Where is the anger?

Old Sep 16th 2021, 6:58 pm
  #211  
 
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by SimonLes View Post
Fortunately their numbers are relatively small so hospitals are able to handle that.
You know that State just north of you. It's where there are virtually no ICU or general hospital beds left. Refrigerated trailers are being sent to hospitals because the morgues are full, the National Guard is in the hospitals because there isn't enough normal medical staff to handle it. Labor Day weekend the State were asking people to be careful and avoid dangerous activity because the hospitals were so full of COVID patients they would not be able to handle normal emergencies.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 6:59 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Where on earth did you get that idea?

The immunity induced by vaccination is "natural". It works by stimulating an immune response in your own immune system.

Yes, you can get infected if you are vaccinated. But you don't die.
Yep, I agree with you. You are not addressing my rebutal of your statement though. Your claim is that unvaccinated people are a sewer of virus mutations and vaccinated people are not. My point is that is incorrect, in fact the opposite is more likely.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:01 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

This should help clear up confusion on the "vaccines cause more mutations" confusion.

"What Causes Viruses to Mutate?Virus changes are associated with three things. First, sometimes a change in a virus is apure error.

“A good analogy about virus changes is that it’s like copying a manuscript and, at some point, you're going to have a typo,” Dr. Best says.

Another reason a virus might change is because of pressure from select cells in the body.

“This hypothesis emerged regarding some of the COVID-19 variants. It states if a virus infects a person who doesn’t have a very strong immune system, for example, someone with cancer, then the body is not able to clear the virus very well. Then the virus can say, ‘Hey, how are you going to attack me and make changes based on that?’,” Dr. Best says.

The creation of a vaccine for any new virus could also cause additional mutations.

“Let’s explain this concept a little further. Any virus will keep trying to change, so it can continue to spread. With all vaccines, the more quickly people get vaccinated the better. The slower vaccination happens, the higher the chance of having mutations in the virus and the appearance of more variants. And, as we are seeing with the delta variant, the more the virus can spread in the community."

In order to keep viruses in check, everyone must do their part by getting vaccinated, and scientists must work together around the world to track emerging variants."

https://www.unitypoint.org/article.a...e-1317a3396dd8



The idea that leaving people unvaccinated will cause more illness than vaccinating them is nonsense. But we knew that.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:01 pm
  #214  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
You know that State just north of you. It's where there are virtually no ICU or general hospital beds left. Refrigerated trailers are being sent to hospitals because the morgues are full, the National Guard is in the hospitals because there isn't enough normal medical staff to handle it. Labor Day weekend the State were asking people to be careful and avoid dangerous activity because the hospitals were so full of COVID patients they would not be able to handle normal emergencies.
Based on the current peak of hospitalizations and deaths? Compared with last winter and the the first peak? Boy, that is some seriously failure at the governmental level. How can they not be prepared for such a relatively small upsurge after everything that has happened? I am very angry at them.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:02 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by SimonLes View Post
Yep, I agree with you. You are not addressing my rebutal of your statement though. Your claim is that unvaccinated people are a sewer of virus mutations and vaccinated people are not. My point is that is incorrect, in fact the opposite is more likely.

See above.

It was not a rebuttal, it was misinformation based on a misunderstanding of how this works.

Edit to add additional information.

To reduce variants, you have to reduce infections. To reduce infections, you have to have vaccinations.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...ants-heres-how

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Sep 16th 2021 at 7:04 pm.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:03 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
I don't consider a vaccine mandate 'suffering' so I reject the premise of your question.



Tell that to anyone that attended public schooling.
More children have died from Pneumonia than Covid in the last 18 months,

All the vaccines required for children to date have been to protect children. This is not to protect children, it is to protect unvaccinated adults. If they get covid and die, that's on them
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:05 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by SimonLes View Post
More children have died from Pneumonia than Covid in the last 18 months,

All the vaccines required for children to date have been to protect children. This is not to protect children, it is to protect unvaccinated adults. If they get covid and die, that's on them

You are still ignoring the variant question.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:06 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
See above.

It was not a rebuttal, it was misinformation based on a misunderstanding of how this works.

Edit to add additional information.

To reduce variants, you have to reduce infections.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...ants-heres-how
Your premise is flimsy and hysterical. As I said, why doesnt this same logic apply to other viruses that we live with all the time?

Are you closing the borders? Or will the millions of unvaccinated people around the world continue to dictate your behavior and your attitude to others (but only those in the USA)
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:07 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

All the vaccines required for children to date have been to protect children.
I disagree. it's to protect all of us. Those child turn in to adults don't you know.

Or does smallpox not affect adults and I just didn't know it?

