Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

I guess it doesn't matter, as the goal here is not to avoid getting caught but instead to avoid causing harm to others.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

In Scotland they just banned / discouraged visiting anyone other than your immediate family. Would kind of kill the point of traveling.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-54254694

We have a mandatory trip to Asia next Summer but other than that we have put off all travel. Will stay home for Christmas.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

I can only speak for what happens in New York State. I was required to voluntarily comply with a request to quarantine, otherwise they would have obtained a court order. Penalties are stiff, imprisonment or a hefty fine. The Covid team at my county health department checked in on me by phone twice a day for fourteen days. Presumably if they had any suspicion I’d broken the terms of the quarantine they’d have sent the police around to check up on me.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

All the best to your DIL; I wish her a full and speedy recovery. My sister (whom I lost in May, and whose funeral I attended via video link to avoid risk to myself and the family from picking up germs traveling to the UK) was the senior staff nurse in casualty (as they called it in those days) at the BRI during the smallpox outbreak in the early sixties.

To the OP, now is not the time to think about being in the UK for Christmas. Quarantining shouldn't mean staying in a room at your family home, it should mean being isolated in a hotel room. Once you travel, you bring the risk of infection to those you love at both ends of the trip.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Sorry to read about your DIL Mr L. Medical staff are continuously putting themselves at great risk during this time. I hope she makes a full recovery soon.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Much appreciated, she does seem to be on the mend.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Thank you both very much.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Ultimately it comes down to a question of if you lived in the UK now, would you go round for Christmas as normal? If the answer is yes then fly over, quarantine for a couple weeks in isolation, then bash on. Millions who already live in the same country and are as at risk at that point (following quarantine) will no doubt be converging at a relatives for Xmas.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

And this sort of asinine logic is why the daily infection rate in the UK is growing exponentially at the moment, busting through 6,000 new cases/day yesterday (Wednesday). Given the exponential growth curve, and that the British government thinks that telling pubs to close at 10pm is a helpful additional control to slow the spread, :blink: it is pretty much certain that the second wave will top-out at over 10,000 cases/day, and as was predicted by medical experts in the UK a couple of days ago, unless spread is brought under control PDQ it is going to be 50,000 cases per day by mid October.

BTW quarantining for 14 days isn't some magic ritual that protects you from catching covid, it is because you have been engaging in a behaviour that has exposed you to a significantly elevated risk of having caught the disease, and if you have caught it, quarantining won't help, it just reduces the risk of you passing it to someone else during your asymptomatic phase.

As my mother told me when I was a child, just because "everyone else" is doing something stupid doesn't mean you should do it too! :rolleyes:

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Completely aware of your last paragraph. I'd assume if someone falls ill during quarantine they'll react according and change plans.

My point was after those 14 days, your basically running the same risk by doing anything the same as everyone else living there. What those people are doing already is a different discussion. The OP was questioning the travel part, for which I pointed out how that aspect can be mitigated to a degree.

It's the same as if someone was choosing (or indeed forced) to return home. At some point, you just become local again and the fact you used to live in another country weeks ago is no longer relevant.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Even within the UK many areas have canceled family gatherings, even between just 2 households. All of Scotland, most of the NE in England and several areas of Wales already do not allow 2 households to mix indoors. This is unlikely to change before Christmas and more areas could increase restrictions in line with Scotland.

My wife's sister is currently staying with us, 1 week through a 3 week stay, and when she returns to Edinburgh we don't expect to be able to see her before next year. If N. Yorkshire implements the same restrictions currently in place in the counties immediately north of us within the next 2 weeks then she will have to leave early.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/co...ds-and-family/

https://www.northumberland.gov.uk/co...ronavirus.aspx

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

If you don't mind me asking, what is classed as MANDATORY/ESSENTIAL in your view with regards to your trip to Asia? Only curious because the majority on this discussion board are saying that they would not travel whatsoever unless absolutely critical. Hopefully, the situation will have improved by next summer.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Hi P6, I think Moi is addressing her question to you. :unsure:

