Strange attitude
Jan 18th 2008, 1:28 am
#16
Queen of my house
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,043
Re: Strange attitude
this has been bugging me for a few weeks now so I thought i would post about it here to see what you lot think. (Aplogies if i manage to offend anyone - I am trying hard not too but 'racial' issues can be misunderstood too easily).
When I arrived I was surprised by the amount of Spanish speakers and the greater use of spanish language on signs and packets etc. Its not an issue I just hadnt realised it was like this. (last time i saw that kind of thing was when i lived in wales and all the signs were dual language). I have been served in shops a few times by Spanish speakers who have very little grasp of the English language. They look like rabbits caught in the headlights when i talk to them. Yesterday in a large local supermarket I took a loaf of bread to the bakery counter to get it sliced and the woman i asked was so 'servile' I felt like lady muck! She looked terrified and kept her head down and scuttled off with it. She came back with it sliced and also with a box of cookies which she offered some to my kids. So I dont think she was scared of me as she smiled and gave my kids biscuits - BUT she was almost bowing and scraping and i didnt know why. I wondered if it was my accent, my height (im quite tall), or whether this was a normal type of response to a customer? Do american ladies inspire such an attitude in those that dont speak the lingo? Or am I doing something unbeknowingly thats intimidating them. ANy ideas?
When I arrived I was surprised by the amount of Spanish speakers and the greater use of spanish language on signs and packets etc. Its not an issue I just hadnt realised it was like this. (last time i saw that kind of thing was when i lived in wales and all the signs were dual language). I have been served in shops a few times by Spanish speakers who have very little grasp of the English language. They look like rabbits caught in the headlights when i talk to them. Yesterday in a large local supermarket I took a loaf of bread to the bakery counter to get it sliced and the woman i asked was so 'servile' I felt like lady muck! She looked terrified and kept her head down and scuttled off with it. She came back with it sliced and also with a box of cookies which she offered some to my kids. So I dont think she was scared of me as she smiled and gave my kids biscuits - BUT she was almost bowing and scraping and i didnt know why. I wondered if it was my accent, my height (im quite tall), or whether this was a normal type of response to a customer? Do american ladies inspire such an attitude in those that dont speak the lingo? Or am I doing something unbeknowingly thats intimidating them. ANy ideas?
Jan 19th 2008, 11:21 am
#18
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: From Kent, UK to California
Posts: 55
Re: Strange attitude
I've had a similar experience Ms E....Sorta
I had not been here in the US that long and was in my local supermarket at the meat counter and 3 young hispanic guys were serving. I asked for a 1lb of mincemeat to which the poor guy just looked at me with a dumbfounded expression on his face. He called over the other 2 and I repeated my request, it was obvious that they couldn't speak much English and was pointing to different meats at the counter. After 5 mins of this I asked for a supervisor....I wish I hadn't as all of them was nearly cringing but called the supervisor. After he heard what I wanted he pointed me to the baking isle saying "the jars of mincemeat is kept there". After some confusion I explained what it was I wanted (i.e. ground meat). The poor guys was looking down at the floor the whole time and I felt bad but when the manager spoke in Spanish to them and explained they all laughed.
I had not been here in the US that long and was in my local supermarket at the meat counter and 3 young hispanic guys were serving. I asked for a 1lb of mincemeat to which the poor guy just looked at me with a dumbfounded expression on his face. He called over the other 2 and I repeated my request, it was obvious that they couldn't speak much English and was pointing to different meats at the counter. After 5 mins of this I asked for a supervisor....I wish I hadn't as all of them was nearly cringing but called the supervisor. After he heard what I wanted he pointed me to the baking isle saying "the jars of mincemeat is kept there". After some confusion I explained what it was I wanted (i.e. ground meat). The poor guys was looking down at the floor the whole time and I felt bad but when the manager spoke in Spanish to them and explained they all laughed.
Jan 19th 2008, 2:51 pm
#19
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 13,265
Re: Strange attitude
Spanish is a beautiful language - I could listen to it all day; Spanish was the language of California before it became part of the US. It IS the language of a large number of poor people in this country ... is that somehow related?
Does it bother you to see everything in French on cosmetics (put there to pretentiously associate the cosmetic with France) ....?
Jan 19th 2008, 3:35 pm
#20
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,669
Re: Strange attitude
May I ask - what is disconcerting about seeing signs in Spanish?
Spanish is a beautiful language - I could listen to it all day; Spanish was the language of California before it became part of the US. It IS the language of a large number of poor people in this country ... is that somehow related?
Does it bother you to see everything in French on cosmetics (put there to pretentiously associate the cosmetic with France) ....?
Spanish is a beautiful language - I could listen to it all day; Spanish was the language of California before it became part of the US. It IS the language of a large number of poor people in this country ... is that somehow related?
Does it bother you to see everything in French on cosmetics (put there to pretentiously associate the cosmetic with France) ....?
Last time I checked this country had been an English speaking country for a few centuries now. People do not assimilate if everything around them is in their native language.
The immigrants who arrived here from Lithuania, etc...were speaking English by the second generation. They assimilated. Unfortunately, those in south Florida have no cause to.