Are you closing the borders? Or will the millions of unvaccinated people around the world continue to dictate your behavior and your attitude to others (but only those in the USA)
I am on record on BE as in favor of a total suspension in cross border travel.

Last edited by civilservant; Sep 16th 2021 at 7:10 pm.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:10 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
You are still ignoring the variant question.
Nope you are. The logic tragically collapses when compared to every other virus and every other country. You can't control all the viruses, even if your premise is correct, that doesn't just apply to covid. and why does your anger to the unvaccinated only apply to US inhabitants. All it takes is one US citizen to come home from a trip to see family aborad where there are vaccinated variant factories and it's delta mk 2- you can't control this by getting angry with unvaccinated people in the US. Your though process has no mimiting principle and seems to ignore the whole of your life before 2019 when all these same issues were a factor but you seemed to get on just fine
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:11 pm
  #221  
 
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
This should help clear up confusion on the "vaccines cause more mutations" confusion.

"What Causes Viruses to Mutate?Virus changes are associated with three things. First, sometimes a change in a virus is apure error.

“A good analogy about virus changes is that it’s like copying a manuscript and, at some point, you're going to have a typo,” Dr. Best says.

Another reason a virus might change is because of pressure from select cells in the body.

“This hypothesis emerged regarding some of the COVID-19 variants. It states if a virus infects a person who doesn’t have a very strong immune system, for example, someone with cancer, then the body is not able to clear the virus very well. Then the virus can say, ‘Hey, how are you going to attack me and make changes based on that?’,” Dr. Best says.

The creation of a vaccine for any new virus could also cause additional mutations.

“Let’s explain this concept a little further. Any virus will keep trying to change, so it can continue to spread. With all vaccines, the more quickly people get vaccinated the better. The slower vaccination happens, the higher the chance of having mutations in the virus and the appearance of more variants. And, as we are seeing with the delta variant, the more the virus can spread in the community."

In order to keep viruses in check, everyone must do their part by getting vaccinated, and scientists must work together around the world to track emerging variants."

https://www.unitypoint.org/article.a...e-1317a3396dd8



The idea that leaving people unvaccinated will cause more illness than vaccinating them is nonsense. But we knew that.
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
See above.

It was not a rebuttal, it was misinformation based on a misunderstanding of how this works.

Edit to add additional information.

To reduce variants, you have to reduce infections. To reduce infections, you have to have vaccinations.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...ants-heres-how
Originally Posted by SimonLes View Post
Your premise is flimsy and hysterical. As I said, why doesnt this same logic apply to other viruses that we live with all the time?

Are you closing the borders? Or will the millions of unvaccinated people around the world continue to dictate your behavior and your attitude to others (but only those in the USA)

I don't think you mean premise.

Did you read the information in either of the links I provided? They address your misunderstanding.

Other viruses? You mean ones other than the ones we have eradicated or completely controlled by compulsory vaccinations, right? As for lockdowns, when was the last time we had to address a pandemic?

Covid has killed almost 5 million people worldwide, that we know of. How many would you like to die before you take measures?
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:13 pm
  #222  
 
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by SimonLes View Post
Nope you are. The logic tragically collapses when compared to every other virus and every other country. You can't control all the viruses, even if your premise is correct, that doesn't just apply to covid. and why does your anger to the unvaccinated only apply to US inhabitants. All it takes is one US citizen to come home from a trip to see family aborad where there are vaccinated variant factories and it's delta mk 2- you can't control this by getting angry with unvaccinated people in the US. Your though process has no mimiting principle and seems to ignore the whole of your life before 2019 when all these same issues were a factor but you seemed to get on just fine
I'm sorry, but this is just a rant that is very slight on medical fact. There's nothing more to really discuss here.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:14 pm
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
I disagree. it's to protect all of us. Those child turn in to adults don't you know.

Or does smallpox not affect adults and I just didn't know it?



I am on record on BE as in favor of a total suspension in cross border travel.
Small pox - 30% mortality rate

Deaths in children from Covid? Less than 400.

Hysteria.
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:15 pm
  #224  
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I'm sorry, but this is just a rant that is very slight on medical fact. There's nothing more to really discuss here.
Schooled.

Dismissed
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Old Sep 16th 2021, 7:17 pm
  #225  
 
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Default Re: Where is the anger?

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
You know that State just north of you. It's where there are virtually no ICU or general hospital beds left. Refrigerated trailers are being sent to hospitals because the morgues are full, the National Guard is in the hospitals because there isn't enough normal medical staff to handle it. Labor Day weekend the State were asking people to be careful and avoid dangerous activity because the hospitals were so full of COVID patients they would not be able to handle normal emergencies.

Lansbury, I'm afraid you are just being hysterical.
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