Folinskyinla

Hi:

Fascinating. It is interesting to note that the Federal "regulation" does not allow interstate transportation from Alabama [where legal] to NY where it is not unless NY permit already obtained. http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf

paul1968mcr

My concealed carry permit for Indiana is being processed as we speak

You can actually transport a handgun through NYC, it just has to be part of an uninterupted passage through - don't think you can even stop for a piss!

We need a federal carry permit valid in all states!

Steerpike

Please don't ask such practical questions in this developing thread ...
Define 'need'!

Ignoring the constitutional and esoteric arguments, 'why' should it be legal to carry a firearm? If I had a firearm I can guarantee you it would be a detriment to society ... blowing off my penis would be the best you could hope for ...

robin1234

I agree with Steerpike on this... need???
What about States' Rights? As a New York citizen & resident, I'd be extremely pissed if out-of-staters could come to my state carrying a handgun. And if I was a police officer, I'd be even more ticked off.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

As we all know, this is a political hot potato. National firearms registration strikes me as perhaps being a reasonable means of regulation.

However, I think that for many reasons, it will be impossible to pass a nationwide handgun registry such as that posed by paul1968mcr. Also, I wonder if it would have any teeth in it.

I wonder if paul1968mcr would limit such a national registry to just handguns? If so, why?

crg

I seriously wonder how much "research" was done prior to the trip. Did his friend and the bar tell him it was okay? Hopefully they'll see that it was a mistake. The fact that it came to the attention of the police when declared at the airport makes it clearly a mistake. NY should save their jail space for real criminals and let him off lightly.

Even if you live in NY and have a concealed carry permit in New York State, you can't just tote it around in New York City without special permission. It's a big no no.

As for the airport aspect, I presume he was trying to fly with it in checked baggage. I've done it before, and sometimes the airline will get the police to look at it to make sure it's unloaded. I'm sure they check to see if the weapon is being carried lawfully as well.

Here's some info:

http://www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm

Folinskyinla

Hi:

I find the bolded language puzzling.

Using the law school convention of calling a criminal defendant by the letter "D", the facts appear to be: D was well aware of the fact that carrying a concealed weapon requires a permit inasmuch as he bothered to get an Alabama permit; D's destination was New York City and presumably, he had a round trip ticket showing that fact; D spent time in New York City and admitted to a cop that he was carrying the weapon. Crank in the fact that a firearm happens to be a lethal weapon, the violation is quite "real" and under public policy has been made a felony.

I remember the days when DUI was not considered a "real" crime and then MADD formed and started lobbying quite hard so now it is considered a "real" crime.

I have no idea what kind of plea bargain can be reached in this one -- but the facts show that D did commit a quite serious offense.

As an aside -- I wonder why "the right to bear arms" comes up only in the context of firearms -- there are other types of deadly weapons that are not firearms -- California law makes it an offense to possess a "dirk or dagger" and also nan-chuks. When US Grant wrote about his conversation with General Lee at Appomattox, he mentioned that although Confederate soldiers had to surrender the rifles and cannon, the officers were allowed to retain the "sidearms" -- I wondered about that until I found out it was NOT a reference to revolvers and pistols -- it was a reference to their swords, which was a badge of rank.

NC Penguin

That last sentence is somewhat confusing. Initially, I thought you meant you needed to get a "federal carry permit" but that doesn't make sense because there is no such permit. I then realized that it's your wish that such a document existed.

BTW, I took my first shooting class this past week. It was a Bruce Gray class.

crg

I didn't mean that they'd drop the issue altogether or that he wasn't guilty of something.

People who know they have an illegal handgun don't usually declare it to an airline employee and then wait around for the cops to come over. Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "clearly" and said it was an indicator that it was probably a mistake.

My point was that his ignorance or lack of intent could be a mitigating factor when they select the charge, contemplate a plea deal, and determine the sentence. We both know that the police, prosecutor and the judge all have broad discretion in how this is dealt with.

I've even seen a carjacking charge that was plead down to "trespassing within an occupied conveyance" in order to avoid the mandatory minimum sentence guidelines of the carjacking offense.

Of course they could throw the book at him so qualified legal representation would be advised.

People have been known to get a year in a Mexican jail for making a wrong turn into Mexico with a hunting rifle in their trunk so it could be worse.

paul1968mcr

out-of-stater, they not Americans too?

BTW Gangbangers, drug dealers and the other unsavoury characters responsible for the VAST majority of gun crime don't tend to bother to apply for a concealed gun permit, and it's those guys I think you'll find the police are ticked off with, and who you should be worried about.

paul1968mcr

I'm hoping to attend Masad Ayoobs Lethal Force Institute in Indiana.....the $800 required is delaying things somewhat (thats another gun).

Yeah the permit really does need to be federal, too easy for the uninformed to cock-up accidently, and without causing any danger to another soul, end up right in it!

paul1968mcr

Nar I was refering to a National concealed carry permit, not a registry, there used to be such a permit I have heard, many moons ago.

paul1968mcr

Need in the legal sense.
Oh and regarding the need to carry, just look-up self defense shootings in google - there's quite a few examples.

robin1234

I don't care if they are Americans or not - I don't want people carrying guns anywhere near me (unless they are police officers, legitimate hunters, or otherwise have a good reason to be carrying a gun..)

And a vague distrust of "unsavory characters" is not a good reason. In fact, it's a terrible reason.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Again, I am confused.

First statement -- out-of-staters may or may not be "American" if you are using that term in the sense of citizenship. However, state citizenship is defined as state of residence of an American Citizen. This is in the 14th amendment. And New York State has certain rights under the Constitution.

I don't understand where you get the idea that New York State does not consider out-of-staters not to be "American."

Second -- I agree with you that gun possession is something to be worried about and that New York State seems to be acting reasonably.