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

For me I am thinking they could include:
- court appearance
- non elective medical care that could not be provided locally and what it is treating is critical, unlikely given services available in NYC metro.
- maybe a work related trip if job depended on it, and $m’s were on the line but that’s very unlikely, I have not approved a single employee trip since Feb, and if it was that essential I would not be flying comercial...

reasons I would not risk traveling for:
- visiting friends or family
- holiday
- non essential work trip

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Please don't go. Whilst you may live in a low risk area, you will be getting on a plane for some period of time, exposed to all kinds of people from all over the place. There is no way to know if you are contagious if you are asymptomatic. Short of taking a test just before you flight and when you arrive I can't see how you can guarantee you are not going to bring covid to UK. In addition UK is starting to experience a surge in cases and is beginning to lock down parts of the country. UK is responding to Covid in typical British fashion by implementing all sorts of petty hard to understand and follow rules that are constantly changing. If you plan to go for 2 weeks you should plan to be there 2 months. A friend of mine was stuck in China for 4 months albeit that was a few months ago now. Even in the case of a death in the family I would not go.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

+1

This week they released a Covid track and trace phone app. It alerts you when you are close to someone who understands the rules in the area you are in.*




*That was a joke.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

My current working assumption is that I almost certainly won't be even *thinking* about international travel any time before the end of *next* year.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

I could be wrong, but the only people currently being admitted to the US are US Citizens and LPRs. That's probably why.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

This is incorrect. There are restrictions on non USC/LPRs entry from certain locations (Schengen Area, UK/IE, China, Brazil, Iran) but if you have not been in these countries in the last 14 days then you are allowed entry (providing you meet all other usual entry requirements of course).

I am on L1 and left the US for 5 weeks and returned a few weeks ago.
​​

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

To be fair, if I was not a USC, I probably not risk travel outside of the US. This administration has previously banned non USCs from coming in. With covid, as we have seen, things can change very fast. We had some German friends that almost did not get back in March, because the US banned all flights.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Non USCs still are banned from entry, aren't they? With a handful of exceptions.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

I have decided to "hold off" going in the next 2/3 months. Bit of a bummer, but what are you going to do. We will wait until things are better and possibly have my mum fly over here when it is over (whenever that will be). My son's HS had a confirmed case within a week of going back to school in person. The virus starts to hit home when you know it can directly affect you or those close to you.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

We booked a flight back to the UK for Christmas in Feb. We have been following the covid situation over the summer with fingers crossed but are now pretty much resigned to not seeing families for at least another year

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

For those who are considering flying....last March my daughter flew back from the UK. A few days later she was informed that a passenger who was sitting near her had tested positive for Covid. They contacted passengers sat within 3 rows of the sick passenger. The passenger died. I have no idea if he infected anyone on the plane.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

I realise this is going to be an unpopular view, but we're booked to return home for Christmas and will be risking it, and we may try and even squeeze in another short trip home before then.

We had our first child back in April and with our families all back in the UK, it has been an extremely difficult few months emotionally to the point where our (particularly my wife's) mental health has been suffering. I've been reading a lot of studies on the current safety of air travel and it seems like as with everything, it's about managing your own risk. The horror stories of the "super spreader" flights were all back in Feb/March before the new safety regs were put in place and the mandatory masks, HEPA air filters, and socially distanced seating make me feel comfortable enough to make a journey. I looked at the seat map for a flight from Miami to London this week and there were literally less than 10 passengers on board, so it will be easy to keep a safe distance from others. We can quarantine during our time in the UK and again when we're back in the US so I believe the risk is manageable.

*puts hard-hat on to prepare for inevitable onslaught*

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

No "onslaught" from me, but your reports of SD on planes and mandatory masks may be wide of the mark, and you won't know for sure until you board the plane. There have been a number of "horror stories" of crowded flights and passengers paying lip-service to mask wearing - taking them off at every opportunity and not replacing them unless asked.

