So, I'm new...
Dec 6th 2008, 10:41 am
#226
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,253
Re: So, I'm new...
Thanks teacosy 
My visa is valid until 31.12.2012 so we've got 4 years ahead of us. After that, I'll be trying to get into Grad school to do a Masters and a phd - which should hopefully give us another 6 years or so. After that...who knows? If Mr Obama changes the law regarding same-sex relationships then you can pretty much bet your backside that we'll be taking whatever ceremony is required. However, it's not at all likely that he'll make such a controversial change in his first term, but there is a slight possibility that things might change in his second term - assuming he's re-elected.
I think, for the most part, when people think about gay rights they don't realise that the lack of gay rights means that some couples are fundamentally unable to be together. It's easy to focus on things like healthcare, employment rights, rights as a next-of-kin etc etc and these things are ALL very important but don't affect a gay couple's ability to live together. But for an international couple, the lack of recognition of gay rights means, quite simply, that we can't be together in the US as a couple. And we're not the only ones. One of OH's best friends, also from the UK and in a same-sex relationship with a USC is facing similar problems - she's finished her phd and is now facing the possibility of having to uproot (after 7 years in the US) and come back to England without her partner.
I hate to get on a soap-box about this, and I know that any kind of immigration issue is hard work and stressful, but for gay couples it REALLY sucks. We basically don't exist.
Anyway, that's my morning mini-rant over and done with
I'm waiting for a potential tenant to come view my house, then for a friend to drive down from Leeds for a few hours, then dinner tonight with my lovely neighbours. And at some stage in all this I have to continue with the packing...
My visa is valid until 31.12.2012 so we've got 4 years ahead of us. After that, I'll be trying to get into Grad school to do a Masters and a phd - which should hopefully give us another 6 years or so. After that...who knows? If Mr Obama changes the law regarding same-sex relationships then you can pretty much bet your backside that we'll be taking whatever ceremony is required. However, it's not at all likely that he'll make such a controversial change in his first term, but there is a slight possibility that things might change in his second term - assuming he's re-elected.
I think, for the most part, when people think about gay rights they don't realise that the lack of gay rights means that some couples are fundamentally unable to be together. It's easy to focus on things like healthcare, employment rights, rights as a next-of-kin etc etc and these things are ALL very important but don't affect a gay couple's ability to live together. But for an international couple, the lack of recognition of gay rights means, quite simply, that we can't be together in the US as a couple. And we're not the only ones. One of OH's best friends, also from the UK and in a same-sex relationship with a USC is facing similar problems - she's finished her phd and is now facing the possibility of having to uproot (after 7 years in the US) and come back to England without her partner.
I hate to get on a soap-box about this, and I know that any kind of immigration issue is hard work and stressful, but for gay couples it REALLY sucks. We basically don't exist.
Anyway, that's my morning mini-rant over and done with
I'm waiting for a potential tenant to come view my house, then for a friend to drive down from Leeds for a few hours, then dinner tonight with my lovely neighbours. And at some stage in all this I have to continue with the packing...Unfortunately, I wouldn't hold my breath for Obama to change the law fast, if ever. Anything's possible, but... He doesn't appear to really be in favor of gay marriage from what I've read - seems to think it should be up to each state. On the encouraging side, he appears to support civil unions.
I don't get too upset that a gay couple who aren't in some form of legal relationship (marriage, civil union, etc.) can't live here together in the US. Because neither can a straight couple in the same circumstance.
What does apall me is that the gay couple doesn't have a means to enter a legally recognized relationship. That is horrendously unfair. Whether the lawmakers should allow marrige (and horrify a bunch of the religious folk) or just civil unions, I don't know. But they certainly should allow civil unions.
Personally, btw, I'm all for gay/lesbian couples being allowed to marry. The only reason I'm vauge on definitely saying they *should* be allowed to here, is that I do believe in the will of the majority in this country - and I'm not sure what the majority wants.
But allowing at least a civil union - and immigration - I can't agree with you more, it is very unfair.
Dec 6th 2008, 10:46 am
#227
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: So, I'm new...
