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Spaceships and astronomy

Spaceships and astronomy

Old Jul 24th 2021, 6:02 pm
  #436  
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Living on Mars will be research one way or another. Even tourists or colonizers are effectively self-selecting human guinea pigs as to the effects on the human body, and survival constraints. I think you dismiss it too easily with flawed analogies. I wouldn't go, but then again I wouldn't climb Everest or journey to the South Pole with dogs. But I'm glad there are other humans who did. Just as life is supposed to be about the journey rather than the destination, so to is our species arc. We won't be around forever, so why not learn as much about the neighborhood as we reasonably can ?
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Old Jul 24th 2021, 6:20 pm
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by Shard
Living on Mars will be research one way or another. Even tourists or colonizers are effectively self-selecting human guinea pigs as to the effects on the human body, and survival constraints. I think you dismiss it too easily with flawed analogies. I wouldn't go, but then again I wouldn't climb Everest or journey to the South Pole with dogs. But I'm glad there are other humans who did. Just as life is supposed to be about the journey rather than the destination, so to is our species arc. We won't be around forever, so why not learn as much about the neighborhood as we reasonably can ?
I'm not saying not to go at all, just not to rush into it. Climbing Everest isn't worth risking your life for and neither is going to Mars. At least not for non-astronauts. The level of training and physical endurance required even to go to the ISS is beyond most average people. When robotics can handle the tasks adequately, there's no need to put humans at risk too soon. Maybe 20, 30, even 50 years it might be more viable.

If it is going to be done, Mars is the end goal, but it should start with the Moon. Lower gravity on the moon means larger craft with higher payloads can be launched from there with much lower energy required. The best thing to do would be to restart manned missions to the Moon, research the feasibility of setting up some kind of reusable outpost there - call it a 'landed ISS' if you will, and look at launching to Mars from the Moon. Then from Mars, look to the asteroid belt. This is over a period of 50-100 years, mind, but eventually it should be possible to have colonies on the Moon, Mars and some asteroids, with shuttles going back and forth between them. It won't happen in our lifetime, but that's the way I see it playing out if NASA can get the backing.
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Old Jul 24th 2021, 10:35 pm
  #438  
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
I'm not saying not to go at all, just not to rush into it. Climbing Everest isn't worth risking your life for and neither is going to Mars. At least not for non-astronauts. The level of training and physical endurance required even to go to the ISS is beyond most average people. When robotics can handle the tasks adequately, there's no need to put humans at risk too soon. Maybe 20, 30, even 50 years it might be more viable.

If it is going to be done, Mars is the end goal, but it should start with the Moon. Lower gravity on the moon means larger craft with higher payloads can be launched from there with much lower energy required. The best thing to do would be to restart manned missions to the Moon, research the feasibility of setting up some kind of reusable outpost there - call it a 'landed ISS' if you will, and look at launching to Mars from the Moon. Then from Mars, look to the asteroid belt. This is over a period of 50-100 years, mind, but eventually it should be possible to have colonies on the Moon, Mars and some asteroids, with shuttles going back and forth between them. It won't happen in our lifetime, but that's the way I see it playing out if NASA can get the backing.
Surprisingly, I agree with all of this. No actual rush !

When I watch the grainy film footage of the moon landing, I always think, if they'd waited another 30 years it could all have been captured in a decent resolution.
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Old Jul 24th 2021, 10:54 pm
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by Shard
Surprisingly, I agree with all of this. No actual rush !

When I watch the grainy film footage of the moon landing, I always think, if they'd waited another 30 years it could all have been captured in a decent resolution.
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Right, no rush, and there's still plenty of valid science that can be done remotely in the meantime anyway. Also, why does Mars get all the spotlight? I'd like to see more of Venus, that planet really fascinates me.

Grainy as some of the footage on the surface of the moon is, there is still some amazing 35mm film footage of the launch itself. Too much resolution and you'd have seen the aliens anyway ...
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Old Jul 25th 2021, 9:53 am
  #440  
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
Right, no rush, and there's still plenty of valid science that can be done remotely in the meantime anyway. Also, why does Mars get all the spotlight? I'd like to see more of Venus, that planet really fascinates me.

Grainy as some of the footage on the surface of the moon is, there is still some amazing 35mm film footage of the launch itself. Too much resolution and you'd have seen the aliens anyway ...
What is it that fascinates you about Venus ?

