Oregon4now

Drivers license alone sufficed..True story..lol

meauxna

It must have fallen under the 'oral declaration' loophole. Well, you can see why that's probably for the best! (just jealous because my last oral declaration when it was still allowed wasn't enough and I wasn't willing to risk my DH getting thrown in the hoosegow)

CelticRover

Prior to June 1 2009 it was the same on the Mexican border, where even an expired US passport was accepted as proof of citizenship. By the way, even without the required current passport at land crossings today, the worst that usually happens is a few minutes at the secondary screening to satisfy immigration that you are a citizen.

meauxna

So we can agree that Oregon (and other states) DL system has changed recently. As you know, Oregon DLs are valid for 8 years at a stretch. And as I showed, mine just expired this year and had to be replaced with the new rules.
However, I also know some people personally who are here EWI (entered illegally) who hold Oregon DLs.

Now, this topic was never about crossing the land border, so back to internal travel. My EWI friend has the same ID as you. How do you prove you're legal and he's not? Are you OK with the consequences being applied equally to him as to you (IE detention). You'd meet your objective of exposing him (actually, he would welcome it, as it works in his favor ATM) but you have suffered similar detention yourself. Is that OK?

made of kent

interesting thread, and I will admit i haven't read it all, but I have found the US strangulating on my 3 years here, the Paranoia, immigration fears, and documentation! I have joke at least once a week the only other place in the world you could live with these rules, would be a communist country, I find it very similar, you live by these rule, you complete this paper work, you carry this card, 3 weeks ago I went to NY with a British Friend on the train, during convo I found out she didn't have her passport, we where coming from CT, she had left it in the hotel safe, I worried all day on it, I worried that I only had my CT driver license, not my passport with my visa in it.
rules just a simple one I was phoned up and told by the School Nurse my children would not be admitted to school without their Doctors form, and that they had had their immunization, I said "oh, I gave them in yesterday at the open day to Mrs X" she said "Mrs X is not here, they can't start school without the forms" being fortunately a nurse myself I was in my comfort zone, "well sorry, I don't have the forms Mrs X has them and I don't have copies, I suggest you check with her tomorrow" she repeated "they will not be allowed to go to school" I replied "I have no problem with that as I gave them to Mrs X" my problem was parents in CT are forced to have their children have a whole heap of inoculations before school which I actually am a great exponent of, I gave vaccines as a living in the UK and believe in them, but they shouldn't be forced into it by the State, (they should be educated and some will reject in the UK but that is freedom, makes me cross, but it is freedom), just to get their Kids in school!
American's live in a world that is toe the line otherwise we will brand you as anti American, and you will be Mud! people are frightened! I see it, and for me the day I leave America is not a day to soon, December is when we go
My above example is a simple one but I fear for the US is becoming so far right it is fascist, the only hope I got was Obama but it seems to have excellerated the trend, I want out before melt down

Sally Redux

Ha ha, I notice that so much here. Americans just don't realize their similarity to communist systems.

Hope you're doing OK Made of Kent

Jerseygirl

CT isn't the only state that requires various shots for kids before attending school. My daughter also had to have a medical before the start of the school year...not sure whether this was state required or whether it was school policy.

I wondered what had happened to you...now I know...you've been busy making plans to go home. Hope it all goes well for you.

Rete

The ACLU has issues with just about everything. No biggie there.

Rete

NYS is the same and was that way back when my girls were in school in the 70's and 80's and when I went to school in the 50's and 60's.

Think this is a poor example of "control" by government since it has been around for decades and has helped stop the spread of some childhood diseases.

Rete

Since I am not familiar with what documentation those in a communist country need to carry on their persons, I cannot say if the US equates with them or not.

But in the US what documentation do you need to carry? You are not mandated to carry any identification in the US if you are a USC. Of course, if you are driving you need your driver's license. I'm assuming you have to do that in the UK as well. I am also assuming you don't have to carry proof of your British citizenship while going about your lives in the UK.

What forms do USC's have to complete? Other than a form to prove the right to work, I can't think of any that I am obligated to complete to prove my status.

robin1234

All of a sudden I see that we are all meticulous about documenting our sources... however, I note that Oregon4now still hasn't come up with chapter & verse about how the Gestapo used to "call for investigations" in Germany during the NSDAP Administration (1933-1945.)

S Folinsky

You are very welcome.

Although it often comes up in an immigration related context, I don't think of the citizenship clause in that context. As often noted, it was a reaction to the Civil War. But the citizenship clause, in my mind is broader than just race. It pays to remember that the Supreme Court in late 19th Century had living memory of the Civil War. Does the 14th Amendment protect the individual business interests of butchers in New Orleans? No, it does not. Does it block separate accommodations for races on a train? No, it does not. Does it allow differential citizenship determinations of persons born in the US on basis of race -- wait one minute, it certainly does.

In your initial post in this thread, you mentioned "treason" and I responded with the definition. Well, only citizens can commit treason. Did Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and others commit "treason?" They were never tried for it. It can be argued that they were loyal citizens of their respective states which had withdrawn from the Union. In addition, the "Dred Scott" decision was based on the premise that a slave was not a "citizen."

For the relationship between "treason" and "birthright citizenship" you may want to look at the Kawakita case from the US Supreme Court. There is also the Inouye case involving a Canadian.

In a historical context, I think it is an excellent idea to have a "bright line" test of who is a US citizen. If "anchor babies" are a cost, then I think it is a cost bearing since the lack of that "bright line" scares me. Sometimes, freedom has a cost.

BTW, of personal interest to me is my mother's history. My grandparents were fleeing Russia during their civil war. My mother was born in what today is Moldova which was then part of Romania. My mother was NEVER a Romanian citizen. In essence, she was stateless for the first 17 years of her life. Their family ended up in Canada, and when their quota number became current, moved south into the United States. [Mom was one of three children born in three different countries -- Romania, Canada and the US].

My grandparents naturalized as US citizens in April 1940. No one in the family realized that this also naturalized their two older children. After Pearl Harbor, all of the Axis powers declared war on the US, including Romania. My mother had to register as an "enemy alien" because she was BORN in Romania. When she went to naturalize in 1943 before marrying her sailor boy [aka "Dad"], she discovered that she had been a US Citizen for three years! So I chuckle a bit when I hear the phrase "what part of illegal alien don't you understand?" because I hear "illegal aliens" being considered "enemies."

Finally, a little political rant. Take a look at the history of the U.S. Army's 442nd Regimental Combat Team -- "anchor babies" all -- as far as I am concerned, we, as a nation, owe a collective debt to birthright citizens. Note that one of the Medal of Honor recipients is a very prominent "liberal." He is the only Medal of Honor recipient I have ever met, we shook hands and he offered his left hand upside down -- he lost his right arm in Italy.

Mummy in the foothills

Interestingly, if you try to tell this stuff to a tried and true American, they won't believe you, after all they will tell you this is the home of the brave and land of the free If they say it enough I'm told it becomes true!

Duncan Roberts

So, what happens here. You come over on a K-1. You get married and file your AOS. Your K-1 expires and you don't have a greencard. How do you prove you are legally in the country? I probably had an unusual that is likely not applicable now where it took 18 months to get my greencard and I never had a proper receipt notice for my AOS application. Due to several weird and wonderful things that happened I ended up with what was essentially a cash register receipt from my local office that showed the form numbers for AOS, EAD, AP and fingerprinting plus the cost for each form. It was also tiny (maybe 3" x 1.5") and hard to read. I don't think I could have proved that I was here legally with an expired visa and faded, unofficial looking receipt.

meauxna

Thanks for that little diversion.. I didn't know that and it's a cool read!