British Expats

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-   -   two countries separated by a common language (https://britishexpats.com/forum/trailer-park-96/two-countries-separated-common-language-940489/)

robin1234 Sep 5th 2021 1:42 pm

two countries separated by a common language
 
I expect GBS would have guffawed if he saw this headline in our local paper in New York State.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...8d3e0177c.jpeg

Rete Sep 5th 2021 1:44 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
At least it didn't shout out "Village Mum On Toilet" :blink:

robin1234 Sep 5th 2021 1:45 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
In the US we have “mum” meaning chrysanthemum, but the main meaning of the word is “keeping silent.” I believe it means that in Britain too, but it’s probably not so beloved of headline writers in the UK as here …

Rete Sep 5th 2021 1:53 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
From reading so many British novels, I was under the impression that "mum" was what you called your mother. If wrong, my apologies.

P.S. Aware of the meaning of mum in the US. Mum's the word!

robin1234 Sep 5th 2021 2:34 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by Rete (Post 13048208)
From reading so many British novels, I was under the impression that "mum" was what you called your mother. If wrong, my apologies.

P.S. Aware of the meaning of mum in the US. Mum's the word!

Well yeah, that’s the whole point of the thread!!

scrubbedexpat091 Sep 5th 2021 8:40 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
In BC people seem to say mum but then spell Mom, it confused the living daylights out of me when I first moved here, then you have my wife born and raised in BC where most say mum and spell mom, but say's mom like Americans do, but her brother says mum but spells it mom.

The weirdness of Canadian English a mix of UK and US with some Canadian stuff thrown in.

Not sure about schools, but in day to day life luckily for me its generally acceptable if US spelling is used, I try to add the extra and different letters to words spelled differently here but it takes some pretty conscious thinking and typing to use Cheque instead of check, centre vs center, defence vs defense etc

But then some words like tire are spelled the US way, and of course can vary a bit across the country, apparently Parkade isn't used everywhere in Canada.




robin1234 Dec 5th 2021 6:30 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
Just another weird one I’ve come across recently. Past tense of broadcast? I’ve noticed (in US sources) they’ll sometimes say (as an example) “The performance was broadcasted last Wednesday.”

That looks very odd to me. I didn’t look up the etymology, but I assume that “broadcast,” as in radio or TV content, is simply the same word as “cast” or “broadcast,” as in sowing seed by hand. I think the past tense is “cast” or “broadcast?”

I see there’s huge discussion online, people saying broadcasted is nonstandard but becoming an acceptable variant.

kimilseung Dec 5th 2021 8:15 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 13048203)
In the US we have “mum” meaning chrysanthemum, but the main meaning of the word is “keeping silent.” I believe it means that in Britain too, but it’s probably not so beloved of headline writers in the UK as here …

I am glad that you explained that to us. I was a tad confused.

Nutmegger Dec 5th 2021 8:28 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 13078771)
Just another weird one I’ve come across recently. Past tense of broadcast? I’ve noticed (in US sources) they’ll sometimes say (as an example) “The performance was broadcasted last Wednesday.”

That looks very odd to me. I didn’t look up the etymology, but I assume that “broadcast,” as in radio or TV content, is simply the same word as “cast” or “broadcast,” as in sowing seed by hand. I think the past tense is “cast” or “broadcast?”

I see there’s huge discussion online, people saying broadcasted is nonstandard but becoming an acceptable variant.


I have also heard “forecasted” in connection with the weather predictions, in a situation where I would just use forecast.

robin1234 Dec 5th 2021 8:49 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 13078796)
I am glad that you explained that to us. I was a tad confused.

well, here’s another version of the sentence even more confusing..
“Potsdam village mum on settlement amount with toilet garden impresario..”

My thought was that people unfamiliar with American usage might not know what “mum” meant in the sentence ..

Other stories have “flushed with success” “wiped out” etc. etc.

But months later, I can tell you that Hank Robar’s toilet gardens in Potsdam have expanded and appeared in several new locations.

