Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > USA > The Trailer Park
Reload this Page >

US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Old Dec 23rd 2019, 2:00 pm
  #61  
Deep in the woods of CT
 
Nutmegger's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,999
Nutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Full diplomatic immunity is limited to accredited staff and their families - those whose names appear on the diplomatic list. Technical and consular staff receive far more limited protection for actions carried out during the course of their duties, knocking someone off a motorcycle by driving on the wrong side of the road not being one of them. If she enjoyed that level of protection then they would’ve been no need to spirit her out of the country.
Why on earth should diplomatic immunity apply to something like dangerous driving that results in the death of an innocent person. Makes no sense and seems that it is time for an overhaul of these rules.
Nutmegger is offline  
Old Dec 23rd 2019, 3:01 pm
  #62  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: bute
Posts: 9,740
scot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

The case encapsulates the relationship between Washington and London. Master and servant.
scot47 is offline  
Old Dec 23rd 2019, 5:18 pm
  #63  
 
lansbury's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,962
lansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Originally Posted by materialcontroller

The guy is a US spook. They're not exactly known for parading their credentials openly, for rather obvious reasons.
That is also why I would be amazed if she is extradited. I cannot see anyway the Americans would want one of their intelligence officers put in a position where a foreign government has a lever over them. Well Mr Sacoolas do you want your wife to serve 14 years or would you prefer a suspended sentence. If you could just answer a few questions it can all be arranged.

lansbury is offline  
Old Dec 23rd 2019, 7:36 pm
  #64  
`
 
BEVS's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,595
BEVS has disabled reputation
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Full diplomatic immunity is limited to accredited staff and their families - those whose names appear on the diplomatic list. Technical and consular staff receive far more limited protection for actions carried out during the course of their duties, knocking someone off a motorcycle by driving on the wrong side of the road not being one of them. If she enjoyed that level of protection then they would’ve been no need to spirit her out of the country.
I've had mush head for a good 3 days now. Thank you for clearly writing the point I was trying to make.

I agree with Lansbury. She was spirited away to home turf because she/he did not have diplomatic protection but also because once there on home turf extradition would be more than unlikely.

BEVS is offline  
Old Dec 23rd 2019, 8:08 pm
  #65  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,851
Giantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

The "best" that can be hoped for at this point is that this has a negative impact on her husband's career as an overseas spy. That's hardly a satisfactory form of justice though.
Giantaxe is offline  
Old Dec 23rd 2019, 9:18 pm
  #66  
Concierge
 
spouse of scouse's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,100
spouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
The "best" that can be hoped for at this point is that this has a negative impact on her husband's career as an overseas spy. That's hardly a satisfactory form of justice though.
I have a bit of a different take on it, I don't think it should or could impact her husband's career. He was probably in favour of her leaving the country, he may even have requested that, but the responsibility is solely hers.

Unless she has no conscience at all she'll have to live the rest of her life with the memory of killing a young man, of evading any legal consequences, and of what that did to his family and friends. I guess that's a sort of justice on its own but it's not what his family want, his mum's said that she has a lot of sympathy for her. The only way for her to ease her conscience, and the only way for the young man's family to begin to recover, is for this to be dealt with in the correct legal manner. Very sadly, that's not going to happen.
spouse of scouse is offline  
Old Dec 23rd 2019, 9:53 pm
  #67  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
scrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

I cant recall did she stay at the scene or did she hit and run?
scrubbedexpat091 is offline  
Old Dec 23rd 2019, 10:04 pm
  #68  
Concierge
 
spouse of scouse's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,100
spouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
I cant recall did she stay at the scene or did she hit and run?
Reports from the time said she spoke to police at the scene so I guess she stayed. Why she wasn't arrested is anyone's guess.
spouse of scouse is offline  
Old Dec 23rd 2019, 10:41 pm
  #69  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
scrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Not being arrested right away doesnt seem odd to me, unless drunk or left the scene at least in Canada can take a few weeks to over a year for police to investigate and determine a cause and then reccomend charges if any are to be filed.

Do police arrest quicker in the UK generally?


Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
Reports from the time said she spoke to police at the scene so I guess she stayed. Why she wasn't arrested is anyone's guess.
scrubbedexpat091 is offline  
Old Dec 23rd 2019, 10:43 pm
  #70  
 
BritInParis's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,175
BritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Not being arrested right away doesnt seem odd to me, unless drunk or left the scene at least in Canada can take a few weeks to over a year for police to investigate and determine a cause and then reccomend charges if any are to be filed.

Do police arrest quicker in the UK generally?
No. She was interviewed at home later on as part of the investigation. Immunity was first mentioned at the point. By the time the FCO has denied a request for a waiver of immunity (which she later appeared not to have or had been incorrectly granted) she was already back in the US.
BritInParis is offline  
Old Dec 24th 2019, 12:39 am
  #71  
Concierge
 
spouse of scouse's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,100
spouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond reputespouse of scouse has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Not being arrested right away doesnt seem odd to me, unless drunk or left the scene at least in Canada can take a few weeks to over a year for police to investigate and determine a cause and then reccomend charges if any are to be filed.

Do police arrest quicker in the UK generally?
I should watch what I say, by arrested I meant taken to the cop shop. Apparently she spoke with police at the scene and was given a breathalyser test. I don't know UK police procedure in such cases, but I'm skeptical that an 'ordinary' person would be allowed to leave the scene when they'd admitted to causing a death by dangerous driving. I'd have thought it'd at least be an appearance before a magistrate and then bailed to appear in court at a later date. But she was allowed to leave and given the courtesy of a home visit.
spouse of scouse is offline  
Old Dec 24th 2019, 1:06 am
  #72  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 455
TexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond reputeTexanScot has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
I'm skeptical that an 'ordinary' person would be allowed to leave the scene when they'd admitted to causing a death by dangerous driving.
Did she actually admit that at the scene though?

I don't think she was ever charged whilst in the UK, and Causing Death by Dangerous Driving seems like overcharging by CPS purely to justify an extradition.

The case is an open and shut example of Causing Death by Careless Driving, which is what I suspect they will drop the charges down to if she ever actually returns to the UK.
TexanScot is offline  
Old Dec 24th 2019, 4:38 am
  #73  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
scrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond reputescrubbedexpat091 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Different legal systems I guess, it happens a fair amount here, someone hits a pedestrian/kills someone while driving, police detain for questioning, then released, and months later upon completion of the investigation either recommend charges and arrest or they don't recommend charges.

We have had people with immunity in Canada cause deaths in the past, none have ever faced any consequences because of it, and most where whisked out of Canada very quickly.

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
I should watch what I say, by arrested I meant taken to the cop shop. Apparently she spoke with police at the scene and was given a breathalyser test. I don't know UK police procedure in such cases, but I'm skeptical that an 'ordinary' person would be allowed to leave the scene when they'd admitted to causing a death by dangerous driving. I'd have thought it'd at least be an appearance before a magistrate and then bailed to appear in court at a later date. But she was allowed to leave and given the courtesy of a home visit.
scrubbedexpat091 is offline  
Old Dec 24th 2019, 5:29 am
  #74  
 
lansbury's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,962
lansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Originally Posted by TexanScot
Did she actually admit that at the scene though?

I don't think she was ever charged whilst in the UK, and Causing Death by Dangerous Driving seems like overcharging by CPS purely to justify an extradition.

The case is an open and shut example of Causing Death by Careless Driving, which is what I suspect they will drop the charges down to if she ever actually returns to the UK.
Causing death by dangerous driving is the correct offence for the circumstances.
lansbury is offline  
Old Dec 24th 2019, 10:54 am
  #75  
Often not so civil...
 
civilservant's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: The Boonies, GA
Posts: 9,561
civilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond reputecivilservant has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: US Diplomat's wife kills biker in UK then flees country :(

Causing Death by Dangerous Driving seems like overcharging by CPS purely to justify an extradition.
Section 1, Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended):

'A person who causes the death of another person by driving a mechanically propelled vehicle dangerously on a road or other public place is guilty of an offence.'

Seems to me like an open and shut case. She was on the wrong side of the road. That rises beyond the level of carelessness in my view.
civilservant is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.