Wow - that's a lot of school
Unfortunately, I wouldn't hold my breath for Obama to change the law fast, if ever. Anything's possible, but... He doesn't appear to really be in favor of gay marriage from what I've read - seems to think it should be up to each state. On the encouraging side, he appears to support civil unions.
I don't get too upset that a gay couple who aren't in some form of legal relationship (marriage, civil union, etc.) can't live here together in the US. Because neither can a straight couple in the same circumstance.
What does apall me is that the gay couple doesn't have a means to enter a legally recognized relationship. That is horrendously unfair. Whether the lawmakers should allow marrige (and horrify a bunch of the religious folk) or just civil unions, I don't know. But they certainly should allow civil unions.
Personally, btw, I'm all for gay/lesbian couples being allowed to marry. The only reason I'm vauge on definitely saying they *should* be allowed to here, is that I do believe in the will of the majority in this country - and I'm not sure what the majority wants.
But allowing at least a civil union - and immigration - I can't agree with you more, it is very unfair.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't hold my breath for Obama to change the law fast, if ever. Anything's possible, but... He doesn't appear to really be in favor of gay marriage from what I've read - seems to think it should be up to each state. On the encouraging side, he appears to support civil unions.
I don't get too upset that a gay couple who aren't in some form of legal relationship (marriage, civil union, etc.) can't live here together in the US. Because neither can a straight couple in the same circumstance.
What does apall me is that the gay couple doesn't have a means to enter a legally recognized relationship. That is horrendously unfair. Whether the lawmakers should allow marrige (and horrify a bunch of the religious folk) or just civil unions, I don't know. But they certainly should allow civil unions.
Personally, btw, I'm all for gay/lesbian couples being allowed to marry. The only reason I'm vauge on definitely saying they *should* be allowed to here, is that I do believe in the will of the majority in this country - and I'm not sure what the majority wants.
But allowing at least a civil union - and immigration - I can't agree with you more, it is very unfair.
Dec 6th 2008, 10:53 am
#228
Flaky Red-headed Goodness
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Lexington, KY (ex-Derbyshire)
Posts: 126
Re: So, I'm new...
Wow - that's a lot of school
Unfortunately, I wouldn't hold my breath for Obama to change the law fast, if ever. Anything's possible, but... He doesn't appear to really be in favor of gay marriage from what I've read - seems to think it should be up to each state. On the encouraging side, he appears to support civil unions.
I don't get too upset that a gay couple who aren't in some form of legal relationship (marriage, civil union, etc.) can't live here together in the US. Because neither can a straight couple in the same circumstance.
What does apall me is that the gay couple doesn't have a means to enter a legally recognized relationship. That is horrendously unfair. Whether the lawmakers should allow marrige (and horrify a bunch of the religious folk) or just civil unions, I don't know. But they certainly should allow civil unions.
Personally, btw, I'm all for gay/lesbian couples being allowed to marry. The only reason I'm vauge on definitely saying they *should* be allowed to here, is that I do believe in the will of the majority in this country - and I'm not sure what the majority wants.
But allowing at least a civil union - and immigration - I can't agree with you more, it is very unfair.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't hold my breath for Obama to change the law fast, if ever. Anything's possible, but... He doesn't appear to really be in favor of gay marriage from what I've read - seems to think it should be up to each state. On the encouraging side, he appears to support civil unions.
I don't get too upset that a gay couple who aren't in some form of legal relationship (marriage, civil union, etc.) can't live here together in the US. Because neither can a straight couple in the same circumstance.
What does apall me is that the gay couple doesn't have a means to enter a legally recognized relationship. That is horrendously unfair. Whether the lawmakers should allow marrige (and horrify a bunch of the religious folk) or just civil unions, I don't know. But they certainly should allow civil unions.
Personally, btw, I'm all for gay/lesbian couples being allowed to marry. The only reason I'm vauge on definitely saying they *should* be allowed to here, is that I do believe in the will of the majority in this country - and I'm not sure what the majority wants.
