Why Americans don't like Obamacare
#346
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,605
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
Anyway, there's no point carrying on with this. When I cite papers or studies it's "studies, schmudies", but when somebody cites one that supports gun control, it's gospel. This isn't a discussion, it's a row and I've got ammo to hand-load.
#348
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
Well, this is what happened in these parts to someone who believed this to be the case.
http://www.ktvz.com/news/26474022/detail.html
http://www.ktvz.com/news/26474022/detail.html
#349
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
And Washington DC is the capital city of the United States of America! By all accounts here in this thread it makes the United Kingdom capital city of London look as serenely law abiding and as peaceful as a nunnery on a quiet day! Many people here in the UK genuinely believe that many Americans can't sleep properly in their beds at night unless they have a gun located underneath their pillows. Personally I don't believe that to be the case......or do I?
That's as bad as me saying that many Americans believe that every British citizen speaks with a thick accent that sounds like Eliza Doolittle (well the ones that have seen My Fair Lady.) Personally I'm a bit wary (especially since I've lived in the UK and my husband doesn't have a cockney accent.) But then again who am I to argue with people who have no knowledge of the US except what they've seen on CSI.
#350
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
Damn - I guess I'll never get an answer to my question about how the teachers will actually handle the carrying of a gun in the classroom, from a 'security' perspective. I have visions of the teachers leaving their gun on their desk, sticking out of their bag, or hanging off their belt, and some adventurous 9 year old kid picking it up and 'playing with it' ... oh well ...
#351
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
In England and Wales, there were 39 homicides attributed to shooting in 2008-9. http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb0110.pdf In 2009, the
#352
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
When I want crime data, I go to credible sources for crime data, rather than hide behind the op-ed pieces of fellow travelers inside the echo chamber. You can't hope to educate yourself if you only seek out those who are predisposed to agree with you, whilst ignoring the sources for the data itself.
The data is what is -- annual English and Welsh gun homicides are in the mid-double digits, while US gun homicides are in the high quadruple digits. The gap between these two well exceeds the difference in population, leading necessarily to the conclusion that the US murder rate that is attributable to firearms is vastly higher than that of England and Wales. You can't possibly refute this or rationalize it away.
Guns make it easier for criminals to be criminals and for the fence sitters to cross the fence. If guns didn't make the job of killing easier and more efficient, then there wouldn't be much reason for armies to bother to carry them in the first place.
#353
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
Damn - I guess I'll never get an answer to my question about how the teachers will actually handle the carrying of a gun in the classroom, from a 'security' perspective. I have visions of the teachers leaving their gun on their desk, sticking out of their bag, or hanging off their belt, and some adventurous 9 year old kid picking it up and 'playing with it' ... oh well ...
Last edited by Sally Redux; Jan 17th 2011 at 10:54 pm.
#354
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
Damn - I guess I'll never get an answer to my question about how the teachers will actually handle the carrying of a gun in the classroom, from a 'security' perspective. I have visions of the teachers leaving their gun on their desk, sticking out of their bag, or hanging off their belt, and some adventurous 9 year old kid picking it up and 'playing with it' ... oh well ...
I'm not sure how she was planning to carry. Or even how it turned out.
How's that for a lame post?
#355
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,605
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
Citing biased editorials from a Tier 4 law school review and the Torygraph is worth of criticism.
When I want crime data, I go to credible sources for crime data, rather than hide behind the op-ed pieces of fellow travelers inside the echo chamber. You can't hope to educate yourself if you only seek out those who are predisposed to agree with you, whilst ignoring the sources for the data itself.
When I want crime data, I go to credible sources for crime data, rather than hide behind the op-ed pieces of fellow travelers inside the echo chamber. You can't hope to educate yourself if you only seek out those who are predisposed to agree with you, whilst ignoring the sources for the data itself.
For the second time - I neither know nor care what your beef is, but lay off the personal insults.
#356
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,605
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
And you'd be free to make that choice.
That's the big difference between the two sides in this row. One side wants to expand freedoms, the other side seeks every opportunity to restrict them.
Do what now? Nobody has suggested that, but I guess it's understandable that folks whose world view is based upon the idea that everything which is not forbidden is compulsory and everything which is not compulsory is forbidden might jump to that conclusion.
How about we leave grown ups alone to make their own decisions? Not everything has to be micro-managed by dictat.
That's the big difference between the two sides in this row. One side wants to expand freedoms, the other side seeks every opportunity to restrict them.
How about we leave grown ups alone to make their own decisions? Not everything has to be micro-managed by dictat.
#357
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
Simplification can only be a good thing, and consistency is also a good thing. That's not restricting people, not making anything harder or anything.
#358
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
To add to the variety of points made:
The local Sheriff is responsible for 'enforcing' the gun laws. This is where all breaks down - making sure people are responsible.
Mental Health, the system is more like, "not my problem."
-hastonian
The local Sheriff is responsible for 'enforcing' the gun laws. This is where all breaks down - making sure people are responsible.
Mental Health, the system is more like, "not my problem."
-hastonian
#359
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,605
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
The first, and largest group, are "will issue" states. That means, if you've got no convictions, mental illness etc, they have to give you a permit.
The second, are "may issue" states. That means permits are discretionary and, effectively, you only get one if you're well connected.
The third group is the few states where concealed carry is illegal. Period.
So, by your argument, it would be to the good for all states to become "will issue" states, right? Or is that not what you meant?
#360
Re: Why Americans don't like Obamacare
Complaining about personal insults ...
While hurling them in the same thread ...
While hurling them in the same thread ...