difficult to bring on talent except through the college system - there aren't the club academies, nor the giant-killing exploits of competitions like the early rounds of the FA Cup, to give the non-College-bound kids something to aim for. And without a structure of promotion and relegation within top-flight soccer, neither is there a chance for a solid player in a second-tier side to suddenly find himself sharing a stage with the superstars.

kimilseung

It strikes me that football is in long term decline due to falling numbers of kids being involved because of concerns of health and injury. Soccer seem to be the beneficiary. Changing demographic also points to a similar shift and outcome.