But allowing at least a civil union - and immigration - I can't agree with you more, it is very unfair.
and personally not something that bothers me. I just want our relationship to be legally recognised so that we can stay together. Having a religious ceremony to do that isn't necessary to me (I'm a witchy type so we do our own thing anyway 
).And I agree with you about couples not being allowed to live together if they're not in some kind of legally recognised long-term relationship - like a marriage or civil union. I don't have a problem with the fact that gay couples can't because, as you say, neither can straight couples. There's no inequality in the law in that arena, we're all equally disadvantaged unless we're prepared to make a committment as a couple. Which, I happen to think, is a reasonable enough criteria for immigration. OH and I would love nothing more than to make a legal and public declaration of our committment to each other. Here in the UK we can do that BUT if we were to do that, it would cause horrific problems to my getting any kind of visa - I'd have to declare that I was in a civil union, hence it would cast questions around my reasons for being in the US (obviously) which would probably mean that a student visa would be declined - this is despite the fact that the same union isn't recognised over there, a case of the immigration authorities having their cake and eating it. Of course, we could just make life easier and live in the UK but for a whole variety of family reasons, the US is where we need to be. I'm lucky - my family is large and all in good health and doing well. OH has several family members in declining health and is pretty much the lynchpin in terms of their care. She can't leave them.
Cindy - it's an unfair situation. If they fill all other criteria for immigration, then why should the fact that they're in a same-sex relationship be a barrier to them being together? *sigh*
Last edited by SallyCinnamon; Dec 6th 2008 at 11:03 am. Reason: Forgot to add something!
Dec 6th 2008, 11:23 am
#229
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: So, I'm new...
Tracy - it's not so much the marriage, but as you say it's the lack of a legally recognised relationship. I'd be happy with civil union, something akin to the process we have here in the UK. We could enter into a civil union over here, and that would be enough for immigration purposes (providing all the other necessary hoops were jumped through, of course). That would at least go some way to equalising the situation in terms of legalities. The marriage vs. civil union debate is one for another day and personally not something that bothers me. I just want our relationship to be legally recognised so that we can stay together. Having a religious ceremony to do that isn't necessary to me (I'm a witchy type so we do our own thing anyway ).
And I agree with you about couples not being allowed to live together if they're not in some kind of legally recognised long-term relationship - like a marriage or civil union. I don't have a problem with the fact that gay couples can't because, as you say, neither can straight couples. There's no inequality in the law in that arena, we're all equally disadvantaged unless we're prepared to make a committment as a couple. Which, I happen to think, is a reasonable enough criteria for immigration. OH and I would love nothing more than to make a legal and public declaration of our committment to each other. Here in the UK we can do that BUT if we were to do that, it would cause horrific problems to my getting any kind of visa - I'd have to declare that I was in a civil union, hence it would cast questions around my reasons for being in the US (obviously) which would probably mean that a student visa would be declined - this is despite the fact that the same union isn't recognised over there, a case of the immigration authorities having their cake and eating it. Of course, we could just make life easier and live in the UK but for a whole variety of family reasons, the US is where we need to be. I'm lucky - my family is large and all in good health and doing well. OH has several family members in declining health and is pretty much the lynchpin in terms of their care. She can't leave them.
Cindy - it's an unfair situation. If they fill all other criteria for immigration, then why should the fact that they're in a same-sex relationship be a barrier to them being together? *sigh*
and personally not something that bothers me. I just want our relationship to be legally recognised so that we can stay together. Having a religious ceremony to do that isn't necessary to me (I'm a witchy type so we do our own thing anyway ).And I agree with you about couples not being allowed to live together if they're not in some kind of legally recognised long-term relationship - like a marriage or civil union. I don't have a problem with the fact that gay couples can't because, as you say, neither can straight couples. There's no inequality in the law in that arena, we're all equally disadvantaged unless we're prepared to make a committment as a couple. Which, I happen to think, is a reasonable enough criteria for immigration. OH and I would love nothing more than to make a legal and public declaration of our committment to each other. Here in the UK we can do that BUT if we were to do that, it would cause horrific problems to my getting any kind of visa - I'd have to declare that I was in a civil union, hence it would cast questions around my reasons for being in the US (obviously) which would probably mean that a student visa would be declined - this is despite the fact that the same union isn't recognised over there, a case of the immigration authorities having their cake and eating it. Of course, we could just make life easier and live in the UK but for a whole variety of family reasons, the US is where we need to be. I'm lucky - my family is large and all in good health and doing well. OH has several family members in declining health and is pretty much the lynchpin in terms of their care. She can't leave them.