Lion in Winter Dec 6th 2021 12:51 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 13048203)
In the US we have “mum” meaning chrysanthemum, but the main meaning of the word is “keeping silent.” I believe it means that in Britain too, but it’s probably not so beloved of headline writers in the UK as here …


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...bf55420cc4.jpg

lizzyq Dec 6th 2021 4:35 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
One that always grates on my British ears is the US use of "normalcy" rather than "normality". Then I wonder if the US term is "abnormalcy" or "abnormality"? My US spell checker suggests the latter - in which case why two different endings?

robin1234 Dec 6th 2021 6:53 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by lizzyq (Post 13079056)
One that always grates on my British ears is the US use of "normalcy" rather than "normality". Then I wonder if the US term is "abnormalcy" or "abnormality"? My US spell checker suggests the latter - in which case why two different endings?

I think that originally “normalcy” was a rather precise technical term, meaning the state of being the norm. See this early instance of the word from the OED;

1857 C. Davies & W. G. Peck Math. Dict. 386 If we denote the co-ordinates of the point of contact, and normalcy, by x″ and y″. (OED)

Gradually, in American English, it entered common usage as a synonym for “normality.”

jandro Dec 16th 2021 7:29 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
The British equivalent in this case could be "keeping shtum" although I think that's usually used when you want to remain silent to avoid trouble.

zzrmark Dec 18th 2021 1:09 am

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
I could care less but if you talk to me about burglarizing the winningest coach you can expect a Glasgow kiss...

Former Lancastrian Dec 18th 2021 9:31 am

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d8/99/6e/d...a25f30ceb3.jpg

tht Dec 19th 2021 12:07 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by jandro (Post 13081876)
The British equivalent in this case could be "keeping shtum" although I think that's usually used when you want to remain silent to avoid trouble.

The “British” equivalent is a German / Yiddish word?

robin1234 Dec 19th 2021 12:20 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by tht (Post 13082344)
The “British” equivalent is a German / Yiddish word?

Also, “mum” has been in widespread use in British English since medieval times (Shakespeare has it,) whereas “schtum” is probably 20th century.

macliam Dec 19th 2021 12:57 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 
The first mistake in language is to presume that a way of saying or spelling something is unique to a region or country - often it may be used elsewhere, sometimes as a secondary form. My own background comes from seeing the differences in hiberno-english, even within a small area of a few million people - and then seeing the differences between that and "standard" english in the UK and exposure to the "english" of other anglophone countries. A problem is that language has evolved organically - and continues to evolve.

The English, unlike the French, did not set up a college to decide the correct forms and usage, so whereas the French can declare the form from a different francophone country "patois" or simply "incorrect", there is no such authority in english. IMO, this is not for a "good" reason, but just because there was an assumption that british english would always be the "mother tongue" and therefore all other forms are secondary (and a similarly arrogant assumption in the USA that "might is right"). On the other hand, language in anglopone countries with a high level of admixture through immigration, or serious exposure to another language or languages, evolves both to accommodate circumstances and in order to find a "standard" where none exists. This is not restricted to english, hence the differences between latin amarican and continental spanish - and particularly between brazilian and european portuguese.

Where it becomes problematical is where, as in the portuguese example, the usage of the "foreign" variant becomes so dominant that the orthography of the original changes to accommodate it. There is far more resistance to this in english..... so we have lots of arguments over what is the "correct" version.

jandro Dec 20th 2021 7:14 am

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by tht (Post 13082344)
The “British” equivalent is a German / Yiddish word?

It's origins are Yiddish/German but it's been appropriated in to British English.

macliam Dec 20th 2021 8:22 am

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by jandro (Post 13082502)
It's origins are Yiddish/German but it's been appropriated in to British English.

Amongst some and apoparently from post-war prison slang.

However, as has been pointed out, mum is an old english word for silent, (from momme), hence mummers and "keep mum".


robin1234 Dec 20th 2021 12:15 pm

Re: two countries separated by a common language
 

Originally Posted by jandro (Post 13082502)
It's origins are Yiddish/German but it's been appropriated in to British English.

Yiddish loan words in British and American English is an interesting topic. Also, there are some English words that many people claim are from Yiddish, but actually are generally common in Germanic languages.. so not necessarily Yiddish in origin. “Nudge” is an example ..


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