Jan 19th 2008, 3:43 pm
#21
Riding on silver wings
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,543
Re: Strange attitude
Strawman no?
Last time I checked this country had been an English speaking country for a few centuries now. People do not assimilate if everything around them is in their native language.
The immigrants who arrived here from Lithuania, etc...were speaking English by the second generation. They assimilated. Unfortunately, those in south Florida have no cause to.
Last time I checked this country had been an English speaking country for a few centuries now. People do not assimilate if everything around them is in their native language.
The immigrants who arrived here from Lithuania, etc...were speaking English by the second generation. They assimilated. Unfortunately, those in south Florida have no cause to.
Jan 19th 2008, 3:48 pm
#22
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,474
Re: Strange attitude
May I ask - what is disconcerting about seeing signs in Spanish?
Spanish is a beautiful language - I could listen to it all day; Spanish was the language of California before it became part of the US. It IS the language of a large number of poor people in this country ... is that somehow related?
Does it bother you to see everything in French on cosmetics (put there to pretentiously associate the cosmetic with France) ....?
Spanish is a beautiful language - I could listen to it all day; Spanish was the language of California before it became part of the US. It IS the language of a large number of poor people in this country ... is that somehow related?
Does it bother you to see everything in French on cosmetics (put there to pretentiously associate the cosmetic with France) ....?
Because this is an English speaking country. We are not Canada where they have a province that is 'officially' bi-lingual which is why some of the products sold in the US have French on the packaging,
Personally, I do find the Spanish language one that makes me cringe as I find the sound very gutteral and unpleasant.
Jan 19th 2008, 3:51 pm
#23
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,474
Re: Strange attitude
Plus it's quite arrogant of us to force people to speak the language of the country they are in. I'm sure that circumstance will make it a necessity but it should not be forced upon them. I certainly wouldn't like to be forced to speak Mandarin Chinese if I were living there.
You learn and use the language of the country you have adopted as your home. Your home country does not have to adapt itself to yours.
It's my right to speak the way I want to. However circumstance would prove that it would be in my best interest to learn in order to function as a human being.
Even animals have to learn different languages if they wish to cohabitate with other species.
Jan 19th 2008, 4:09 pm
#24
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,669
Re: Strange attitude
I'm there. When you move to another country, you learn the local language. My parents moved to an English speaking country and were forced to learn the language, they had no choice.
In the UK for instance, they have something like 10 official languages at the NHS - what a nightmare that must be to administer.
In the UK for instance, they have something like 10 official languages at the NHS - what a nightmare that must be to administer.
Jan 19th 2008, 4:53 pm
#28
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 13,265
Re: Strange attitude
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languag..._United_States :
"The United States does not have an official language, but English is spoken by about 82% of the population as a native language."
There is definitely some value in everyone speaking a common language, but that happens naturally anyway by the second generation. In the meantime, printing Spanish on various labels and signs helps the first generation survive. And teaches me Spanish along the way ...
Wow - don't know which dialect you listen to; I find Spanish and Italian to be very musical and delightful. Spanish is an ancient and beautiful language, and if you go to Spain (other than the Costa Del Sol) you can experience the ancient and beautiful country that spawned it. I wonder if a hint of prejudice is coloring your opinion here ...
Marketing people put French on cosmetics (and food products) in the US for no other reason that to make an association with France, which is regarded by many to be the prominent place for cosmetics and food. I'm not talking about maple syrup here ...
"The United States does not have an official language, but English is spoken by about 82% of the population as a native language."
There is definitely some value in everyone speaking a common language, but that happens naturally anyway by the second generation. In the meantime, printing Spanish on various labels and signs helps the first generation survive. And teaches me Spanish along the way ...
Personally, I do find the Spanish language one that makes me cringe as I find the sound very gutteral and unpleasant.
We are not Canada where they have a province that is 'officially' bi-lingual which is why some of the products sold in the US have French on the packaging,
Jan 19th 2008, 5:01 pm
#29
Lapine Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas in my own little world
Posts: 21,691
Re: Strange attitude
I'm now seeing many items in *three* languages.
However, I have noticed a surge in Spanish labelling over the last year. There are more and more people here who do not speak any English, though some of them cannot read in Spanish. In many ways the Spanish is there as a marketing device to show that the company welcomes its Hispanic customer base, whether or not they can speak English.
I'm torn by this one.... I am by no means an "English-only" person but I do believe that immigrants who wish citizenship should proof some level of English fluency. This is required by the Netherlands (well, Dutch proficiency). However, the United States doesn't have an official language, so I don't think it'd be easy to require fluency in any given language.
Jan 19th 2008, 6:33 pm
#30
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 13,265
Re: Strange attitude
....
I'm torn by this one.... I am by no means an "English-only" person but I do believe that immigrants who wish citizenship should proof some level of English fluency. This is required by the Netherlands (well, Dutch proficiency). However, the United States doesn't have an official language, so I don't think it'd be easy to require fluency in any given language.
I'm torn by this one.... I am by no means an "English-only" person but I do believe that immigrants who wish citizenship should proof some level of English fluency. This is required by the Netherlands (well, Dutch proficiency). However, the United States doesn't have an official language, so I don't think it'd be easy to require fluency in any given language.