Cindy - it's an unfair situation. If they fill all other criteria for immigration, then why should the fact that they're in a same-sex relationship be a barrier to them being together? *sigh*
Dec 6th 2008, 11:28 am
#230
Flaky Red-headed Goodness
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Lexington, KY (ex-Derbyshire)
Posts: 126
Re: So, I'm new...
The legal problem, I suppose, comes from the need to define 'committment' - which tends only to be defined in terms of marriage or civil union. But are OH and I any less committed than any married couple? We've spent literally thousands on flights, we speak every day on the phone for hours, we've been together for over two years, I wear a band on my finger that she bought for me, she wears a matching one. We define ourselves as a committed couple. If anyone wanted to examine the nitty-gritty of our relationship they would see very clearly that we are just about as committed as it's possible to be and, dare I say it, far more committed than some couples who don't see marriage as a committment, just as a big party (that's certainly NOT directed to anyone here, merely a general social comment). But that's not enough to allow us to be together legally.
Edited to add: Oh my goodness, I'm getting on a soap-box now. Will someone help me down before I get all un-necessary? I don't normally speak out like this and I'm terrified of offending someone, but clearly it's a subject very close to my heart.
Dec 6th 2008, 12:07 pm
#231
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: So, I'm new...
My sentiments exactly.
The legal problem, I suppose, comes from the need to define 'committment' - which tends only to be defined in terms of marriage or civil union. But are OH and I any less committed than any married couple? We've spent literally thousands on flights, we speak every day on the phone for hours, we've been together for over two years, I wear a band on my finger that she bought for me, she wears a matching one. We define ourselves as a committed couple. If anyone wanted to examine the nitty-gritty of our relationship they would see very clearly that we are just about as committed as it's possible to be and, dare I say it, far more committed than some couples who don't see marriage as a committment, just as a big party (that's certainly NOT directed to anyone here, merely a general social comment). But that's not enough to allow us to be together legally.
Edited to add: Oh my goodness, I'm getting on a soap-box now. Will someone help me down before I get all un-necessary? I don't normally speak out like this and I'm terrified of offending someone, but clearly it's a subject very close to my heart.
The legal problem, I suppose, comes from the need to define 'committment' - which tends only to be defined in terms of marriage or civil union. But are OH and I any less committed than any married couple? We've spent literally thousands on flights, we speak every day on the phone for hours, we've been together for over two years, I wear a band on my finger that she bought for me, she wears a matching one. We define ourselves as a committed couple. If anyone wanted to examine the nitty-gritty of our relationship they would see very clearly that we are just about as committed as it's possible to be and, dare I say it, far more committed than some couples who don't see marriage as a committment, just as a big party (that's certainly NOT directed to anyone here, merely a general social comment). But that's not enough to allow us to be together legally.
Edited to add: Oh my goodness, I'm getting on a soap-box now. Will someone help me down before I get all un-necessary? I don't normally speak out like this and I'm terrified of offending someone, but clearly it's a subject very close to my heart.
Ah Miss Sally, if you are speaking from the heart-THAT is your truth and that is enough,
Dec 6th 2008, 12:14 pm
#232
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,253
Re: So, I'm new...
My sentiments exactly.
The legal problem, I suppose, comes from the need to define 'committment' - which tends only to be defined in terms of marriage or civil union. But are OH and I any less committed than any married couple? We've spent literally thousands on flights, we speak every day on the phone for hours, we've been together for over two years, I wear a band on my finger that she bought for me, she wears a matching one. We define ourselves as a committed couple. If anyone wanted to examine the nitty-gritty of our relationship they would see very clearly that we are just about as committed as it's possible to be and, dare I say it, far more committed than some couples who don't see marriage as a committment, just as a big party (that's certainly NOT directed to anyone here, merely a general social comment). But that's not enough to allow us to be together legally.