As I posted earlier I am not inclined to fly anyway, but everything I have seen suggests that it is a crap-shoot as to how much SD you get and whether or not your fellow passengers are covidiots who don't buy in to the need for masks. I suspect that the airlines are anticipating a significant increase in passengers for the flights over the Christmas period, compared to the seat map that you saw for this week. But good luck with your choice. :unsure:

BTW I am puzzled by your quarantine comment - it looks like you think quarantining is risk mitigation (saying "We can quarantine .... so I believe the risk is manageable", you connected "quarantining" to "manageable risk" ), but quaranting won't help you at all, it only reduces the risk of you passing the disease to someone else.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Are you dual UK/US citizens or do you have a green cards? With another wave likely I assume there could be more travel restrictions, and although airlines are giving credits and allowing changes they are tying hard not to give refunds. Even as a dual citizen, all CV-19 concerns aside my other concern now would be traveling somewhere and not being able to get back for an extended period of time, although if you are taking your whole family and have somewhere to stay and can work remotely maybe that’s less of a concern.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Even by Christmas, I don't foresee the fights being substantially busier because there are just so few categories of people that can actually travel even if they wanted to.

The last sentence was just poor wording on my part, risk mitigation and quarantine are separate points.

I believe the risk during travel can be mitigated by keeping clear of people, and we are fortunate enough to be able to quarantine upon return to the US without issue.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

We're both visa holders however we're parents of a USC so we can enter the US freely with the child as the guardians.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

this illustrates part of why I won t travel. Me (most people) not being in the mix helps those who (feel they) have no choice, imo mental health might be one of the only reasons to go anywhere. But it also may not solve the issue.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

No, and they never have been banned from entry.

There are restrictions on non USC/LPRs entry from certain locations (Schengen Area, UK/IE, China, Brazil, Iran) but if you have not been in these countries in the last 14 days then you are allowed entry (providing you meet all other usual entry requirements of course).

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

I didn’t realise having a USC child gave you right of entry to the US.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Can you point to the legislation that says that?

If that is so there would be a great many people considered to be in the country illegally, who in fact would be legal.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

I'm only talking about entering the US in the context of the Covid travel ban, not more broadly.

My L1 visa would currently not permit me entrance to the US from the UK. However, I would be allowed to return if I have my child with me as they are a USC who is under 21 and I am the legal guardian. Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.

(a) Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to:

(i) any lawful permanent resident of the United States;

(ii) any alien who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident;

(iii) any alien who is the parent or legal guardian of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident is unmarried and under the age of 21;

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

My kids and I are going round in circles trying to figure out Christmas plans.
Eldest daughter is in Seattle, middle son in Edinburgh and littlest in Ottawa and I'm in Texas...
littlest has to come back at Christmas because her dorms close up so she will have 2 weeks of quarantine ( real quarantine = must stay in dorm room with food delivered to her) when she returns to Canada in January no matter where we all meet up.
Son will have quarantine if he comes back here.
Me and 2 daughters will have quarantine if we go to the UK....

my son hasn't seen any of us since end of February and he's been through a lot - for his mental wellbeing he needs to be with his family.
We've been talking it through and can't come up with a good plan.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

OK, that wasn't quite the way I understood what you said.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

I always found Christmas so stressful with all the family in one place. There was always one person that kicked some inappropriate conversation.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

I was being UK-centric it seems, since I thought that is what we were talking about. UK citizens do still seem to be barred.

I am unlikely to be able to see my son at Christmas. I haven't seen him since last Christmas (he's a student in the UK, I'm in the US). His spring holiday here was cancelled for obvious reasons,, and my summer trip there for the same. We have tickets for him and his UK girlfriend to come for Christmas, but it seems likely she will still be barred and that quarantine will still be on in both countries which makes travel impractical even for him, a dual citizen.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

Christmas is pretty much the busiest travel time of the year - hence the high airfares around it in normal years. Even with covid, I would expect demand for transatlantic to be a lot higher than it is right now.

Re: Who else is concerned about trip to UK for Christmas with family?
 

We should have a big BE Christmas party for all of us left alone over the holidays! I would normally go home over Thanksgiving, but I'm definitely not going anywhere near Oz any time soon. It's not even clear when flights will be readily available, much less when I will feel like sitting in planes for 20+ hours.