The launch footage of the Saturn V is reasonably good, and now 20th century visual history ! There were of course good medium format film photographs taken on the lunar Hasselblads ! I used to have a set of thirty 8x10 prints from the Apollo missons some of which made it on the teenage bedroom wall. I still have one or two kicking around but only last month was pondering disposing of that too. These days NASA imagery is widely available on crystal clear screens, so different than before.
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Old Jul 25th 2021, 12:21 pm
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Scientifically minded folks: just started a new thread on Antarctica in The Lounge if anyone is interested. Not sure how to link it? Just general chat about the expeditions etc..
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Old Jul 25th 2021, 10:12 pm
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by Shard
What is it that fascinates you about Venus ?

The launch footage of the Saturn V is reasonably good, and now 20th century visual history ! There were of course good medium format film photographs taken on the lunar Hasselblads ! I used to have a set of thirty 8x10 prints from the Apollo missons some of which made it on the teenage bedroom wall. I still have one or two kicking around but only last month was pondering disposing of that too. These days NASA imagery is widely available on crystal clear screens, so different than before.
I don't know exactly what it is about Venus. Maybe because it's almost exactly the same size as Earth but it's so wildly different too, with its atmosphere, retrograde rotation and the 177° axial tilt. It might not be as obviously cool as Saturn or Jupiter but I think all solar system objects warrant study either way.

The great thing about NASA is that their images are public record so we can access all these images, from Hubble and other missions for free at any time. Can't beat that.

Originally Posted by Shard
Scientifically minded folks: just started a new thread on Antarctica in The Lounge if anyone is interested. Not sure how to link it? Just general chat about the expeditions etc..
I'll go have a look.
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Old Jul 26th 2021, 9:22 am
  #443  
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
I don't know exactly what it is about Venus. Maybe because it's almost exactly the same size as Earth but it's so wildly different too, with its atmosphere, retrograde rotation and the 177° axial tilt. It might not be as obviously cool as Saturn or Jupiter but I think all solar system objects warrant study either way.

The great thing about NASA is that their images are public record so we can access all these images, from Hubble and other missions for free at any time. Can't beat that.

I'll go have a look.
Yes the fact that Venus is earth sized is always quite appealing. I enjoy seeing it in the night sky it's somehow more exotic than Mars.
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Old Jul 26th 2021, 2:16 pm
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by Shard
Yes the fact that Venus is earth sized is always quite appealing. I enjoy seeing it in the night sky it's somehow more exotic than Mars.
Our relationship with the other inner planets is interesting anyway. At some point all 3 are closest to us (Venus passes closest, but on average Mercury stays closer longer). They have all been known since antiquity and all are generally visible, though Mercury is elusive.

But Venus is the most prominent, always there at sunset, providing some constancy to our evenings.
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Old Jul 26th 2021, 5:09 pm
  #445  
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
Our relationship with the other inner planets is interesting anyway. At some point all 3 are closest to us (Venus passes closest, but on average Mercury stays closer longer). They have all been known since antiquity and all are generally visible, though Mercury is elusive.

But Venus is the most prominent, always there at sunset, providing some constancy to our evenings.
Does always mean every day of the year ? I don't think I've ever seen Mercury.
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Old Jul 26th 2021, 6:38 pm
  #446  
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by Shard
Does always mean every day of the year ? I don't think I've ever seen Mercury.
Generally, yes. Sometimes sunrise, sometimes sunset.

I've never seen Mercury either that I know of, but it's very close to the sun so it's hard to see unless you're looking in exactly the right place at the right time. I'm sure I've seen it without realizing though.
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Old Jan 5th 2022, 7:33 pm
  #447  
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

James Webb Telescope. Looking forward to looking back.
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Old Jan 5th 2022, 8:35 pm
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by Shard
James Webb Telescope. Looking forward to looking back.
Is that the one recently launched on its way to a million mile from earth positioning?
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Old Jan 5th 2022, 10:07 pm
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by ddsrph
Is that the one recently launched on its way to a million mile from earth positioning?
Yes it is ! First images expected in June I believe.
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Old Jan 6th 2022, 12:07 am
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Default Re: Spaceships and astronomy

Originally Posted by Shard
Yes it is ! First images expected in June I believe.
I also look forward to what is going to be learned from this mission.
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