Edited to add: Oh my goodness, I'm getting on a soap-box now. Will someone help me down before I get all un-necessary? I don't normally speak out like this and I'm terrified of offending someone, but clearly it's a subject very close to my heart.
The legal problem, I suppose, comes from the need to define 'committment' - which tends only to be defined in terms of marriage or civil union. But are OH and I any less committed than any married couple? We've spent literally thousands on flights, we speak every day on the phone for hours, we've been together for over two years, I wear a band on my finger that she bought for me, she wears a matching one. We define ourselves as a committed couple. If anyone wanted to examine the nitty-gritty of our relationship they would see very clearly that we are just about as committed as it's possible to be and, dare I say it, far more committed than some couples who don't see marriage as a committment, just as a big party (that's certainly NOT directed to anyone here, merely a general social comment). But that's not enough to allow us to be together legally.
Edited to add: Oh my goodness, I'm getting on a soap-box now. Will someone help me down before I get all un-necessary? I don't normally speak out like this and I'm terrified of offending someone, but clearly it's a subject very close to my heart.
Good heavens, don't be afraid of offending anyone! If they're offended by this - it's entirely their problem, and you'd be so better off without them!
Of COURSE it's a subject very cloe to your heart. My word, I can't say it's one that affects my life directly - but even so - I'm feeling so outraged for persons such as yourself. I can' hardly imagine how you must feel about it.
Dec 6th 2008, 12:37 pm
#233
Flaky Red-headed Goodness
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Lexington, KY (ex-Derbyshire)
Posts: 126
Re: So, I'm new...
Thanks SO much
For the vast majority of people, immigration isn't something that springs to mind when you think of gay rights. Or vice versa. I, for one, didn't even consider these issues even as recently as five years ago. How life can change, huh?
It's so lovely to be able to speak openly about these things and even bringing awareness to other people is a step in the right direction.
This place rocks
For the vast majority of people, immigration isn't something that springs to mind when you think of gay rights. Or vice versa. I, for one, didn't even consider these issues even as recently as five years ago. How life can change, huh?
It's so lovely to be able to speak openly about these things and even bringing awareness to other people is a step in the right direction.
This place rocks
Dec 6th 2008, 1:17 pm
#234
lush
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Maine - the "Deep South" of the Northeast
Posts: 5,004
Dec 6th 2008, 2:22 pm
#235
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,253
Re: So, I'm new...
Thanks SO much
For the vast majority of people, immigration isn't something that springs to mind when you think of gay rights. Or vice versa. I, for one, didn't even consider these issues even as recently as five years ago. How life can change, huh?
It's so lovely to be able to speak openly about these things and even bringing awareness to other people is a step in the right direction.
This place rocks
For the vast majority of people, immigration isn't something that springs to mind when you think of gay rights. Or vice versa. I, for one, didn't even consider these issues even as recently as five years ago. How life can change, huh?
It's so lovely to be able to speak openly about these things and even bringing awareness to other people is a step in the right direction.
This place rocks
I can't say I'm extremely educated about gay/lesbian issues - but I'm happy to discuss things whenever you like - everyone needs places to talk, and everyone can always learn something new
Again, I'm sorry our country makes it so difficult for you.
Dec 6th 2008, 3:48 pm
#236
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: So, I'm new...
I am totally against this sort of thing it goes against my whole being ..
of course when everybody else is against it ...I will be for it ...
Dec 6th 2008, 4:54 pm
#237
Banned
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Tampa Bay area.
Posts: 1,429
Re: So, I'm new...
The country (and BE) needs more people like you.
Dec 6th 2008, 4:55 pm
#238
Banned
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Tampa Bay area.
Posts: 1,429
Re: So, I'm new...
So, when you putting on the Grinch uniform and parading around Brooksville then? It'll soon be time.